CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said: Same with you and ...so you know ...my biggest disagreements are often with the people closest to me ...I disagree for a living but I can do so while still enjoying and respecting the other person and I appreciate you can do the same ! I’m actually on the same page with you !! In fact give me a five star if he is as described ...I’ll take the fours all day long I guess my main point is better described as this : id rather have a 2 or 3 star with a high motor, dependable shooting, and high iq as opposed to a four star if the person is ball dominant and has a questionable motor ...does that make mor sense ? I do think we want mostly the same thing Agree totally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Way too many "crystal ball" projections for a post game thread as usual. It was a bad loss. Let's fix what we got in the here and now. Too many going all Nostradamus around here. Same s&*t, different day I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: We don't have high 4* guards though and don't have any in the pipeline either. Where did I say that I like our roster right now but stating that is how I hope Archie builds his roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: Where did I say that I like our roster right now but stating that is how I hope Archie builds his roster. Now's the time to build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: If your defense for not making a change in coaching is that we can’t do better, when we’re still seeing the same issues this year that we saw in year one, and are once again likely looking at being a bubble team, then we’re in deep trouble. I think CAM should get at least one more year, if not two, but the idea that we can’t do better with another coach just shows how far away this program is from where most of us think we should be. I mean, forget blue blood. We’re currently not even a top 25 program. Is that acceptable to anyone that has followed this program more than a few years? I love a five year window ...gives Any coach security and time to have his system in place and thats when fair evaluation can be made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Fitting that this picture popped up on my Timehop app today, hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, rico said: Way too many "crystal ball" projections for a post game thread as usual. It was a bad loss. Let's fix what we got in the here and now. Too many going all Nostradamus around here. Same s&*t, different day I suppose. I think its because we as fans thought (wrongly) this team had figured something out after NW. Then we play our worst basketball game of the season 2/3rds of the way through it which, to me, is very disappointing. So I think I've finally let my mind move past this season because we just don't have the roster to compete at a high level away from home. Maybe just getting Jerome back in will be the ticket, IDK, just not too optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: If your defense for not making a change in coaching is that we can’t do better, when we’re still seeing the same issues this year that we saw in year one, and are once again likely looking at being a bubble team, then we’re in deep trouble. I think CAM should get at least one more year, if not two, but the idea that we can’t do better with another coach just shows how far away this program is from where most of us think we should be. I mean, forget blue blood. We’re currently not even a top 25 program. Is that acceptable to anyone that has followed this program more than a few years? I just think some think if we have an opening we will get some big name coach to leave their top job to come to IU which will not happen. If we make a change it will be for another up and coming mid major coach like Archie who may or may not be the right guy. also look at a program like UCLA and it is not like they are hiring big time coaches when they have there openings. I just don't see big time coaches leaving for other opening today because they seem to be happy staying where they are at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: Now's the time to build it. He is building it and I think Geronimo will surprise and he is top 100 player and I think Galloway is a fringe top 100 player who will help with his aggressiveness. He is after a lot of top players in the 2021 class and it appears we have a good shot at some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 so... let me preface with, i am not convinced that CAM is or ins't the guy yet. i'll have my opinion formed around this time next season. let me also say that i want more than anything to win the next game. every game! but... i'm sticking to my prediction, we'll lose the next game (road game) and people will be absolutely out of their minds (already starting after last night). then we'll beat Purdue at home and everyone will say we have figured things out and will be a 7 seed in the NCAA. then do we beat Iowa at The Hall? that will be make or break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, NCHoosier32 said: so... let me preface with, i am not convinced that CAM is or ins't the guy yet. i'll have my opinion formed around this time next season. let me also say that i want more than anything to win the next game. every game! but... i'm sticking to my prediction, we'll lose the next game (road game) and people will be absolutely out of their minds (already starting after last night). then we'll beat Purdue at home and everyone will say we have figured things out and will be a 7 seed in the NCAA. then do we beat Iowa at The Hall? that will be make or break. Hold serve the rest of the way and we’re in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, NCHoosier32 said: so... let me preface with, i am not convinced that CAM is or ins't the guy yet. i'll have my opinion formed around this time next season. let me also say that i want more than anything to win the next game. every game! but... i'm sticking to my prediction, we'll lose the next game (road game) and people will be absolutely out of their minds (already starting after last night). then we'll beat Purdue at home and everyone will say we have figured things out and will be a 7 seed in the NCAA. then do we beat Iowa at The Hall? that will be make or break. At this point the prediction should be win all home games, lose all road games. There will probably be one or two surprises, which could drive it either way. 10-10 in conference is progress. 8-12 would feel disappointing. 12-8 would be incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 47 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: We don't have high 4* guards though and don't have any in the pipeline either. Completely agree. The issue with IU's backcourt is talent. IU has 4 guards on the roster, according to 24/7 not a single one of them was rated in the top 130 of their high school class. Not a single one. Two of them weren't even top 150 and one was rated 200+. Everyone talks about how Green has 'all of the talent in the world', but there's a reason he was rated 197 in his high school class. There's a reason Al Durham was rated 230th in his high school class. This is a recruiting issue. Archie needs to find a way to begin locking down multiple highly rated (20-80ish) guards and wings and keep a pipeline of them coming. For everyone citing Villanova and Virginia, that was their model , and that's what CincyHoosier and I are saying. Look at Nova, their championship runs were centered around Archiediancano (57th), Ochefu (49th), Hart (79th), Kris Jenkins (76th), Booth (75), Bridges (81), Brunson (22), and Spellman (20). Virginia built their run around Guy (37), Jerome (44), Hunter (91) and Diakite (32). Right now IU has a core (guys averaging 15+ mpg) of Green (197), Durham (230), Smith (78), Phinisee (135), TJD (30), Brunk (107) and Franklin (151). There are two guys there that fit the "top 80ish", stay 2-4 years bill and not a single guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 45 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: No, I (and Gleas for that matter) have repeatedly said we need actual wing play -- and as Hunter started to elevate his game, including his end of game play in grabbing the rebound and icing the two free throw, we won. I've also said, which I guess you're not really noticing, that when Rob started to get healthy and is out there consistently running the floor, we have played better and can win with the three big lineup including Justin. What are you actually saying here, that we don't need spacing because the bigs hit some shots?? You seem to keep coming back to the idea that we can just go big and win. That's a complete failure of a strategy. You have to have good guard / wing play, you can't just try to pound it inside, that's extremely one dimensional and easily countered. We agree what killed us in this game was our guard play, that's obvious. The answer is not to just pound it inside, the answer is to spread the floor with better guard and wing play. I don't think I said anything of the sort. Statistics bear out that we're most effective and efficient when we work the ball inside and our bigs are getting the bevy of the shots. That's indisputable. And with different personnel or the personnel we have with more experience (particularly Franklin and Hunter) I would tend to agree with your thinking. But, if I'm reading you right, you think we have "capable" guards...I'd say we have one capable guard who has been nursing nagging injuries, two guards who are wildly inconsistent and can lose you a game just as much as they can win one for you, and a freshman... Archie has to play the hand he's been dealt, and all the hypotheticals any of us come up with isn't going to change that. I'll stand by what I said...for this team to be successful we need to do the same things our coach says in his pressers... Get our bigs touches Rebound Defend Value the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Nail hits head BGleas. My biggest issue with Archie is recruiting. He needs to make massive improvements in that area to have any chance of surviving here long term. A home run 2021 class is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, BGleas said: Completely agree. The issue with IU's backcourt is talent. IU has 4 guards on the roster, according to 24/7 not a single one of them was rated in the top 130 of their high school class. Not a single one. Two of them weren't even top 150 and one was rated 200+. Everyone talks about how Green has 'all of the talent in the world', but there's a reason he was rated 197 in his high school class. There's a reason Al Durham was rated 230th in his high school class. This is a recruiting issue. Archie needs to find a way to begin locking down multiple highly rated (20-80ish) guards and wings and keep a pipeline of them coming. For everyone citing Villanova and Virginia, that was their model , and that's what CincyHoosier and I are saying. Look at Nova, their championship runs were centered around Archiediancano (57th), Ochefu (49th), Hart (79th), Kris Jenkins (76th), Booth (75), Bridges (81), Brunson (22), and Spellman (20). Virginia built their run around Guy (37), Jerome (44), Hunter (91) and Diakite (32). Right now IU has a core (guys averaging 15+ mpg) of Green (197), Durham (230), Smith (78), Phinisee (135), TJD (30), Brunk (107) and Franklin (151). There are two guys there that fit the "top 80ish", stay 2-4 years bill and not a single guard. Not saying I want to compare to Rutgers but they are a 1/2 out of first place with no player ranked higher than 156 in their class. Nobody is saying that UVA or Villanova did not have higly ranked players but they were not built on one and done players either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 IMO, Hunter has only had a couple decent games. Everyone is crowning him the game changer after one good game. Not great, not world beating, but good. Is he getting better, it seems so, but i am not ready to say we win this game with him in there. We also didn't have anyone foul out so foul trouble was there but just continue to play hard. Play better. Play smarter. TJD did just fine so i am not too concerned with DD and Brunk and even Smith playing the 4. And why we don't put Smith at the 4 i will never know. Super athletic and is a rebounding machine. Stands at the top of key or on the wing way to much for a guy who doesn't shoot well. Race would have helped and maybe gave us some energy but still not going to change the outcome of this game. We shot like crap. We missed more shots within 4 feet that ever. Out guards didn't do anything at all. Just one of those games where we just sucked. Plain and simple. Coaching sucked. Substitutions sucked. Shooting sucked. TO's sucked. Defense mostly sucked. Energy sucked. TJD is a stud. We have had a couple of these games on the road and will probably have more going forward. I have accepted that we are just really not all that good unless we are at home. Go Hoosiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: Not saying I want to compare to Rutgers but they are a 1/2 out of first place with no player ranked higher than 156 in their class. Nobody is saying that UVA or Villanova did not have higly ranked players but they were not built on one and done players either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: Kind of sickening what sports has come to with a lot of fans with the thought process of win at any cost attitude. I think the main reason we even see cheating besides money is the pressure coaches gets from fans to win right away. If coaches did not feel the pressure right away from ban bases and alumni and they know they had time to rebuild then maybe we would see a lot less unethical practices. We even see this attitude in the pros because you see coaches being fired after a year or two because they did not win quick enough. Some of the biggest cheaters are the most successful coaches in college basketball. Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky...coaches skirt the rules because A)it can be very lucrative for them to do so and B)the penalty is minimal...nobody cares. That FBI scandal broke almost 3 years ago. The programs mentioned in that probe have faced zero consequences, the only people that faced any real penalties were a few assistants and that scandal only focused on 1 of the 3 main shoe companies that are dumping money into programs. Nike and Under Armour were ignored and no one has an interest in looking at them because the NCAA makes a bunch of money off of people breaking their "rules". Almost all rules around the NCAA are comparable to speed limits to me. You only really worry when you get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Nail hits head BGleas. My biggest issue with Archie is recruiting. He needs to make massive improvements in that area to have any chance of surviving here long term. A home run 2021 class is a must. Agreed on 2021 class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Not saying I want to compare to Rutgers but they are a 1/2 out of first place with no player ranked higher than 156 in their class. Nobody is saying that UVA or Villanova did not have higly ranked players but they were not built on one and done players either. Who said Villanova or Virginia was built on one and done players? Absolutely nobody. You're debating against something that hasn't been said. But, they were absolutely built on high level talent. We're saying IU needs to recruit better. IU needs to consistently land players in the 20-80ish range, just like Villanova and UVA. As far as Rutgers (or you can even lump PSU in there), do you want to be a lightening in a bottle, compete once every 20 years program, or a program with long-term, consistent success? Rutgers is catching lightning in a bottle this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said: Agreed on 2021 class So Luke Brown? Just kidding. I had to sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Some of the biggest cheaters are the most successful coaches in college basketball. Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky...coaches skirt the rules because A)it can be very lucrative for them to do so and B)the penalty is minimal...nobody cares. That FBI scandal broke almost 3 years ago. The programs mentioned in that probe have faced zero consequences, the only people that faced any real penalties were a few assistants and that scandal only focused on 1 of the 3 main shoe companies that are dumping money into programs. Nike and Under Armour were ignored and no one has an interest in looking at them because the NCAA makes a bunch of money off of people breaking their "rules". Almost all rules around the NCAA are comparable to speed limits to me. You only really worry when you get caught. I agree but I’m more in favor of changing it to where there ARE consequences than joining the crowd that does it the wrong way ....you know what rmk would have done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BGleas said: Who said Villanova or Virginia was built on one and done players? Absolutely nobody. You're debating against something that hasn't been said. But, they were absolutely built on high level talent. We're saying IU needs to recruit better. IU needs to consistently land players in the 20-80ish range, just like Villanova and UVA. As far as Rutgers (or you can even lump PSU in there), do you want to be a lightening in a bottle, compete once every 20 years program, or a program with long-term, consistent success? Rutgers is catching lightning in a bottle this season. Yes I am because the poste I have been responding to hinted at wanting the very best talent which are one and done players. I just said I wanted to IU to build their program like UVA and Villanova over how UK or Duke does. Like I said I don't want to compare to those programs but it shows that you don't have to have elite talent to compete. Also how many McDonald's AA played in the final four last year because those teams were not built with stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, IUskim said: So Luke Brown? Just kidding. I had to sorry... Lol no it’s ok I deserve it ...that one made me laugh ...I wouldn’t mind him being offered one but but that would be if others turned us down first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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