Rutgers Post Game Thread

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Only need a 8 man rotation and I think you should have a minimum of 2 or 3 starters on the court at all times.

What team is playing an 8 man rotation by choice?

[5fouls]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yup, and I've addressed that as well. We consistently got great looks all night. Kopp and Stewart weren't take poor, contested shots. 

We got them phenomenal looks all night, they need to make them and they didn't. 

It's as simple as that. 

Rutgers went to zone and gave us those threes to take away our inside play and XJ's dribble penetration.  Us shooting 3's is what they wanted.  If we hit some, great.  But, we didnt until the very end.

We let Rutgers dictate how the game was played.  That should not happen in Assembly Hall.  Find a different way to beat the zone when shots arent falling.  We didnt do that.

Edited March 3, 2022 by 5fouls

[Zuckerkorn]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So you would do what? 

There is no real option with this roster, apparently.  Unlike some on here, I'm confident Woodson sees what we fail at and knows we have to correct it to be good.  The question is: what is he going to do.  I've beaten the drum repeatedly about the shortcomings of this roster.

[rico]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

What team is playing an 8 man rotation by choice?

A lot of teams play an 8 man rotation by choice barring foul trouble.

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So you would do what? 

We're acting like the position Race was in was so easy too. 

Is he going to pull up from 3 or penentrate? If he penetrates, I need to keep him in front but if I foul it's over. 

There's 10 seconds left, so I need to pressure him a bit up court to kill time, but I also can't let him go by me and get a head of steam, but I also can't foul him while trying to make him work up the court. 

It's an incredibly difficult position for anyone. The kid hit a great shot. You tip your cap. 

[btownqb]

Throughout the season there has been no correlation between RT and TJD mins and winning. 

TJD played 37 mins @ Iowa ---- loss

38 mins @ OSU ---- loss

39 mins @ NW--- loss

45 mins @ Syracuse ---- loss

RT played 40 mins @ OSU--- loss 

36 mins vs. NW--- loss

45 mins vs. Syracuse--- loss 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, rico said:

A lot of teams play an 8 man rotation by choice barring foul trouble.

That's not how we want to play though. 

[Cbp4IU]

1 hour ago, rico said:

Or we need guys that are capable of hitting wide open 3s?

Need guys who want to be Gym Rats and hold players accountable if they’re not wanting to put in the extra work. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Rutgers went to zone and gave us those threes to take away our inside play and XJ's dribble penetration.  Us shooting 3's is what they wanted.  If we hit some, great.  But, we didnt until the very end.

We let Rutgers dictate how the game was played.  That should not happen in Assembly Hall.  Find a different way to beat the zone when shots arent falling.  We didnt do that.

I don’t  know what to tell you. Outside of a few stagnant possessions, which Rutgers had on their end too, we got great looks. 

We got the ball to the high post and the low block. We forced them to collapse on TJD and then kicked out to great, to decent shooters for wide open looks and we just didn't make them. 

What's the solution? Politely ask them to not play zone? 

They played zone. Our zone offense got really good looks for the most part. We misses those good looks. End of story. 

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Rutgers went to zone and gave us those threes to take away our inside play and XJ's dribble penetration.  Us shooting 3's is what they wanted.  If we hit some, great.  But, we didnt until the very end.

We let Rutgers dictate how the game was played.  That should not happen in Assembly Hall.  Find a different way to beat the zone when shots arent falling.  We didnt do that.

I think RU went zone so we didn't get their dudes in foul trouble. 

And the bold is exactly why we need better players. We don't have multiple ways to win, especially when guys like TG aren't playing. He's about the only "mix up" we've got. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by btownqb

[tdhoosier]

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Ahh.. see you said he subbed 4 in and out at the same time. Which he doesn't. Not that 4 subs (even though Stewart is a starter) were on the court together, even though they practice with each other? 

Either way. He does not sub 4 guys in, at the same time, regularly. 

You can make your point, but you can without twisting this around and put words in other people's mouths. 

First, you accused me of not wanting any substitutions, When i clearly said we need to substitute, but should rotate through the substitution in a meaningful way. 

And now you're trying to get fancy with the term 'mass substitution' when the point Scott made is that you shouldn't have your worst starter and 4 bench players on the floor at the same time. I'm sorry, but this should not be a controversial criticism. You're acting like everybody is crazy. Woody is wasting crucial minutes of the game with an effective line-up on the floor. If you want to put it on the players then fine; it doesn't make them anymore effective as a group. And it won't mean they'll be effective the next game. But heck, let's continue to go with the plan and ignore the elephant. in the room. This group of players have never played well on the floor together - except maybe once in early January. 1 out of 10 times is not a recipe for success. 

The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expect different results. 

Anyway, I respect your opinion. It's not my job to change your mind and vice versa. I'm beating a dead horse again. Something I tend to do on the board. 

[KoB2011]

7 minutes ago, rico said:

A lot of teams play an 8 man rotation by choice barring foul trouble.

If it's a lot it should be easy to give an example of a really good team that does it. So, who does it? 

[Zuckerkorn]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We're acting like the position Race was in was so easy too. 

Is he going to pull up from 3 or penentrate? If he penetrates, I need to keep him in front but if I foul it's over. 

There's 10 seconds left, so I need to pressure him a bit up court to kill time, but I also can't let him go by me and get a head of steam, but I also can't foul him while trying to make him work up the court. 

It's an incredibly difficult position for anyone. The kid hit a great shot. You tip your cap. 

Precisely.  Race has been trmendous for us but guarding aguy like Harper isn't his forte.  Harper was practically scoring at will on him all game.  My only question is what if Geronimo was on him?  Would JG's quikness have slowed him down or his jumping ability been able to affect his jumpers?  Then again, Harper may have still eaten him alive.

Finally, as someone else pointed out, there were times RT really looked exhausted.

[rico]

Just now, KoB2011 said:

If it's a lot it should be easy to give an example of a really good team that does it. So, who does it? 

Purdue.

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Purdue.

Purdue has 10 players averaging double digit minutes.... 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Purdue.

Edey, Hunter, Thompson, Morton, Ivey, Williams, Furst, GIllis, Sasha... there is 9 right there. 

[Zuckerkorn]

4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

.....

They played zone. Our zone offense got really good looks for the most part. We misses those good looks. End of story. 

Truthfully, it seems like a good strategy against us (playing zone).  You take away our strength (TJD) and make us beat you from outside - something we've shown no consistent ability to do.

[BGleas]

5 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Precisely.  Race has been trmendous for us but guarding aguy like Harper isn't his forte.  Harper was practically scoring at will on him all game.  My only question is what if Geronimo was on him?  Would JG's quikness have slowed him down or his jumping ability been able to affect his jumpers?  Then again, Harper may have still eaten him alive.

Finally, as someone else pointed out, there were times RT really looked exhausted.

Yeah, maybe Geronimo does better on him. Maybe Geronimo fouls a ton due to inexperience. Who knows?

In regards to the last possession getting Geronimo in wasn't really possible, and again does the coach trust him not to do something stupid (like foul) in that situation compared to Race? I doubt it. 

[IU Scott]

17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

What team is playing an 8 man rotation by choice?

Duke

[btownqb]

4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

You can make your point, but you can without twisting this around and put words in other people's mouths. 

First, you accused me of not wanting any substitutions, When i clearly said we need to substitute, but should rotate through the substitution in a meaningful way. 

And now you're trying to get fancy with the term 'mass substitution' when the point Scott made is that you shouldn't have your worst starter and 4 bench players on the floor at the same time. I'm sorry, but this should not be a controversial criticism. You're acting like everybody is crazy. Woody is wasting crucial minutes of the game with an effective line-up on the floor. If you want to put it on the players then fine; it doesn't make them anymore effective as a group. And it won't mean they'll be effective the next game. But heck, let's continue to go with the plan and ignore the elephant. in the room. This group of players have never played well on the floor together - except maybe once in early January. 1 out of 10 times is not a recipe for success. 

The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expect different results. 

Anyway, I respect your opinion. It's not my job to change your mind and vice versa. I'm beating a dead horse again. Something I tend to do on the board. 

I don't agree with you. I don't know how more plainly I can say it. I didn't put any words in Scott's mouth. He said we subbed in mass, which... we don't. We don't sub 4 dudes in at once, literally what he said. 

and "everybody" no... I only think the ones with subbing complaints are crazy. I just don't understand why the conversation isn't more about those specific players and their lack of execution, rather then worry about subbing patterns on a team that's missing an important piece and isn't anywhere perfect to begin with. 

Yes, that is nuts to me. I'm sorry, it is. 

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Truthfully, it seems like a good strategy against us (playing zone).  You take away our strength (TJD) and make us beat you from outside - something we've shown no consistent ability to do.

EXACTLY what I said. 

[btownqb]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Duke

Well find us a way to get Duke level players and I will agree with you in a heartbeat. 

[tdhoosier]

2 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Truthfully, it seems like a good strategy against us (playing zone).  You take away our strength (TJD) and make us beat you from outside - something we've shown no consistent ability to do.

Especially when the game gets tight. When the game gets tight, our shooters get tight. 

[AxnJxn]

I hope those saying we just got beat by a guy hitting a big shot realize that we were gifted a 5 point play right before that. I'm more concerned with why we were in that position in the first place, why guys who are supposed to be really good shooters continue to fail, why we continue to fall apart down the stretch of games. To be fair, they had some mediocre FT shooters knock down shots, but we shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. 

I'm not overly concerned for the future. We've seen improvement from last year - remember those 10 minute stretches of no scoring that we would see regularly? Those seem to be gone. The pack line disaster? Gone. We have decent talent with the younger guys, have solid recruits coming, and Woody seems to be able to work the transfer portal to get talent. We play excellent defense for the most part, so it's really just a matter of changing the culture, and as some have noted, getting guys in here that can knock down big shots. I believe in Woody to get that done, but I also think we missed a huge opportunity last night. Huge.

[Hoosier4Life53]

9 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I know no one agrees with me but things like this hurts recruiting and the quality of coaching candidates we get when there are openings at IU.

Totally agree, especially about recruiting. All of these young men have been star athletes most of their lives beginning with youth leagues, school ball and then AAU, and competing and WINNING matters. For the handful of truly elite ones playing in the Tournament is important, but their primary goal is the NBA, and they want to go to a school that puts them in the best position to do that, and results matter. Trust me because I speak from experience, the average fan has no idea how hard these kids work and the type of dedication/training it takes to be considered a top prospect.