kyhoosier29 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: Hunter was sick and that is why he did not play last night I don’t care. He shouldn’t have dressed then. Everybody doesn’t feel well this time of the year, so unless you on your death bed give it a go. If he comes off the floor throwing up, etc fine, but he looked alive to me so give it a go. I’d be sick too if I made that turnover against Maryland late in the game, which helped blow the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: Upon what evidence for this team does a 3 guard lineup fix this issue. We don't have 3 guards on the roster we trust for 30 mins a game. At some point the "3 guard lineup" is a myth for this team, as pointed out by 5fouls in another thread. We don't have the personnel. Without a grad transfer, we don't next year either. I am not advocating for a 3 guard line-up whatsoever. Our front court is as good as any in the country. But our inability to shoot from the outside prevents us from truly utilizing our advantage we have in the front court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Just want to echo the above bolded statement. And surprised at those who are freaking out. A.) Penn State is a better team than us and ranked in the top 25. I went into this game expecting to lose. B.) This IU team is a fringe tournament team. They have been all year. C.) Fringe tournament teams are inconsistent - but with more better nights than bad nights. I guess my question to those flipping their lid is: Did you not think our offense, specifically our guards, were going to have another off night ON THE ROAD? If so, what lead you to believe that would be the case? 2 decent performances in a row at home? ....This is just going to be one of those seasons. We are going to lose to better teams on the road - that's the way it works in the B1G. Sometimes our offense will be clicking and we'll lose by a little and other times we'll get ran off the court. And maybe they'll pull out a surprise victory or two out of their collective butt. great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, kyhoosier29 said: I don’t care. He shouldn’t have dressed then. Everybody doesn’t feel well this time of the year, so unless you on your death bed give it a go. If he comes off the floor throwing up, etc fine, but he looked alive to me so give it a go. I’d be sick too if I made that turnover against Maryland late in the game, which helped blow the game. Well they said he had to go to the locker room 2 or 3 times during the first half of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: Perhaps, but I am not comfortable pinning my expectations on seeing marked improvement through "subtraction" and the addition of 3 rather unheralded freshmen. Well it’s a risk I agree but Leal and Galloway ( Galloway from what I’ve seen Leal from what I’ve read) especially are more of the “hard work /winners mentality /get what I can out of my talent “ type recruits as opposed to the ones with superior physical skill. I’m not saying I know enough about them to vouch but I am intrigued by their inclusion because I think it’s a step towards what I have advocated for the last couple years which is that it might be time to try kids who aren’t consensus top 100 players but who have a history of winning and a chip on their shoulders that we won’t ever have to worry about their effort level of commitment to improve. Could be a bust but it might be a nice four year foundation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Your opinion, but I think part of your appraisal is in defense of your initial position that we should start 3 guards. I personally think that would be a disaster. We we're one of the best rebounding teams in the B10 playing the way we are with 3 bigs. Subsitute a guard in there and that goes away. Rewatch the MSU game. That's the way we CAN play with a big lineup...in that game.. Frontcourt: 16-31 Backcourt: 10-26 You say spacing is the issue, but with the 2 games I cited, it didn't seem to affect the FG percentages of our bigs... But what I see you advocating is putting MORE of the game into our guards hands...I'd much rather see Devonte or Al feeding the post over headlong drives to the basket or 3s as the shot clock expires... I personally don't think that's a recipe for winning with the group we have... I agree with you that we have post strength ( our interior percentages all year have been impressive ) . I agree with him that guard play is what drives the modern game. I think the rub is that YOU are correct we should use an inside out approach and HE is correct we need better guard play to make that work. The answer isn’t going three guards ...the answer is having different guards ( other than rob ) because ours aren’t currently capable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 My question to the ones who think Archie is not the guy and he should be replaced, who is out there that is realistic that is far better than we have now. This mainly goes to the poster from last night who has not been here before but was trolling last night. To me if IU was stupid enough to fire a coach after 3 years then 3 years from now we will be having the same discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: My question to the ones who think Archie is not the guy and he should be replaced, who is out there that is realistic that is far better than we have now. This mainly goes to the poster from last night who has not been here before but was trolling last night. To me if IU was stupid enough to fire a coach after 3 years then 3 years from now we will be having the same discussion. I actually think Archie can be the guy. Just going to take one more year of eliminating some of the weight we have and given the injuries/health/whatever status for a few of the guys he's being somewhat forced into play a couple guys he normally wouldn't. With that said I'm about ready to put to bed my angst from last night and start focusing in on Ohio St. Love road early games. Sometimes the home crowd isn't rolling and we can sneak in and get a win before a must needed 7 days off before Purdue comes to town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: Listen Scott, the days of pure student athlete college athletics are over. Its a multibillion dollar industry. Blame the fans I guess because it wouldn't be without viewership. But to pump in this kind of money to an industry and expect highly motivated individuals to operate within loose, unregulated parameters set forth by an organization with no enforcement leverage is never going to happen. Until someone gets more teeth behind the NCAA's bite, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, (insert program here) will continue to get away with nearly anything. Unfortunately true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: My question to the ones who think Archie is not the guy and he should be replaced, who is out there that is realistic that is far better than we have now. This mainly goes to the poster from last night who has not been here before but was trolling last night. To me if IU was stupid enough to fire a coach after 3 years then 3 years from now we will be having the same discussion. I think Archie is a good coach. I don't want him fired. I want IU to "play ball". I want us to get higher level talent. A backcourt made up of 3* Senior, 4* Junior, and a 3* Sophomore is not going to make us more competitive next year either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: . With that said I'm about ready to put to bed my angst from last night and start focusing in on Ohio St. Love road early games. Sometimes the home crowd isn't rolling and we can sneak in and get a win before a must needed 7 days off before Purdue comes to town. Not feeling too confident about the bucknuts game..... Plus 7 days off will make this team rusty. We've already have seen how this team does with a long time off between games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, CincyHoosier said: I think Archie is a good coach. I don't want him fired. I want IU to "play ball". I want us to get higher level talent. A backcourt made up of 3* Senior, 4* Junior, and a 3* Sophomore is not going to make us more competitive next year either. I guess I am just different because I want us to build our roster like Villanova and UVA has the last few years. They get high 4 star guys who will be there for 3 to 4 years and you can buld a long term program that way. even UNC when they have been good have built it with payers ranked mainly 20-70 range and has done well with it. This year they are doing bad because they started recruiting more one and done players who left a gap in their roster. I never want IU to build their roster like UK and Duke where they have a different roster every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Your opinion, but I think part of your appraisal is in defense of your initial position that we should start 3 guards. I personally think that would be a disaster. We we're one of the best rebounding teams in the B10 playing the way we are with 3 bigs. Subsitute a guard in there and that goes away. Rewatch the MSU game. That's the way we CAN play with a big lineup...in that game.. Frontcourt: 16-31 Backcourt: 10-26 You say spacing is the issue, but with the 2 games I cited, it didn't seem to affect the FG percentages of our bigs... But what I see you advocating is putting MORE of the game into our guards hands...I'd much rather see Devonte or Al feeding the post over headlong drives to the basket or 3s as the shot clock expires... I personally don't think that's a recipe for winning with the group we have... No, I (and Gleas for that matter) have repeatedly said we need actual wing play -- and as Hunter started to elevate his game, including his end of game play in grabbing the rebound and icing the two free throw, we won. I've also said, which I guess you're not really noticing, that when Rob started to get healthy and is out there consistently running the floor, we have played better and can win with the three big lineup including Justin. What are you actually saying here, that we don't need spacing because the bigs hit some shots?? You seem to keep coming back to the idea that we can just go big and win. That's a complete failure of a strategy. You have to have good guard / wing play, you can't just try to pound it inside, that's extremely one dimensional and easily countered. We agree what killed us in this game was our guard play, that's obvious. The answer is not to just pound it inside, the answer is to spread the floor with better guard and wing play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said: I agree with you that we have post strength ( our interior percentages all year have been impressive ) . I agree with him that guard play is what drives the modern game. I think the rub is that YOU are correct we should use an inside out approach and HE is correct we need better guard play to make that work. The answer isn’t going three guards ...the answer is having different guards ( other than rob ) because ours aren’t currently capable I do think we have capable guards but man they are inconsistent and man Rob is so key to our play. I'm absolutely for an inside-out approach and always have been -- but not a pound-it-inside approach. The inside-out game, which we have at times run fairly well, creates spacing. A pound it inside game creates nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: I think Archie is a good coach. I don't want him fired. I want IU to "play ball". I want us to get higher level talent. A backcourt made up of 3* Senior, 4* Junior, and a 3* Sophomore is not going to make us more competitive next year either. “Play ball” absolutely ...but change “higher level talent “ To “guys who know how to play and win”’ and I’m totally on board...rmk went after the best talent but he made sure they were intelligent, hard working , and winners. We have put a premium on talent the last 15 years and it hasn’t gotten us to where we want to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I guess I am just different because I want us to build our roster like Villanova and UVA has the last few years. They get high 4 star guys who will be there for 3 to 4 years and you can buld a long term program that way. even UNC when they have been good have built it with payers ranked mainly 20-70 range and has done well with it. This year they are doing bad because they started recruiting more one and done players who left a gap in their roster. I never want IU to build their roster like UK and Duke where they have a different roster every year. We don't have high 4* guards though and don't have any in the pipeline either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I guess I am just different because I want us to build our roster like Villanova and UVA has the last few years. They get high 4 star guys who will be there for 3 to 4 years and you can buld a long term program that way. even UNC when they have been good have built it with payers ranked mainly 20-70 range and has done well with it. This year they are doing bad because they started recruiting more one and done players who left a gap in their roster. I never want IU to build their roster like UK and Duke where they have a different roster every year. Totally agreed and look at what butler has done with kids from 100-200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said: “Play ball” absolutely ...but change “higher level talent “ To “guys who know how to play and win”’ and I’m totally on board...rmk went after the best talent but he made sure they were intelligent, hard working , and winners. We have put a premium on talent the last 15 years and it hasn’t gotten us to where we want to be Is that mutually exclusive? Look no further than TJD for the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said: We don't have high 4* guards though and don't have any in the pipeline either. I want talent don’t get me wrong im just saying you can find a lot of 2 and 3 star players that have been program staples because of their drive and iq and you can find lots of 4 and even 5 star flame outs ....I think we need consistency as much as anything right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: Is that mutually exclusive? Look no further than TJD for the answer. Oh I agree there ...tjd has exceeded my wildest expectations ...you are right a 5 star can even punch above his weight class I’m just saying event spent a decade and a half making sure we fill up with 4 stars and the occasional 5 and it’s got us mixed results ....id just prefer we stop focusing on the number of stars and say 1. Can the kid play 2. Can the kid win 3. Will he give 110 ( would be a bonus if whoever it is can shoot 😂) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said: I want talent don’t get me wrong im just saying you can find a lot of 2 and 3 star players that have been program staples because of their drive and iq and you can find lots of 4 and even 5 star flame outs ....I think we need consistency as much as anything right now I think you are very reasonable and I don't want to argue because I think we have the same aspirations for our team. I just don't think 2 and 3 start guards win championships, either Big 10 or NCAA. Finding the mid to high range 4*s with those characteristics is what IU needs. Those guys are currently being gobbled up by the programs we've discussed. IU needs to figure out how to win some of these battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: I do think we have capable guards but man they are inconsistent and man Rob is so key to our play. I'm absolutely for an inside-out approach and always have been -- but not a pound-it-inside approach. The inside-out game, which we have at times run fairly well, creates spacing. A pound it inside game creates nothing. I agree with you about rob ...you and I will always respectfully Agree to disagree On our remaining guards ....and we are definitely on same page for inside out ...when our guards were shooting decently against MSU it gave our bigs room to operate and pass to each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosier_exotics Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 46 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Kind of sickening what sports has come to with a lot of fans with the thought process of win at any cost attitude. I think the main reason we even see cheating besides money is the pressure coaches gets from fans to win right away. If coaches did not feel the pressure right away from ban bases and alumni and they know they had time to rebuild then maybe we would see a lot less unethical practices. We even see this attitude in the pros because you see coaches being fired after a year or two because they did not win quick enough. Its all a business Scott... its money driven, whether we like it or not. Winning = $$$$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said: I think you are very reasonable and I don't want to argue because I think we have the same aspirations for our team. I just don't think 2 and 3 start guards win championships, either Big 10 or NCAA. Finding the mid to high range 4*s with those characteristics is what IU needs. Those guys are currently being gobbled up by the programs we've discussed. IU needs to figure out how to win some of these battles. Same with you and ...so you know ...my biggest disagreements are often with the people closest to me ...I disagree for a living but I can do so while still enjoying and respecting the other person and I appreciate you can do the same ! I’m actually on the same page with you !! In fact give me a five star if he is as described ...I’ll take the fours all day long I guess my main point is better described as this : id rather have a 2 or 3 star with a high motor, dependable shooting, and high iq as opposed to a four star if the person is ball dominant and has a questionable motor ...does that make mor sense ? I do think we want mostly the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, IU Scott said: My question to the ones who think Archie is not the guy and he should be replaced, who is out there that is realistic that is far better than we have now. This mainly goes to the poster from last night who has not been here before but was trolling last night. To me if IU was stupid enough to fire a coach after 3 years then 3 years from now we will be having the same discussion. If your defense for not making a change in coaching is that we can’t do better, when we’re still seeing the same issues this year that we saw in year one, and are once again likely looking at being a bubble team, then we’re in deep trouble. I think CAM should get at least one more year, if not two, but the idea that we can’t do better with another coach just shows how far away this program is from where most of us think we should be. I mean, forget blue blood. We’re currently not even a top 25 program. Is that acceptable to anyone that has followed this program more than a few years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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