Coronavirus

[5fouls]

23 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

I wouldn’t use something said by Bernie or AOC either if it’s any comfort. I agree with someone being ejected by a car not being counted as a COVID death, but I also agree with @Leathernecksabove about Florida underreporting. 

In the end, it simply does not matter to me the degree that we screwed the pooch on this. We. Screwed. The. Pooch. It’s insane that we as a nation can’t get our shit together and slow this down. But sure, let’s let crazy politicians try to undermine the effects of a deadly pandemic just to prop up our horrible record. 

I totally agree that we, as a country, screwed the pooch on this.  But, if I was a State Senator in Minnesota, I would be questioning some of those deaths as well, and it would not have anything to do with me trying to undermine the effects of the pandemic.  I would do it so that my state was being truthful, and so that the people I serve had ACCURATE information to base their personal decisions on.  

[mrflynn03]

We are on average a low IQ population.  George Carlin was correct.  Garbage in, garbage out. I honestly dont trust anything anymore.  

[Reacher]

30 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

And the people who claim it is up to 40% are the people from crazy websites who checked into the data.  We're supposed to just take their word for it?

Did you know that last year 40% of Purdue’s shots went in by luck? I went back through all their shots, and they banked in a 3, they had one that bounced off a guys hand, and other examples I won't get into.  Just trust me that it's up to 40%.

I have no doubt that there are deaths reported as Covid deaths that shouldn't be. Say it is 10%. That's still over 300,000 deaths.  Even if it was 40%, that's still 200,000 deaths.

Why did the CDC change how deaths are reported this year?

Why is there no consistency? We never had issues surrounding drownings and lung cancer deaths.

As far as those 300k+ deaths, how many were "pulled forward" - people that were terminally ill, people that would have died from the flu or pneumonia? The CDC states only 6% of covid labeled deaths had no other causes listed on their death certificates. 

I think this was a fairly balanced article explaining that- https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/cdc-6-percent-covid-deaths

While it’s true that in 6% of COVID-19-related deaths, COVID-19 was the only diagnosis listed on the death certificate, that’s only part of the picture. 

You add in the fact that total deaths in 2020 appear to be lower than the last several years and it seems obvious to me that heart deaths, respiratory deaths  and much more are being lumped into the Covid category. Convince me otherwise. There are probably a 100 examples in this thread of these mis classifications. 

Why is this important? It creates a false sense of panic and encourages stricter lockdowns which deprive people and businesses of their rights. 

[mrflynn03]

The great reset is the endgame.  Its coming wether you like it or not. 

[Leathernecks]

12 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't necessarily consider an article that questions why a drowning or auto accident victim is considered a Covid death as 'crazy'.  It's honestly no different than questioning Florida if they have been sweeping deaths under the rug.  

I mean, if Weird Al Yankovic said the sky was blue and Albert Einstein said it was orange, should we all automatically accept it was orange based on the reputations of the two people that were saying it?

I don't think anybody has an issue with people questioning some of the deaths. It is when people question a handful of deaths and try to use them to prove a larger point.

[Reacher]

Promising, game changing?, research-

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/tel-aviv-research-999-percent-of-covid-19-germs-dead-in-30-seconds-with-uv-leds-653315

I know we discussed far uv light over the summer. Here is a company making these lights and evidently Columbia Medical center and NASA believe in them. https://faruv.com/

Why are more people not talking about solutions like this and the AstraZeneca antibodies I brought up the other day? 

[5fouls]

Look, my whole rant throughout the whole day in this thread is based on the interview I saw on GMA this morning.  The guest speaker was making a valid point that progress was being made in some parts of the country, and the GMA host wanted nothing to do with that.  He cut the guy off and said, let's talk about California.  Yes, things are awful in parts of California. But, I call BS when 6-7 weeks ago all the media wanted to talk about was how bad it was in the upper Midwest, but now they want nothing to do with it since it's trending away from the media's narrative.  

 

[Leathernecks]

32 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I haven't seen any articles on FL stats

Really?  There's been talk about it since this spring.

[5fouls]

5 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

I don't think anybody has an issue with people questioning some of the deaths. It is when people question a handful of deaths and try to use them to prove a larger point.

I'm not going to speculate on what the State Senator's larger point was, or even if there was one.  But, if we're trying the assign blame on to why this discussion is even happening, that blame has to start and end with whoever reported the car accident and drowning victims as Covid deaths.  Without those intentional acts of deception, this discussion would not be happening.  That's who should be the source of our frustration, not the politician who called it out, regardless of what ulterior motive that politician may or may not have.  

[mrflynn03]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Look, my whole rant throughout the whole day in this thread is based on the interview I saw on GMA this morning.  The guest speaker was making a valid point that progress was being made in some parts of the country, and the GMA host wanted nothing to do with that.  He cut the guy off and said, let's talk about California.  Yes, things are awful in parts of California. But, I call BS when 6-7 weeks ago all the media wanted to talk about was how bad it was in the upper Midwest, but now they want nothing to do with it since it's trending away from the media's narrative.  

 

Its because there is an agenda being pushed. And people will label me a conspiracy theorist but I dont care. You are 100% correct in your criticism of mainstream media. It is all propaganda.  We are in the middle of 5gw warfare and a global socialist takeover.  You would have to have your head in the sand to not see it. Multiple multi trillion dollar stimulus packages with over 60% going to foreign countries? And we get what $600.  The World Economic Foundation using covid to push the Great Reset.  This is real. The New World Order is coming to fruition.  Dont believe me, wait and see. 

Rant over, where is the Tylenol.  

[Reacher]

14 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Really?  There's been talk about it since this spring.

I searched for FL misrepresenting covid deaths. First 50 results under news didn't show anything about misrepresenting in the headlines.

I did find this-

Are you interested in long-term care (nursing home) cases? Florida has that. Antibody reports? They’re there, too. Prison-facility reports? Yep. Every day Florida provides data on positives, negatives, and inconclusive tests, how many tests they’re still waiting on results for, how many cases involved travel or contact with another known case. Florida’s fact-gatherers do statistical work to make sure they don’t include the same person taking multiple tests multiple times in their final report. Florida is the only state that provides open access to the case-line data, which is to say, every single individual case that has tested positive along with vital statistics, resident status, and known travel or contact with another known case. 

Is all that not to be believed? Why?

All the data seems to be here- https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/. They even report Nursing home deaths (over 8000). Seems rather transparent to me. Where are the covid deaths not being reported?

Edited December 29, 2020 by Reacher

[5fouls]

24 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

 

 

14 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I searched for FL misrepresenting covid deaths. First 50 results under news didn't show anything about misrepresenting in the headlines.

 

Your browsing history probably influences what is returned to you.  If I search the same topic, I do get some returns where the numbers are being questioned.  Most of them were from April, early May, but there were some from December as well.

That said, I firmly believe the media is questioning the numbers because of who the Governor is.  As I pointed out earlier, Florida's death rate is significantly higher than California's, but significantly lower than Illinois (I intentionally did not use New York because we have to accept the fact that when they got hit hard, we did not have the info we do now).  

So, in the media's eyes

 - California's leadership did a great job keeping deaths low

- Florida has artificially kept theirs low.

 - Illinois, well they tried just as hard as California, but it just didn't work,

I could look at that information and say that, if Illinois is being honest, then Florida is apparently cheating, but California must REALLY be cheating.

   

Edited December 29, 2020 by 5fouls

[Leathernecks]

13 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Why did the CDC change how deaths are reported this year?

Why is there no consistency? We never had issues surrounding drownings and lung cancer deaths.

As far as those 300k+ deaths, how many were "pulled forward" - people that were terminally ill, people that would have died from the flu or pneumonia? The CDC states only 6% of covid labeled deaths had no other causes listed on their death certificates. 

I think this was a fairly balanced article explaining that- https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/cdc-6-percent-covid-deaths

While it’s true that in 6% of COVID-19-related deaths, COVID-19 was the only diagnosis listed on the death certificate, that’s only part of the picture. 

You add in the fact that total deaths in 2020 appear to be lower than the last several years and it seems obvious to me that heart deaths, respiratory deaths  and much more are being lumped into the Covid category. Convince me otherwise. There are probably a 100 examples in this thread of these mis classifications. 

Why is this important? It creates a false sense of panic and encourages stricter lockdowns which deprive people and businesses of their rights. 

I was thinking that the 94% included people who were obese?  I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading about it at the time.  We're over 40% obese as a country, so that skews that 94% a lot I would guess.

Figuring out where to draw the line in the sand between a Covid death and a non-covid death is really blurry.  I think speeding up someone's death is still a really, really big deal.  I think part of the confusion with how deaths are reported is that this disease is only a year old.  Everybody is trying to figure out things as they go.

Not sure where you're seeing that our death total appears to be lower than last year.  That isn't true.

[Leathernecks]

21 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I searched for FL misrepresenting covid deaths. First 50 results under news didn't show anything about misrepresenting in the headlines.

I did find this-

Are you interested in long-term care (nursing home) cases? Florida has that. Antibody reports? They’re there, too. Prison-facility reports? Yep. Every day Florida provides data on positives, negatives, and inconclusive tests, how many tests they’re still waiting on results for, how many cases involved travel or contact with another known case. Florida’s fact-gatherers do statistical work to make sure they don’t include the same person taking multiple tests multiple times in their final report. Florida is the only state that provides open access to the case-line data, which is to say, every single individual case that has tested positive along with vital statistics, resident status, and known travel or contact with another known case. 

Is all that not to be believed? Why?

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-positivity-rate-florida-explainer-20201014-tfho3kvw7jaabmlv2d7gwndgii-story.html

[Reacher]

9 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

I was thinking that the 94% included people who were obese?  I could be wrong, but I thought I remembered reading about it at the time.  We're over 40% obese as a country, so that skews that 94% a lot I would guess.

Figuring out where to draw the line in the sand between a Covid death and a non-covid death is really blurry.  I think speeding up someone's death is still a really, really big deal.  I think part of the confusion with how deaths are reported is that this disease is only a year old.  Everybody is trying to figure out things as they go.

Not sure where you're seeing that our death total appears to be lower than last year.  That isn't true.

Obesity is no doubt a major contributing factor.

Of course an earlier death is a big deal. We had standards for reporting deaths that worked just fine for years. Again, why were the methods changed?

Politifact is biased. Do some research on that. Here is a start- https://www.allsides.com/news-source/politifact.

For some reason, it is incredibly hard to get total US deaths by year. What I saw previously, was that we were on a favorable trend. There certainly didn't appear to be 10% more deaths this year. If there were an additional 300k+ deaths, that would be the case

[Leathernecks]

44 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm not going to speculate on what the State Senator's larger point was, or even if there was one.  But, if we're trying the assign blame on to why this discussion is even happening, that blame has to start and end with whoever reported the car accident and drowning victims as Covid deaths.  Without those intentional acts of deception, this discussion would not be happening.  That's who should be the source of our frustration, not the politician who called it out, regardless of what ulterior motive that politician may or may not have.  

I agree that it should start with the person who misreported it, but that doesn't completely absolve all the people who have tried using those handful of misreported deaths to prove their point.  Whether that senator did or not, it has happened quite a bit.

[Reacher]

11 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-positivity-rate-florida-explainer-20201014-tfho3kvw7jaabmlv2d7gwndgii-story.html

I read that article. The body doesn't seem to match the headline and in some cases commends the way FL handles it.

[Leathernecks]

1 minute ago, Reacher said:

Obesity is no doubt a major contributing factor.

Of course an earlier death is a big deal. We had standards for reporting deaths that worked just fine for years. Again, why were the methods changed?

Politifact is biased. Do some research on that. Here is a start- https://www.allsides.com/news-source/politifact.

For some reason, it is incredibly hard to get total US deaths by year. What I saw previously, was that we were on a favorable trend. There certainly didn't appear to be 10% more deaths this year. If there were an additional 300k+ deaths, that would be the case

Really?  A left leaning site is being called out as biased?  With the sites that you post things from?  Come on dude.

Here's one you posted.

Alright man, I'm out.  Take care, and I know we'll have better conversations on the football board.  One thing I know we can agree on is kicking some Ole Miss ass this weekend!

[Muckraker]

Not to be that guy who interrupts a good discussion, but about 10 days ago, my grandson caught a nasty cold. A few days later, I started to feel like crap as well. Neither of us had a fever, just the usual symptoms of a bad cold. Last Thursday, my wife started to feel sick, and by Sunday she had a 101 degree fever. She was supposed to return to work this morning but was still running a fever so she went to the Dr. instead. They gave her a covid test and it was negative. We were relieved about the result, but she's not real happy that she probably lost her Holiday pay by being absent.

 

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, Muckraker said:

Not to be that guy who interrupts a good discussion, but about 10 days ago, my grandson caught a nasty cold. A few days later, I started to feel like crap as well. Neither of us had a fever, just the usual symptoms of a bad cold. Last Thursday, my wife started to feel sick, and by Sunday she had a 101 degree fever. She was supposed to return to work this morning but was still running a fever so she went to the Dr. instead. They gave her a covid test and it was negative. We were relieved about the result, but she's not real happy that she probably lost her Holiday pay by being absent.

 

Glad to hear her test was negative.  Hope she feels better soon.

[5fouls]

Whatever we feel about the virus, we can't ignore the fact that it kills people.  And, in some cases it can take huge chunks of a family all at once.  This is s story from Southern Indiana where a pastor, his sister, and his mother all succumbed to the virus this holiday season.  I've seen many of these types of stories over the months, and they are always tragic.  This one caught my eye more than usual because I'm pretty sure I drive by this church every time I head up to Bloomington for a ball game.  I didn't know the family at all, but the church is somewhat of a marker for me when driving to and from a game.

The flu doesn't often take multiple family members at once.  Neither does cancer, heart disease, dementia, etc.  This virus does that far too often.  That's what makes it different, and is one of the main reasons we should respect it despite the enormous amount of misinformation and politicalization of it.

Three Indiana family members die in same week from coronavirus | whas11.com

[Lostin76]

7 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

People, seriously, this is a pussy virus, I have personally known 4 people who tested positive and only 1 had mild symptoms.  Stop buying in to the fear porn. Grow some balls. 

It's been over a year, its bullshit, figure it out. 

EDINBURG, Texas — Days after her Thanksgiving feast was prepared, served and eaten, Maribel Rodriguez tried to muster the will to unpack the tree, lights and decorations of boisterous Christmases past.

Instead she found herself praying a rosary over the three wooden urns containing the ashes of her husband, her mother and an aunt, all of whom had shared a home with her.

“My husband was the one who used to set up the tree and dressed up as Santa every year,” Ms. Rodriguez said in a rural section of Edinburg, Texas, her voice echoing around the hacienda-style home that is emptier now. “I can’t get myself to do it. I end up crying before I touch any of the ornaments.”

Her husband, Domingo Davila, 65, tested positive for the coronavirus in September after undergoing a leg amputation. Within days, Ms. Rodriguez caught the virus, too, along with her mother, Maria Guadalupe Rodriguez, and aunt, Mirthala Ramirez.

Ms. Rodriguez recovered but the others did not. In all, she has lost seven relatives to the virus since the pandemic took hold in the Rio Grande Valley. “This virus didn’t kill me,” she said, “but it sure took my life.”

 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiT2OPkoPPtAhWStVkKHdBcBXIQFjAAegQIBRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2020%2F12%2F24%2Fus%2Fcoronavirus-rio-grande-valley-texas.html&usg=AOvVaw3J1n2h53Zs-Ut3OEK0sk3N

 

[tdhoosier]

13 hours ago, Reacher said:

There certainly didn't appear to be 10% more deaths this year. If there were an additional 300k+ deaths, that would be the case

What information are you basing this belief off of? 

[Reacher]

@Lostin76 , your revered NYT claims Dr Fauci ignored scientific evidence in favor of public opinion polls  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/24/health/herd-immunity-covid-coronavirus.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top

and is being called out by people like this- 

Fauci's "apparent willingness to mislead the public in support of his preferred policy objective should disqualify him from providing public policy advice in any official capacity," said Jay Bhattacharya, professor of medicine at Stanford University.

Do you agree that public opinion should not influence scientific debate and that Dr Fauci should resign?

Who is not being honest here?

[Reacher]

52 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

What information are you basing this belief off of? 

If there were materially more deaths in 2020 than in previous years, it would be a headline on every paper and news show. Would it not? Reports previously linked seemed to indicate deaths were trending lower this year. 

I understand that are lots of factors at play here. Increased deaths from suicides, drug overdoses, murders, lack of cancer screenings and other health care, to name a few and decreased deaths due to fewer auto accidents and other reasons. 

2020 will be over soon enough and eventually accurate data will come out.