Coronavirus

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Feeling better and probably can get out of quarantine on Monday

Good man.  Thank God.  

[IUFLA]

11 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

Karl Marx postulated this about 170 yrs ago. Technology and automation will eventually replace most labor.

This is what the Great Reset is all about.  

These stimulus packages and stimulus payments are the beginning of getting us used to universal income.

To the Mods, I feel like I'm responsible and respectful, just bringing a different perspective to what is happening.  

 

Already happening in my career field too...

When I started as an air traffic controller in 1980, every air traffic function required a human being to take action. 

Now, computer systems do 50-60% of the work in an enroute center radar environment (a little less in a terminal radar environment) and it's growing every year. 

The ironic thing is, the job I do now is leading that change. The job I did and loved for 20 years is dying by my own hand...

Edited January 2, 2021 by IUFLA

[tdhoosier]

7 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Already happening in my career field too...

When I started as an air traffic controller in 1980, every air traffic function required a human being to take action. 

Now, computer systems do 50-60% of the work in an enroute center radar environment (a little less in a terminal radar environment) and it's growing every year. 

The ironic thing is, the job I do now is leading that change. The job I did and loved for 20 years is dying by my own hand...

Agree and I think it’s inevitable and I think forcing policies to prevent the inevitable is pointless in the long run. Honestly, it’s only being done to build up political capital. I hate to say it but we transitioned from a manufacturing economy to a service economy long ago, which makes education in science, math, IT, etc. crucial to our future.  

Interesting to think that this pandemic may have sped that up a little bit, forcing people into telecommuting, video conferencing, online shopping, etc.  But I really think it’s a small ripple in the pond when compared to what other technological innovations have done or will do. 5G is going to accelerate this even further because now all that automation is soon going to have a power source. For example, the self driving technology has been there but it needed a stable connection to the network. You can’t have a bunch of self driving trucks on the road with bandwidth lag. As soon as the 5G infrastructure gets developed automated freight will be reality....and it will be happening by the end of this decade. 

It’s only natural to fear the change, but the ability to adapt to the inevitable is so important. Will we have the IT workforce to keep up with the demand (to continue with this example) for self driving trucks....or will we have to outsource it? This is the outsourcing I worry about. I think the jobs will be there, but we will need to have the expertise and education to fill them. 

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

Agree and I think it’s inevitable and I think forcing policies to prevent the inevitable is pointless in the long run. Honestly, it’s only being done to build up political capital. I hate to say it but we transitioned from a manufacturing economy to a service economy long ago, which makes education in science, math, IT, etc. crucial to our future.  

Interesting to think that this pandemic may have sped that up a little bit, forcing people into telecommuting, video conferencing, online shopping, etc.  But I really think it’s a small ripple in the pond when compared to what other technological innovations have done or will do. 5G is going to accelerate this even further because now all that automation is soon going to have a power source. For example, the self driving technology has been there but it needed a stable connection to the network. You can’t have a bunch of self driving trucks on the road with bandwidth lag. As soon as the 5G infrastructure gets developed automated freight will be reality....and it will be happening by the end of this decade. 

It’s only natural to fear the change, but the ability to adapt to the inevitable is so important. Will we have the IT workforce to keep up with the demand (to continue with this example) for self driving trucks....or will we have to outsource it? This is the outsourcing I worry about. I think the jobs will be there, but we will need to have the expertise and education to fill them. 

I agree...the thing I worry about most, though is that this is making us into an anti-social society. The political divides, the lack of person to person interaction, the isolation...I just think how many of my own personal relationships have been a residual of work and school...

I see a lot of rude and boorish behavior when I go out. I was at a mall the other day, and saw a young woman trying to get in a door with a baby carriage. I bet 15 people walked to other doors to avoid her. I opened the door for her, and she did say "thank you." But I made me wonder how people can be like that. 

The lack of sportsmanship in sports bothers me too...use to be when you lost, you manned up, shook their hands, and congratulated them on a good game...now you start a brawl or have a beef...incredible.

I also think you're right about your point about career paths for young people. I think basic computer coding should be taught as early as late in elementary school. 

Kids are smart. They'll figure stuff out... 

Edited January 2, 2021 by IUFLA

[Lostin76]

20 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

Karl Marx postulated this about 170 yrs ago. Technology and automation will eventually replace most labor.

This is what the Great Reset is all about.  

These stimulus packages and stimulus payments are the beginning of getting us used to universal income.

To the Mods, I feel like I'm responsible and respectful, just bringing a different perspective to what is happening.  

 

Not sure what to call it, but things are definitely trending in this way. Am not sure there is a way to go back to manufacturing and producing more locally, but I try like hell to support it. 

Local shops, restaurants, breweries are pretty much all we support. We are lucky enough to not have to go to chains - or even really see them. We try really hard to buy products made in the USA too - for clothing it’s really hard.

Our bed linens (upstate NY) and kitchen bowls/plates (Asheville, NC) are all US made. It sounds corny, but we want the things that we use everyday to mean something AND put money back into a local economy.

For audio gear, my headphones and headphone amp are both made entirely in the US. My phono amp - also made in the US. I’m about to drop a ton of cash on a new tube amp that’s made entirely in the US (Pennsylvania). 

We don’t buy books from Amazon, and instead support our local bookstores. Same with records. 

I also realize that our actions don’t amount to anything, but it’s important to try to spend our money locally or at least in the US.

I know it’s easy to dismiss as Brooklyn hipster-ism but there’s a growing number of local companies that are producing on a fairly large scale out of the old Brooklyn Navy Yard. These are all new companies producing goods and employing local people. It’s damn important, but it needs support (tax breaks) from cities and states to get started. They don’t seem to have an issue handing huge tax breaks to big multinational companies that don’t even pay taxes. But that’s another rant. 

We’ve repeatedly said between the two of us that we are glad that we are not just starting out in the workforce. I’m afraid it will be difficult for today’s kids making their way in this new world. I also think today’s kids will figure it out, but I don’t have a lot of faith in politicians from either party to do the right thing. They seem to only care about amassing personal wealth while they bicker with each other. 

Sorry, that was long, but I feel really strongly about this. 

8 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Already happening in my career field too...

When I started as an air traffic controller in 1980, every air traffic function required a human being to take action. 

Now, computer systems do 50-60% of the work in an enroute center radar environment (a little less in a terminal radar environment) and it's growing every year. 

The ironic thing is, the job I do now is leading that change. The job I did and loved for 20 years is dying by my own hand...

One of the smaller centers in the center I lead is focused on machine learning - I would not want to be a radiologist in the next five to ten years. Their jobs are going to go poof. 

[mrflynn03]

1 hour ago, Lostin76 said:

Not sure what to call it, but things are definitely trending in this way. Am not sure there is a way to go back to manufacturing and producing more locally, but I try like hell to support it. 

Local shops, restaurants, breweries are pretty much all we support. We are lucky enough to not have to go to chains - or even really see them. We try really hard to buy products made in the USA too - for clothing it’s really hard.

Our bed linens (upstate NY) and kitchen bowls/plates (Asheville, NC) are all US made. It sounds corny, but we want the things that we use everyday to mean something AND put money back into a local economy.

For audio gear, my headphones and headphone amp are both made entirely in the US. My phono amp - also made in the US. I’m about to drop a ton of cash on a new tube amp that’s made entirely in the US (Pennsylvania). 

We don’t buy books from Amazon, and instead support our local bookstores. Same with records. 

I also realize that our actions don’t amount to anything, but it’s important to try to spend our money locally or at least in the US.

I know it’s easy to dismiss as Brooklyn hipster-ism but there’s a growing number of local companies that are producing on a fairly large scale out of the old Brooklyn Navy Yard. These are all new companies producing goods and employing local people. It’s damn important, but it needs support (tax breaks) from cities and states to get started. They don’t seem to have an issue handing huge tax breaks to big multinational companies that don’t even pay taxes. But that’s another rant. 

We’ve repeatedly said between the two of us that we are glad that we are not just starting out in the workforce. I’m afraid it will be difficult for today’s kids making their way in this new world. I also think today’s kids will figure it out, but I don’t have a lot of faith in politicians from either party to do the right thing. They seem to only care about amassing personal wealth while they bicker with each other. 

Sorry, that was long, but I feel really strongly about this. 

One of the smaller centers in the center I lead is focused on machine learning - I would not want to be a radiologist in the next five to ten years. Their jobs are going to go poof. 

I'm with you.  We do our best to buy locally and support our local businesses and buy US made products as much as possible.  Bought the wife some kitchenware she wanted for Christmas.  All US made. Agree US made clothes are hard to find. The Duluth clothing company is the only one I can think of. 

Am interested in what the companies in Brooklyn are producing.  

Edited January 3, 2021 by mrflynn03

[HoosierFaithful]

This is a great discussion. We appreciate you all self moderating. We all know when it’s gone too far - and if you’re unsure, just err on the side of keeping that particular thought to yourself. 
 

 

[Leathernecks]

12 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Agree and I think it’s inevitable and I think forcing policies to prevent the inevitable is pointless in the long run. Honestly, it’s only being done to build up political capital. I hate to say it but we transitioned from a manufacturing economy to a service economy long ago, which makes education in science, math, IT, etc. crucial to our future.  

Interesting to think that this pandemic may have sped that up a little bit, forcing people into telecommuting, video conferencing, online shopping, etc.  But I really think it’s a small ripple in the pond when compared to what other technological innovations have done or will do. 5G is going to accelerate this even further because now all that automation is soon going to have a power source. For example, the self driving technology has been there but it needed a stable connection to the network. You can’t have a bunch of self driving trucks on the road with bandwidth lag. As soon as the 5G infrastructure gets developed automated freight will be reality....and it will be happening by the end of this decade. 

It’s only natural to fear the change, but the ability to adapt to the inevitable is so important. Will we have the IT workforce to keep up with the demand (to continue with this example) for self driving trucks....or will we have to outsource it? This is the outsourcing I worry about. I think the jobs will be there, but we will need to have the expertise and education to fill them. 

I hate how so many people try to save outdated jobs.  As a country, we sometimes actively try to prevent ourselves from moving forward.  We see it almost every election.  One person wants to keep something outdated to help save jobs and get votes, and the other person wants to do the same with another job.  I would like to see more programs and initiatives set up to transition people from outdated jobs to new ones.  If your work is going to get taken by a computer, robot, or something similar, offer grants to pay for training towards a new career.  Provide incentives to help people get into STEM careers that can adapt with the changing times.  Start focusing more on moving the country forward instead of just moving the country along.  I think a big part of that starts with our education system which I think is terrible.

I do think one positive from this pandemic is that it has helped show what jobs are vital and what jobs can be transitioned to something else.  I think we've moved forward in a lot of ways, but we still have a long ways to go.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Leathernecks

[mrflynn03]

I fortunately decided to get a STEM degree.

One thing from my childhood that is gone forever.  Video stores. I will never forget getting 48hrs to watch a movie and beat a video game. 

[Leathernecks]

Does anybody know of there's an "expiration date" that you have to get the 2nd shot by? I got the first dose a few days ago, but I know there are issues with distribution of the vaccine. If it takes 6 weeks instead of 4 to get the 2nd dose, is that still fine?

Not that I'm worried about it, just curious more than anything.

[NotIThatLives]

7 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

Does anybody know of there's an "expiration date" that you have to get the 2nd shot by? I got the first dose a few days ago, but I know there are issues with distribution of the vaccine. If it takes 6 weeks instead of 4 to get the 2nd dose, is that still fine?

Not that I'm worried about it, just curious more than anything.

We were told 3 weeks exactly but now hearing they are pushing that back by maybe a week or so so that more people can get the 1st round.  

[Lostin76]

8 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

Does anybody know of there's an "expiration date" that you have to get the 2nd shot by? I got the first dose a few days ago, but I know there are issues with distribution of the vaccine. If it takes 6 weeks instead of 4 to get the 2nd dose, is that still fine?

Not that I'm worried about it, just curious more than anything.

Hey Leather, they were tested for efficacy out to 21 days. Beyond that, they were not really tested or proven to give the 95% protection. Try to get it 19-21 days out if you can and not go longer - if possible. 

I got mine yesterday and they scheduled second dose exactly 19 days later - the 21st. 

[Leathernecks]

41 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Hey Leather, they were tested for efficacy out to 21 days. Beyond that, they were not really tested or proven to give the 95% protection. Try to get it 19-21 days out if you can and not go longer - if possible. 

I got mine yesterday and they scheduled second dose exactly 19 days later - the 21st. 

Thanks guys.  I'm planning on getting mine at 28 days (I got the Moderna shot).  Just curious how that would work if there was some kind of distribution issue.  Maybe a big winter storm and some people couldn't get in to get their 2nd shot.  Or some places maybe got a shipment, used it all, and couldn't get another shipment in time.

Looking into it a little more, it looks like there is some talk about getting as many first shots in as possible instead of reserving doses for the second shot.  I'm seeing that the UK is delaying their second dose so they can give more people the first dose.  They're saying within 12 weeks, but no idea how effective it will be.

[Lostin76]

21 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Thanks guys.  I'm planning on getting mine at 28 days (I got the Moderna shot).  Just curious how that would work if there was some kind of distribution issue.  Maybe a big winter storm and some people couldn't get in to get their 2nd shot.  Or some places maybe got a shipment, used it all, and couldn't get another shipment in time.

Looking into it a little more, it looks like there is some talk about getting as many first shots in as possible instead of reserving doses for the second shot.  I'm seeing that the UK is delaying their second dose so they can give more people the first dose.  They're saying within 12 weeks, but no idea how effective it will be.

Yeah, I’ve been seeing the whole delaying second doses talk. Not really liking that - it’s trying to solve a problem of availability that should have already been taken care of. Countries have had all this time to devise a vaccination strategy. 

And that strategy should not rely on overburdened and understaffed departments of health and CVS/Duane Reade drug stores. 

28 days is good for the Moderna shot. 

[Billingsley99]

On 1/1/2021 at 11:13 PM, IU Scott said:

My brother has gone to get my groceries

I drive close to your area if you need something let me know. That's what we are here for. How are your parents doing?

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I drive close to your area if you need something let me know. That's what we are here for. How are your parents doing?

We all got tested today and we were all negative so everything is looking good, thank you

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

We all got tested today and we were all negative so everything is looking good, thank you

Great news Scott.

[Reacher]

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3960263001?__twitter_impression=true

[Reacher]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:05 AM, Lostin76 said:

Yeah, I’ve been seeing the whole delaying second doses talk. Not really liking that - it’s trying to solve a problem of availability that should have already been taken care of. Countries have had all this time to devise a vaccination strategy. 

And that strategy should not rely on overburdened and understaffed departments of health and CVS/Duane Reade drug stores. 

28 days is good for the Moderna shot. 

The factories are cranking out vaccines in quantities never seen before. Why don't you acknowledge the incredible progress instead of looking to criticize? 

https://www.fastcompany.com/90588372/inside-one-of-the-new-quick-build-factories-making-the-moderna-vaccine

Edited January 5, 2021 by Reacher

[tdhoosier]

5 hours ago, Reacher said:

The factories are cranking out vaccines in quantities never seen before. Why don't you acknowledge the incredible progress instead of looking to criticize? 

https://www.fastcompany.com/90588372/inside-one-of-the-new-quick-build-factories-making-the-moderna-vaccine

It's not the production....it's the distribution. By now 20 million should've been vaccinated and only 4.5 million have. Not sure if we should consider that a success. If we continue at this rate we'll still be arguing on this thread next year about COIVD. I'd personally rather be talking about aged beers with you at that time, and have this mess be in the rearview mirror. 

[HoosierFaithful]

The real failure is leaving this up to understaffed local entities - this needs to be much more of a top-down effort. That seems to be a key area where the two administrations differ in their plans for the immediate future. 

[HoosierFaithful]

Interview with incoming COVID czar: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/04/how-biden-will-try-fix-our-vaccine-rollout-mess/%3foutputType=amp

[Lostin76]

6 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

The real failure is leaving this up to understaffed local entities - this needs to be much more of a top-down effort. That seems to be a key area where the two administrations differ in their plans for the immediate future. 

This is a travesty shaping up to be a tragedy. Massive failure in many countries, not just our own. 

We could have trained and mobilized people to assist in vaccinations, could have created policies and procedures to make sure vaccines are in people’s arms quickly, but no, we just dumped millions of vaccines on DOHs, hospitals, and clinics with no funding, planning, or support. 

We luckily did this in our hospital system (b/c we actually ully plan for things). Our front line staff were quickly vaccinated and now other employees are receiving. 

[Reacher]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

It's not the production....it's the distribution. By now 20 million should've been vaccinated and only 4.5 million have. Not sure if we should consider that a success. If we continue at this rate we'll still be arguing on this thread next year about COIVD. I'd personally rather be talking about aged beers with you at that time, and have this mess be in the rearview mirror. 

I know. My point was that we don't need to delay the second doses. Vaccine makers have done a phenomenal job and the doses are available. I actually saw where the stockpile was now at 35M. 

My wife had her (Pfizer) shot. resulted in some fatigue and 2 days of soreness. As I'll have to wait, I'm hoping to be able to pick which one has the least side effects!

[HoosierFaithful]

For a wide variety of mostly tax-related reasons, the federal government is the only entity with the true capability to respond to a crisis like this. 

to their credit, they have apportioned money (albeit sometimes wildly too late - in this instance, $8b in vaccination distribution funds... only days ago), but this ignores the fact that once getting this money, the local entities using it have to build their organizational capacity during the middle of a trained worker shortage and a pandemic ravaging their own ranks. 
 

crying out for national leadership IMO.