Ohio State Post Game Thread

[Dawg Bawls]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Trey finally shows the kind of senior leadership we need... Both on the road and at home...

And I think having Anthony, who's building up even more cred with his younger teammates by not only talking the talk, but walking the walk, out there makes Galloway a better player... The chemistry is definitely there...

I know this game will be downplayed, and no one is stamping it as a signature win, but any road victory in this league is valuable, especially coming from 18 back... Even the most virulent critic has to acknowledge that these kids fought and didn't give up... 

Leal might be the lug nuts this team needs

[Dawg Bawls]

21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Nobody has said we have turned the corner but just enjoy a win. The players actually showed some emotion and passion which was great to see.

Perfect

[Dawg Bawls]

1 hour ago, Hoosier987 said:

His shooting is desperately needed.

Maybe CMW is looking at the roster like a NBA roster not a college...size Vs experience..etc,,, idk

[Euroclydon]

I want to give the team credit for fighting till the end. Any conf road win is a big plus. I also want to be realistic.

They played much better in the second half after a horrible first half. But in the bigger picture it was a big comeback against a poor team that's reeling. It is what it is.

If IU gets smacked this weekend by 20+ nobody will remember last night's win. As much as I want them to turn the corner, it seems unlikely they will suddenly learn to guard the three or shoot better. 

I'm hoping they solve the puzzle but reality says there are more bad games coming their way than good games. More Ls than Ws. 

[Hoosier4Life53]

19 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

I want to give the team credit for fighting till the end. Any conf road win is a big plus. I also want to be realistic.

They played much better in the second half after a horrible first half. But in the bigger picture it was a big comeback against a poor team that's reeling. It is what it is.

If IU gets smacked this weekend by 20+ nobody will remember last night's win. As much as I want them to turn the corner, it seems unlikely they will suddenly learn to guard the three or shoot better. 

I'm hoping they solve the puzzle but reality says there are more bad games coming their way than good games. More Ls than Ws. 

Oh, such is the life of a Hoosier fan.

[NCHoosier32]

47 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said:

Leal might be the lug nuts this team needs

careful with the terminology.  XJ could be lurking.  

[NCHoosier32]

i had to watch the game when i got home from my son's game.  luckily we made it home in time to rewind and watch last night.  as you can imagine with my not so optimistic takes, i was disgusted for most of the game.  i never stop watching though and am glad i didn't!  that said, i am obviously happy about the win.  i definitely thought it would be another road loss.  that said, we beat one of the worst teams in the conference who had lost 7 of their last 8 in a big comeback victory by 3.  while i am happy today, let's not get carried away and say all is good, we are going to make the tourney, Woodson is a great coach, etc.  it is what it is.  the loss Sat will hurt my soul, but if by chance we could win the next two at home and then get revenge at PSU... then i will be much more impressed and maybe even a tad optimistic!  

[Fkfootball]

Start Leal! Dont ever let X be a starter ever again. Make that guy earn minutes the way he did Leal who is way more deserving. Let Trey play PG.

[Dawg Bawls]

34 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

careful with the terminology.  XJ could be lurking.  

Like Ezal....?!?!?

[Maedhros]

51 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

As much as I want them to turn the corner, it seems unlikely they will suddenly learn to guard the three or shoot better. 

Funny how narratives get formed and stick. In Big Ten play, Indiana is holding teams to just 31% from three, best in the conference. They're shooting 34.4% from three themselves, right in the middle of the pack at eighth in the conference, and a mark would be 162nd nationally, above the median.

 

[Dawg Bawls]

3 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Funny how narratives get formed and stick. In Big Ten play, Indiana is holding teams to just 31% from three, best in the conference. They're shooting 34.4% from three themselves, right in the middle of the pack at eighth in the conference, and a mark would be 162nd nationally, above the median.

 

I wished they shot more 3s... im not saying jack em up, but theres been alot of pass ups

[Euroclydon]

7 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Funny how narratives get formed and stick. In Big Ten play, Indiana is holding teams to just 31% from three, best in the conference. They're shooting 34.4% from three themselves, right in the middle of the pack at eighth in the conference, and a mark would be 162nd nationally, above the median.

 

Averages can lie. We've watched them against tournament level teams get lit up from three. The B1G has a small number of quality teams and a bunch looking up at the NIT, as it stands today. I wouldn't put a lot of value on that average. Just rewatch the games against the better teams. It's ugly. 

[Maedhros]

1 minute ago, Dawg Bawls said:

I wished they shot more 3s... im not saying jack em up, but theres been alot of pass ups

That's definitely still true.

At 15.75 attempts per game in conference play, we're firmly last, more than two full attempts behind the next lowest team. Which is surprisingly Iowa. Ten of the fourteen B10 teams are above 20 per game, with Nebraska leading with 24.8 per.

[Dawg Bawls]

6 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

That's definitely still true.

At 15.75 attempts per game in conference play, we're firmly last, more than two full attempts behind the next lowest team. Which is surprisingly Iowa. Ten of the fourteen B10 teams are above 20 per game, with Nebraska leading with 24.8 per.

20 at the least thats making 5-6 ...15-18 points how many games is that a poss W or close

Edited February 7 by Dawg Bawls

[HoosierDPU95]

2 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said:

20 at the least thats making 5-6 ...15-18 points how many games is that a poss W or close

you would need to subtract the number of 2 pointers we typically would make but not take by taking 5-6 more 3's. Don't know what that would be but I'm pretty sure the "15-18 points" goes way down given how efficient IU is in the paint.

[Dawg Bawls]

17 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

you would need to subtract the number of 2 pointers we typically would make but not take by taking 5-6 more 3's. Don't know what that would be but I'm pretty sure the "15-18 points" goes way down given how efficient IU is in the paint.

Or  subtract missed 2 or turnovers.. or 1 and 1...etc

[Dawg Bawls]

3 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

This is the biggest issue with the coaching staff. When 2 pointers are going in at a 55% clip then shooting 43% from 3 won't do much from an exchange standpoint. Additionally, I think they fear going into a gigantic deficit because our defense is bad so they would rather take 2s.

Here's the Wisconsin Game. If we start adding one 3 point shot and taking away one 2 point shot Indiana would need to  take 4 more 3s to increase their point total by 1 point. Not really a good exchange. The biggest issue during this game was our defense. We scored 79 points which was more than enough to win. I do believe taking more 3s will decrease turnovers and provide better spacing for Ware and Malik but our defense is dumb on so many possessions. 

	2 point Percentage		3 Point Percentage
	57.90%	Points From	42.90%	Points From	Point Total
Actual Shots Taken During Game	38	44	14	18	62
	37	43	15	19	62
	36	42	16	21	62
	35	41	17	22	62
	34	39	18	23	63
	33	38	19	24	63
	32	37	20	26	63
	31	36	21	27	63

Dumb Defense...2 beers and a shot to that...

[Drroogh]

Don’t we have some other threads for this?🤷‍♂️

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

Funny how narratives get formed and stick. In Big Ten play, Indiana is holding teams to just 31% from three, best in the conference. They're shooting 34.4% from three themselves, right in the middle of the pack at eighth in the conference, and a mark would be 162nd nationally, above the median.

 

100%. Even with a couple of pretty big stinkers shooting from 3, we are actually 35.7% since the start of December. We just need to shoot more of them IMO. We're at 16.3 attempts per game in that stretch, what if that was 22 and we kept making at the same clip, plus it led to an additional offensive rebound and we score on that 50% of the time? That's 7 more PPG...

Would probably only change a couple outcomes at best, but it also makes a lot of the blowouts closer and we'd be in a much better spot for March.

Either way, would really love to see us play more perimeter oriented these next 5 weeks to see where we end up and can build towards for the future. 

[SawatchHoosier]

48 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

you would need to subtract the number of 2 pointers we typically would make but not take by taking 5-6 more 3's. Don't know what that would be but I'm pretty sure the "15-18 points" goes way down given how efficient IU is in the paint.

Below is a graph of last night's Ohio State Game. I exchanged 3s for 2s at the shooting percentages we had last night. I also increased 3s shot from 13 (how many we took) all the way to 25 (The number Nebraska takes per game the highest in the league). In a vacuum If we took 25 3 point shots at 38.5% clip our overall point total from 3s and 2s increases by 3 points. Turnovers would decrease significantly because the ball wouldn't be in the paint as often. Additionally, the defense would need to adjust leaving Malik and Ware in more 1 on 1 situations increasing the 2 point percentage. The question would be how many free throws would we be taking? We took 31 free throws and hit 21. Would that assumed decrease in free throws be too much to overcome? Lastly, our Point Per Possession in the 1st half was .75 per possession and we were at 1.50 points per possession in the 2nd half. This occurred even with a low percentage of 3 pointers taken. 

Overall, I think the most important factor about the 3 point shot is that it reduces turnovers but most importantly breaks the will of an opponent when they're going in. Malik and Ware's 2 point shots are even more heartbreaking for the opponent because they can't be stopped. I don't believe Ohio State goes up by Double Digits if we took more quality threes and ran plays like the one created for Leal and fast break 3 Leal created for Galloway. I believe more threes would utilize Ware and Malik better allowing their high percentage shots to have a greater affect on the moral of an opponent. 

 

VS. Ohio State	46.5%	Points From 2	38.50%	Points From 3	Point Total
Actual Shots Taken During Game	43	40	13	15	55
Exchanging 2s for 3s	42	39	14	16	55
	41	38	15	17	55
	40	37	16	18	56
	39	36	17	20	56
	38	35	18	21	56
	37	34	19	22	56
	36	33	20	23	57
	35	33	21	24	57
	34	32	22	25	57
	33	31	23	27	57
	32	30	24	28	57
	31	29	25	29	58

 

 

Edited February 7 by SawatchHoosier

[KoB2011]

14 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Below is a graph of last night's Ohio State Game. I exchanged 3s for 2s at the shooting percentages we had last night. I also increased 3s shot from 13 (how many we took) all the way to 25 (The number Nebraska takes per game the highest in the league). In a vacuum If we took 25 3 point shots at 38.5% clip our overall point total from 3s and 2s increases by 3 points. Turnovers would decrease significantly because the ball wouldn't be in the paint as often. Additionally, the defense would need to adjust leaving Malik and Ware in more 1 on 1 situations increasing the 2 point percentage. The question would be how many free throws would we be taking? We took 31 free throws and hit 21. Would that assumed decrease in free throws be too much to overcome? Lastly, our Point Per Possession in the 1st half was .75 per possession and we were at 1.50 points per possession in the 2nd half. This occurred even with a low percentage of 3 pointers taken. 

Overall, I think the most important factor about the 3 point shot is that it reduces turnovers but most importantly breaks the will of an opponent when they're going in. Malik and Ware's 2 point shots are even more heartbreaking for the opponent because they can't be stopped. I don't believe Ohio State goes up by Double Digits if we took more quality threes and ran plays like the one created for Leal and fast break 3 Leal created for Galloway. I believe more threes would utilize Ware and Malik better allowing their high percentage shots to have a greater affect on the moral of an opponent. 

 

VS. Ohio State	46.5%	Points From 2	38.50%	Points From 3	Point Total
Actual Shots Taken During Game	43	40	13	15	55
Exchanging 2s for 3s	42	39	14	16	55
	41	38	15	17	55
	40	37	16	18	56
	39	36	17	20	56
	38	35	18	21	56
	37	34	19	22	56
	36	33	20	23	57
	35	33	21	24	57
	34	32	22	25	57
	33	31	23	27	57
	32	30	24	28	57
	31	29	25	29	58

 

 

Great post! I'd add that we should expect to get more offensive boards with more threes. 

[HoosierDPU95]

17 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Below is a graph of last night's Ohio State Game. I exchanged 3s for 2s at the shooting percentages we had last night. I also increased 3s shot from 13 (how many we took) all the way to 25 (The number Nebraska takes per game the highest in the league). In a vacuum If we took 25 3 point shots at 38.5% clip our overall point total from 3s and 2s increases by 3 points. Turnovers would decrease significantly because the ball wouldn't be in the paint as often. Additionally, the defense would need to adjust leaving Malik and Ware in more 1 on 1 situations increasing the 2 point percentage. The question would be how many free throws would we be taking? We took 31 free throws and hit 21. Would that assumed decrease in free throws be too much to overcome? Lastly, our Point Per Possession in the 1st half was .75 per possession and we were at 1.50 points per possession in the 2nd half. This occurred even with a low percentage of 3 pointers taken. 

Overall, I think the most important factor about the 3 point shot is that it reduces turnovers but most importantly breaks the will of an opponent when they're going in. I don't believe Ohio State goes up by Double Digits if we took more quality threes and ran plays like the one created for Leal and fast break three Leal created for Galloway.I believe more threes would utilize Ware and Malik better allowing their high percentage shots to have a greater affect on the moral of an opponent. 

 

VS. Ohio State	46.5%	Points From 2	38.50%	Points From 3	Point Total
Actual Shots Taken During Game	43	40	13	15	55
Exchanging 2s for 3s	42	39	14	16	55
	41	38	15	17	55
	40	37	16	18	56
	39	36	17	20	56
	38	35	18	21	56
	37	34	19	22	56
	36	33	20	23	57
	35	33	21	24	57
	34	32	22	25	57
	33	31	23	27	57
	32	30	24	28	57
	31	29	25	29	58

 

 

Love it! Agree that there are several other variables at play here. I always chuckle when someone throws out the "basketball is a simple game" quote. Conceptually yes, but the underlying facets are super complex and intertwined.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

[SawatchHoosier]

9 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Great post! I'd add that we should expect to get more offensive boards with more threes. 

Absolutely. Our Offensive rebounding percentage rank is in the low 200s. Last night we had an above average night on the offensive boards and we won!

[HoosierFaithful]

I'm an eternal optimist, but Woody has shown that his teams get better as the year goes on... Could it be...

[SawatchHoosier]

1 minute ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I'm an eternal optimist, but Woody has shown that his teams get better as the year goes on... Could it be...

We scored on the final 23 or our 29 possessions in the 2nd half. The zoom action and pick and rolls with Galloway and Malik were terrific. I know Ohio State sucks but the 2nd half offense was the best we've had all year at 1.50 points per possession. I can't help but wonder if the 2nd half offense were coaching changes, player changes and or both? We stopped putting the ball on the 3 point line and choreographing passes to Ware and Malik. Instead we saw Galloway force the issue with Malik cutting the basket. The Ohio State defense couldn't predictably settle on one side of the basket when Malik and or Ware got the ball in the post.