Reacher Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) @rogue3542, Yes I read it. Your first paragraph is very clear. People who have not tested positive can be listed as COVID-19 deaths. Dr Birx said the same. I'm not a Dr, but it seems that is looser than normal. I'm not here to argue about media bias. All sources have a bias, IMO. Again, when I Googled for that story, I picked that source since it had the source document embedded. Seems accurate to me. Seems more sites should do the same and people can make up their own mind as to the veracity. It's not some anonymous source being reported. Focus on the facts and not messenger. Edited April 10, 2020 by Reacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 The idea that hospitals are inflating the number of cases to get more money is just conspiracy theory twaddle. I'm ashamed that we actually have politicians of the stripe that would stoop to this and websites that would try to spread such trash AND profit off of it. If anything COVID-19 deaths are actually being under reported. Our leadership is DESPERATELY looking for less COVID-19 deaths. It's all we think about - are there less admissions/deaths, etc? It's the most important thing in the world right now to see cases drop, not rise. We are losing so much money by cancelling elective services and regular appointments that we just want this to flatten out or disappear. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 13 hours ago, Reacher said: MN Senator Dr Scott Jensen actually provided the HHS document linked in this story- https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/huge-mn-senator-dr-reveals-hhs-document-coaching-overcount-covid-19-cases-copy-document-video/ And, according to Senator Jensen, hospitals get paid more for listing patients as COVID-19 and even more if they get put on a ventilator. I hope more of this gets brought up. Please tell me that you aren't a regular reader of "The Gateway Pundit?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosier_exotics Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 By the end of the day, our death count will have reached enough to put a dead body in every seat in assembly hall. Very very sad to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, rogue3542 said: Did you read the directive? It's clearly advising that if a patient dies before being able to be tested, displays symptoms of the virus, and someone with whom he/she had close contact with tests positive, then it's appropriate to ascribe death to the virus. I think that's a pretty appropriate scenario. Both the article and the senator, who both have clear agendas, grossly misrepresent the situation. Furthermore, the tagline of that website is "We report the truth - and leave the Russia collusion fairy tale to the Conspiracy media." It's not even in the same zip code as what I would deem reputable. Back when I was a teacher, I wouldn't have even allowed it as a source on a research paper. It's crystal clear that you can't trust the information coming from that site. Maybe Dr Birx has less of an agenda then a US Senator or some website? In her words, they are being "very liberal" with the definition. Before you attack Greg Price, I swear I have never heard of him before I found his tweet and personally am not even on Twitter. Edited April 10, 2020 by Reacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said: By the end of the day, our death count will have reached enough to put a dead body in every seat in assembly hall. Very very sad to me Very sad indeed. What is striking to me is the disparity in where the cases are. My county has 1000+ cases. The county adjacent to me is much less populated but only has 13. I'm of the belief that we are getting ahead of this. They just dismantled a field hospital in Seattle that was never even used. I think the antibody tests will be a game changer. Hoping to see those available in April. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 This will be something to watch out for- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-09/coronavirus-may-reactivate-in-cured-patients-korean-cdc-says?srnd=premium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7news.com/amp/coronavirus-covid-19-herd-immunity-california/6091220/ @Reacher Stanford University started an antibody study last week. The disparity in cases and deaths between the west coast and east coast tells us something is going on we dont know about yet. Edited April 10, 2020 by mrflynn03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Reacher said: Maybe Dr Birx has less of an agenda then a US Senator or some website? In her words, they are being "very liberal" with the definition. Before you attack Greg Price, I swear I have never heard of him before I found his tweet and personally am not even on Twitter. I'm confused. Didn't the origination of the argument stem from reporting NON COVID19 deaths as COVID19 deaths? Dr. Brix just said "If someone dies with COVID19, we are counting that". She explained that they are 'very liberal' in comparison to other countries. If somebody had an underlying heart issue (for example) and the virus acted as a "gas pedal to death" (my analogy) then the cause of death is COVID 19. Other countries are reporting that just as a heart issue. I'm not sure there is some underlying conspiracy; just a difference in how numbers are collected and reported. I actually think what is described by Dr. Brix is a more accurate representation because technically nobody dies from the virus; they die from heart failure or kidney failure or pneumonia......things COVID19 either causes or accelerates. If you start picking and choosing how close or far a deceased patience was to death before infection then your numbers are going to be subjective and open for interpretation. Counting every death with a positive COVID test is conclusive. ...Not trying to be an expert, just how i understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7news.com/amp/coronavirus-covid-19-herd-immunity-california/6091220/ @Reacher Stanford University started an antibody study last week. The disparity in cases and deaths between the west coast and east coast tells us something is going on we dont know about yet. Could it be the weather? Greater levels of vitamin D due to the sunshine? I think we will be learning about this for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Quote Fire Department data shows that 1,125 patients were pronounced dead in their homes or on the street in the first five days of April, more than eight times the 131 deaths recorded during the same period last year. Paramedics are not testing those they pronounce dead for the virus, so it is almost impossible to say how many of the people were infected with it. Some may have been tested before they died and either were not admitted to hospitals or were discharged. But the huge jump in the numbers suggests that the virus was involved in many of the recent deaths. “The driver of this huge uptick in deaths at home is Covid-19,” Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Thursday. “And some people are dying directly of it, and some people are dying indirectly of it, but it is the tragic ‘X’ factor here.” Nearly 120 morgue workers and soldiers are working around the clock to retrieve the bodies of up to 280 people a day who are dying at home in New York City, many of them probably having succumbed to the coronavirus without being counted in the official death toll. From the NYT this morning: Undercounting COVID-19 Deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Reacher said: Could it be the weather? Greater levels of vitamin D due to the sunshine? I think we will be learning about this for years. Maybe so, hadn't thought of that. One thing I hope is learned is not overreacting based on limited data. And maybe hear from experts doing actual science like this guy https://youtu.be/d6MZy-2fcBw Edited April 10, 2020 by mrflynn03 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Are COVID-19 Deaths Being Overreported? - American Greatness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 When quotes start coming from the NYT and Washington Post, I get skeptical. Both have a liberal agenda. That's all I'll say..... 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 58 minutes ago, Reacher said: Could it be the weather? Greater levels of vitamin D due to the sunshine? I think we will be learning about this for years. Vitamin D is rumored to help fight Covid-19, but Seattle sure does not get sunshine, and things seem to be greatly improved out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Vitamin D is rumored to help fight Covid-19, but Seattle sure does not get sunshine, and things seem to be greatly improved out there. Wasn't Seattle the first epi-center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) There will be political opportunism on all sides... And there will be people and organizations who seek to profit... Those are truths, no matter how you lean... No matter how the numbers turn out, people have and will continue to use them to an advantage. There's no real "magic number" on which the actions of our local, state, or federal governments can be judged as catastrophic or acceptable. If someone has a "magic number" in mind, I'd like to hear it... The only real comparison we can make is the Spanish flu pandemic 100+ years ago, and even then the numbers are all over the map, plus the fact that medical and societal advances should pare ANY number derived from that pandemic down... So I guess what I'm saying is, if people are basing their assessment of state, local, or federal governments soley on these "numbers" they're either so partizan that they'll never be swayed, or they need to reassess their voting priorities. Let's look at the actions taken and assess it from there... Edited April 10, 2020 by IUFLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: When quotes start coming from the NYT and Washington Post, I get skeptical. Both have a liberal agenda. That's all I'll say..... And neither know that there is another part of the country. If it isn't happening in NYC or Washington D.C..... it isn't happening. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: When quotes start coming from the NYT and Washington Post, I get skeptical. Both have a liberal agenda. That's all I'll say..... They have only one agenda...it is not rocket science. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Wasn't Seattle the first epi-center? It was. But, what I'm saying is the numbers are trending much better out there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 So China is looking to buy up struggling businesses in Europe. Makes you wonder. https://youtu.be/JNNu98pB-JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, milehiiu said: And neither know that there is another part of the country. If it isn't happening in NYC or Washington D.C..... it isn't happening. Mile, that's just not true. I've been a subscriber to NYT for over a decade. They routinely cover the entire world, including the Midwest and the South. If anything they are light on local coverage for those of us who live in NYC. That's one of the frustrating things for us as NYT subscribers. We have to read Gothamist, or the NY Post to get local news - it's weird. Just a quick search for the term "rural" gives me over a dozen articles in the last week from the NYT about how COVID-19 is affecting rural areas. Some really good articles too. The article about the funeral in GA was especially well done. I'm an Indiana kid. Born in IN, raised in IN, graduated HS in IN, and also graduated from IU Bloomington. I know there's this sense that the east coast doesn't care about the rest of the country, but it's not the case in reality. Hell, many of us that live here are from the Midwest! I'm not going to argue about the media on here though, b/c I know we can't do politics. It's just sad that the number of actual people who are dying (these are real people with families) are starting to be used to score political points. We as a country failed to get a jump on this and we will be the country with the most cases and deaths when this is all over. This is disheartening to me as we have the resources for the opposite outcome. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, 5fouls said: It was. But, what I'm saying is the numbers are trending much better out there now. Jealous of their trends and numbers. They are doing really well. Also impressed with the governor of Montana. I read an interview this morning with him in the NYT. They are handling things really well. It's impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Wasn't Seattle the first epi-center? If I'm not mistaken, there was a nursing home that was the epicenter. I think they lost something like 32 patients from that one facility, in like 10 days or so. For a while that was 95% of Washington state's deaths. More now of course, but it sure looks like that was ground zero for WA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 I think there are several things that are contributing to some of the trends we are seeing, but there is no single thing you can point to and say 'that's the anecdote' Climate - Contributes in that warm weather locales are still seeing cases, but are not seeing the overwhelming numbers seen elsewhere. General Age and Health of the Population - West Coast benefits from not only having a better climate, but having, generally, a younger and healthier population. This category may also be a contributing factor in other hot spots such as Detroit, Chicago, and New Orleans. Population Density - NYC and New Jersey, with highly dense population centers are getting slammed, while the mountain and plains states, with a much more spread out population are getting spared. Meanwhile, the high density locations in the South and West are benefiting from one or more of the other factors. Social Distancing. It's just easier to do in some places than ion others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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