IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, IU Scott said: you don't have to throw every pitch at full capacity to be a really good pitcher. Then you aren't getting guys out. That's like telling a RB not to run full speed to save his energy. Guys like Verlander don't go half speed early in the game, their arms are simply warming up to get their peak. I'm starting to question your baseball knowledge as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, IU Scott said: you don't have to throw every pitch at full capacity to be a really good pitcher. Also if pitchers did not think they have to strike out everyone and get outs on a couple of pitches then your pitch count would not get so high. That doesn't even make sense. This isn't the small ball era anymore. Teams aren't looking to slap a single, steal 2nd, bunt the runner to third, and hope for a sac fly. That's not the approach to the game with guys throwing 98-99 with swing and miss type stuff. Teams are plating for the long ball because statistics show you aren't going to hit someone like Verlander, Scherzer, Castillo, etc all over the park with any kind of consistency. And it's the same approach with pitching. Most lineups have 6-7 guys who can hit the ball out of the ball park at any given time. Pitchers aren't going to let batters tee off on hitable pitches to try and entice outs. Not in this day in age. Starting pitchers are throwing 5 and 6 innings a game (usually around 100 pitchers) and trying to induce as many swing and misses as they can until they turn the ball over to relievers who also have swing and miss pitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 These guys pitched a lot, and suffered for it... And the story of Steve Dalkowski The second link is one of the most fascinating stories in baseball history...long article, but worth it if you have time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 52 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Ok, let's for a minute say you're David Bell...bear with me... It's a 3-2 lead for the Cubs, bottom of the 6th, Jon Lester pitching, men on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs...Your pitcher spot is due up...Lester is actually better against right handed batters at least average wise...you have a lefty that hits lefties pretty well, but has never faced Lester, and you have a righty that is 0-9 career against Lester with 7 Ks...who would you pick? You're not double switching...this is a simple pinch hitting for your pitcher scenario... Who is my pitcher? If it's Michael Lorenzen, I'm letting him bat. That is something Bell has failed miserably at this year. He's not gotten Lorrenzen enough ABs. In fact he's made countless unnecessary double-switches by treating Lorenzen like a normal relief pitcher when it comes to hitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Then you aren't getting guys out. That's like telling a RB not to run full speed to save his energy. Guys like Verlander don't go half speed early in the game, their arms are simply warming up to get their peak. I'm starting to question your baseball knowledge as well. Verlander is not coming out in games throwing 98 but 93--94 which is normal for him but as the games goes along he gears it up when needed. it is not like he is throwing every pitch the fastest he can but he pacing himself. 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Who is my pitcher? If it's Michael Lorenzen, I'm letting him bat. That is something Bell has failed miserably at this year. He's not gotten Lorrenzen enough ABs. In fact he's made countless unnecessary double-switches by treating Lorenzen like a normal relief pitcher when it comes to hitting. Actually last night When Van Meter came up in the 9th against the lefty i wanted him to use Lorenzen as a Pinch hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: That doesn't even make sense. This isn't the small ball era anymore. Teams aren't looking to slap a single, steal 2nd, bunt the runner to third, and hope for a sac fly. That's not the approach to the game with guys throwing 98-99 with swing and miss type stuff. Teams are plating for the long ball because statistics show you aren't going to hit someone like Verlander, Scherzer, Castillo, etc all over the park with any kind of consistency. And it's the same approach with pitching. Most lineups have 6-7 guys who can hit the ball out of the ball park at any given time. Pitchers aren't going to let batters tee off on hitable pitches to try and entice outs. Not in this day in age. Starting pitchers are throwing 5 and 6 innings a game (usually around 100 pitchers) and trying to induce as many swing and misses as they can until they turn the ball over to relievers who also have swing and miss pitches. Who is talking about giving them hittable pitches but saying they need to learn how to pitch and not just throw as hard as they can. If they learn to take stuff of off their pitches and learn to locate their pitches then you can get hitters out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Who is talking about giving them hittable pitches but saying they need to learn how to pitch and not just throw as hard as they can. If they learn to take stuff of off their pitches and learn to locate their pitches then you can get hitters out. You're telling me pitchers don't locate their pitches today or take anything off? Seeing and trying to hit 98 inside one pitch, with a slider at 88 low and away is probably the toughest thing to do in sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Seeing and trying to hit 98 inside one pitch, with a slider at 88 low and away is probably the toughest thing to do in sports. I don't know about that. That golf ball just sitting there and not moving has perplexed me my whole life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I don't know about that. That golf ball just sitting there and not moving has perplexed me my whole life. It's like my wife when I get back from the course: wife: "How'd you hit em today?" me: "Oh, I hit em alright." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just got done reading the 'shift' marathon over in the KenPom thread. Here's my take on that subject. I despise the shift. It literally takes away from my enjoyment of the game. I do, understand, however, why the shift is used. I just don't like when it is used. Baseball would be a better sport if the rules required that there be at least two infielders on either side of 2nd base. If a team wants to bring in an outfielder as a 5th infielder, i'm okay with that because there are critical game situations that call for that. But, sticking 3 infielders on the first base side of second with no one out in the top of the 3rd inning just because the batter pulls the ball more often than not drives me crazy. Again, I get why it's done, but I wish it would be considered an 'Illegal Formation' like they have in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Just got done reading the 'shift' marathon over in the KenPom thread. Here's my take on that subject. I despise the shift. It literally takes away from my enjoyment of the game. I do, understand, however, why the shift is used. I just don't like when it is used. Baseball would be a better sport if the rules required that there be at least two infielders on either side of 2nd base. If a team wants to bring in an outfielder as a 5th infielder, i'm okay with that because there are critical game situations that call for that. But, sticking 3 infielders on the first base side of second with no one out in the top of the 2nd just because the batter pulls the ball more often than not drives me crazy. Again, I get why it's done, but I wish it would be considered an 'Illegal Formation' like they have in football. I agree with ya on everything...but if the guys could actually bunt the ball the shift would slowly go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Just got done reading the 'shift' marathon over in the KenPom thread. Here's my take on that subject. I despise the shift. It literally takes away from my enjoyment of the game. I do, understand, however, why the shift is used. I just don't like when it is used. Baseball would be a better sport if the rules required that there be at least two infielders on either side of 2nd base. If a team wants to bring in an outfielder as a 5th infielder, i'm okay with that because there are critical game situations that call for that. But, sticking 3 infielders on the first base side of second with no one out in the top of the 3rd inning just because the batter pulls the ball more often than not drives me crazy. Again, I get why it's done, but I wish it would be considered an 'Illegal Formation' like they have in football. Very fair take and one I can accept. I have no problem with someone not liking the shift so long as they understand why shifts happen in the first place and why it is a strategic move. My one counterpoint is this: If a team is going to concede a bunt down the third baseline against a left handed hitter, why not bunt your way on? It's like a DB playing 15 yards off the receiver. If a team is going to concede a 5 yard out or curl, why not take it? I bet if teams did this enough, the shift goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 As far as metrics, the point is moot...they are here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, rico said: I agree with ya on everything...but if the guys could actually bunt the ball the shift would slowly go away. Yep. But when guys like Billy Hamilton can't even lay down a decent bunt, I guess it's too much to expect your cleanup hitter to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Just got done reading the 'shift' marathon over in the KenPom thread. Here's my take on that subject. I despise the shift. It literally takes away from my enjoyment of the game. I do, understand, however, why the shift is used. I just don't like when it is used. Baseball would be a better sport if the rules required that there be at least two infielders on either side of 2nd base. If a team wants to bring in an outfielder as a 5th infielder, i'm okay with that because there are critical game situations that call for that. But, sticking 3 infielders on the first base side of second with no one out in the top of the 3rd inning just because the batter pulls the ball more often than not drives me crazy. Again, I get why it's done, but I wish it would be considered an 'Illegal Formation' like they have in football. I totally agree about the shift and it is similar why the NBA has defensive 3 seconds and not allowing a big just to stand in the lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 This is supposed to be a failed bunt GIF, but I can't get it to work, nor can I delete the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 O'Grady has been optioned to AAA to make room for Galvis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: O'Grady has been optioned to AAA to make room for Galvis... Not a big surprise. Perazza and Farmer likely to see the biggest hits to their playing time though. I also wonder if we'll see Dietrich or Casalli return from the IL before the roster expands. I'm guessing no, because there really isn't another easy roster decision out there to make. Two weeks ago, the Reds were probably thinking that would be Aquino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Not a big surprise. Perazza and Farmer likely to see the biggest hits to their playing time though. I also wonder if we'll see Dietrich or Casalli return from the IL before the roster expands. I'm guessing no, because there really isn't another easy roster decision out there to make. Two weeks ago, the Reds were probably thinking that would be Aquino. Last I saw VanMeter was starting at 2B and Farmer at C tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Back to the metrics for a tad... https://armchairallamericans.com/davey-johnson-and-the-birth-of-sabermetrics/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, rico said: Back to the metrics for a tad... https://armchairallamericans.com/davey-johnson-and-the-birth-of-sabermetrics/ Between that and being the looney bin ward manager for the 86 Mets, he should be in the Orlando Hall of Fame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, rico said: Last I saw VanMeter was starting at 2B and Farmer at C tonight. I think Farmer is the designated catcher for his best friend in Alex Wood. Also with Farmer being the only backup catcher it would be hard to play him at any other position right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I think Farmer is the designated catcher for his best friend in Alex Wood. Also with Farmer being the only backup catcher it would be hard to play him at any other position right now. He played second base on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I think Farmer is the designated catcher for his best friend in Alex Wood. Also with Farmer being the only backup catcher it would be hard to play him at any other position right now. Farmer played 2B Sunday with Tucker behind the dish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, rico said: Farmer played 2B Sunday with Tucker behind the dish. Played second base last week on the night he pitched as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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