Stanford Postgame Thread

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, Artesian_86 said:

Yep,....play were you're needed!

Side note......I'm surely not the only longtime IU fan who does this, but.... As I watch each IU player on the floor during a game, I'm constantly looking at the various numbered jerseys. I continually file through the rolodex in my mind of former IU greats wore those same numbers. It's a little trivia game I have with myself and constantly brings back pleasant memories of those cherished, former players who proudly represented IU while wearing those special numbers. 

I love reliving these well represented numbers shared with former IU GREATS!!!!......I know there are many others who wore the same #, but here are a few that stood out to me.  

Keith Smart - #23, Trace Jackson Davis

Eric Anderson - #32, Trey Galloway

Dean Garrett - #22, Jordan Geronimo

Good times and Good numbers.......

 

 

I do too....I’ll tell you this....when we start seeing a number and the first thing we think of is the current kid wearing it...that’s when we will know we are back. When we have a few of the kids now as good as some of those greats then we will begin to compete for B1G titles and a NC again. Until then we might have some good games to watch but we aren’t likely to see history being made in Indiana anytime soon. Hopefully a couple of these kids will have a legacy that makes their number stand out!

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

We won't have Trayce for 2 years?  Sounds like you have inside information. 

Isn't this Trace second season which is what he is saying

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

That is not who they are and it appears they quit, which is disappointing.

Oh, they didn't quit. I watched the game (twice) and our kids played hard the whole way in my opinion.

Texas is big, athletic, talented, and experienced. I'm not sure why Shaka can't get them over the hump, but he has the talent. 

Davidson is a good team that is well coached. They don't have anywhere near the talent the Longhorns have, but they played them close. Sometimes it's just a bad matchup at a bad time.

If this team improves like I think it will, then I'd like to get Texas again down the road. 

But the first matchup gave are kids a preview of what playing teams like Michigan State will be like.

[Hippopotamo]

I guess I’m sort of confused what everyone is so upset about with this team. By every advanced metric this team has improved every single year, and recruiting has been great in the first 3 years. I’d much rather nurture a slower, more consistent improvement than what Crean had with the highest of highs and lowest of lows. I’d rather make the tournament every year and be in contention most years with a consistent approach, and I think that’s what we’re currently getting. I don’t think constant improvement should be concerning until it stops happening way too early, and I don’t think we’re there yet. Being excited about this year’s team doesn’t mean being content with mediocrity. It means being happy with where we are in year 4 while also expecting years 5, 6, 7 and 8 to be even better. 

[rico]

2 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

I guess I’m sort of confused what everyone is so upset about with this team. By every advanced metric this team has improved every single year, and recruiting has been great in the first 3 years. I’d much rather nurture a slower, more consistent improvement than what Crean had with the highest of highs and lowest of lows. I’d rather make the tournament every year and be in contention most years with a consistent approach, and I think that’s what we’re currently getting. I don’t think constant improvement should be concerning until it stops happening way too early, and I don’t think we’re there yet. Being excited about this year’s team doesn’t mean being content with mediocrity. It means being happy with where we are in year 4 while also expecting years 5, 6, 7 and 8 to be even better. 

Once again, there are only 2 metrics that matter.....Wins and Losses.

[FKIM01]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Oh, they didn't quit. I watched the game (twice) and our kids played hard the whole way in my opinion.

Texas is big, athletic, talented, and experienced. I'm not sure why Shaka can't get them over the hump, but he has the talent. 

Davidson is a good team that is well coached. They don't have anywhere near the talent the Longhorns have, but they played them close. Sometimes it's just a bad matchup at a bad time.

If this team improves like I think it will, then I'd like to get Texas again down the road. 

But the first matchup gave are kids a preview of what playing teams like Michigan State will be like.

Well I'm glad to hear that at least.  I still believe they have to get past that mental block of "...because some of the other players can't throw it in the ocean, I won't be able to either." 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Oh, they didn't quit. I watched the game (twice) and our kids played hard the whole way in my opinion.

Texas is big, athletic, talented, and experienced. I'm not sure why Shaka can't get them over the hump, but he has the talent. 

Davidson is a good team that is well coached. They don't have anywhere near the talent the Longhorns have, but they played them close. Sometimes it's just a bad matchup at a bad time.

If this team improves like I think it will, then I'd like to get Texas again down the road. 

But the first matchup gave are kids a preview of what playing teams like Michigan State will be like.

I think people confuse not playing hard or the offense looking bad to missing shots.  When you are missing shots it will make everything bad even if you are playing hard.

[Hippopotamo]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Once again, there are only 2 metrics that matter.....Wins and Losses.

In what world does the last 3 years not show improvement in the wins and losses category:

 

16-15: no tournament

19-16: NIT tournament berth

20-12: certain NCAA tournament berth

I think this year’s team also looks way better than last year, and the early metrics back that up. 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think people confuse not playing hard or the offense looking bad to missing shots.  When you are missing shots it will make everything bad even if you are playing hard.

True...

Against Texas, we screwed more bunnies than Hugh Hefner... 

[dgambill]

25 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I don’t know about this line of thinking. That’s pretty simplistic, when it’s not that simple. Illinois for example might be better than us this year but they are NOT building a foundation to sustain it. We CAN improve on the court and still lose 11 games this year. I don’t want us to. Trust me, I want us to win every game. But we could theoretically finish 6-7 in the conference and be ranked. Is that not improvement? I don’t want to finish 6/7, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t improve. It’s not excuses, it’s reality. Again, we’re in year 4 of the CAM tenure playing in the toughest conference in the country, by far. Maybe we can move conferences and not play the same type of schedule so we don’t lose as much. Maybe the SEC will take us. They typically have 4-5 decent teams a year and the rest stink. That’s not the Big10 unfortunately. You’re going to lose games. I would hope we’re competing at the top consistently in the future, but I wouldn’t classify this coming season as a failure if we don’t. CAM deserves more time.

I’m happy to get better but if other teams are improving at a better rate...we are still falling behind. If Archie continues to fall behind this year to Illinois but next year it’s Maryland and the year after it’s Penn St and so yeah those team cycle...but we don’t ever move up and languish in the middle...that won’t be good enough. Michigan st, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Michigan if those teams still stay consistently ahead of us then that is a problem because true...a Purdue and an Illinois and a Maryland usually come around every 3/4 years....are we going to be like them and have a good season here and there or did we pay Archie to get us into that top eschalon and keep us there? We should be one of those schools that is in the top 5 every year and winning our share of titles not languishing in the middle because this year Iowa has a good team an next Illinois does and next Purdue does. Mediocrity isn’t good enough for me. Illinois may fall back but what I’m seeing is then a Maryland or Minnesota or someone else leap frogging us and we are still stuck in the middle. My expectations are to have IU like Michigan St.....right there every year with a shot at a title....and while I’m happy with our incremental improvements I don’t see us getting up to that level any time soon with either the roster we have or what will be coming back/in. I’m happy we aren’t playing awful basketball and bringing up the rear...but that doesn’t mean I’m ok with a middle of the pack program. I’m not going to celebrate that as a good year. I’m never going to say we had a good year when we finish in the middle and scratching for an NCAA birth. I’m praying I see more growth in the games to come....particularly on the perimeter....because Texas exposed us and so will good physical B1G opponents as well if we don’t improve. I’m praying we can.

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, rico said:

Once again, there are only 2 metrics that matter.....Wins and Losses.

Indeed!

[13th&Jackson]

14 minutes ago, rico said:

Once again, there are only 2 metrics that matter.....Wins and Losses.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

In what world does the last 3 years not show improvement in the wins and losses category:

 

16-15: no tournament

19-16: NIT tournament berth

20-12: certain NCAA tournament berth

I think this year’s team also looks way better than last year, and the early metrics back that up. 

Someone said we may lose more games this year and to me that isn’t acceptable nor improvement. We dont rate this team in a vacuum. You rate improvement relative to your peers. You can get better and still be falling further behind. That is my point. This minute improvement may not bare the results we expect. Given what we have at IU...we should expect larger results. When you have a student capable of getting A’s and they are getting 50/100 on tests and then improve to 52/100 and 54/100 but still flunking...you are not succeeding.

For the record I think our kids are capable of landing us towards the top of the B1G...but I need to see that improvement on the court really start bearing fruit. Having Trayce go for 30 doesn’t give me more confidence for the season. I know he is capable of that against a weak front court. B1G opponents will game plan to take him away. What will the rest of the team do. I saw Armaan step up...but I need to see a lot more of that and a lot more consistency from our backcourt and wings if I’m to believe we will make that leap in conference.

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’m happy to get better but if other teams are improving at a better rate...we are still falling behind. If Archie continues to fall behind this year to Illinois but next year it’s Maryland and the year after it’s Penn St and so yeah those team cycle...but we don’t ever move up and languish in the middle...that won’t be good enough. Michigan st, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Michigan if those teams still stay consistently ahead of us then that is a problem because true...a Purdue and an Illinois and a Maryland usually come around every 3/4 years....are we going to be like them and have a good season here and there or did we pay Archie to get us into that top eschalon and keep us there? We should be one of those schools that is in the top 5 every year and winning our share of titles not languishing in the middle because this year Iowa has a good team an next Illinois does and next Purdue does. Mediocrity isn’t good enough for me. Illinois may fall back but what I’m seeing is then a Maryland or Minnesota or someone else leap frogging us and we are still stuck in the middle. My expectations are to have IU like Michigan St.....right there every year with a shot at a title....and while I’m happy with our incremental improvements I don’t see us getting up to that level any time soon with either the roster we have or what will be coming back/in. I’m happy we aren’t playing awful basketball and bringing up the rear...but that doesn’t mean I’m ok with a middle of the pack program. I’m not going to celebrate that as a good year. I’m never going to say we had a good year when we finish in the middle and scratching for an NCAA birth. I’m praying I see more growth in the games to come....particularly on the perimeter....because Texas exposed us and so will good physical B1G opponents as well if we don’t improve. I’m praying we can.

Again if this keeps up and not your standards what are you going to do about.  The best way to show your unhappiness is not to go to games or stop watching them.  Stop spending money on merchandise and even going to message boards to talk about the team.  All of this shows you still care so how is just bitching about it on a message board going to change anything.

None of us are happy where we are going into this season but some of us is willing to see how it plays out before judging this team.  I am not worried about what will happen next year or the year after that because we can't see the future.  We have no idea what teams will have major injuries or players leaving early for the draft.  Every year teams will have departures that no one is expecting.  Why keep worrying about things that we have no control over like what we might look like in a year or two.  Try to enjoy the present and get consumed by negativity.

[Hippopotamo]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Someone said we may lose more games this year and to me that isn’t acceptable nor improvement. We dont rate this team in a vacuum. You rate improvement relative to your peers. You can get better and still be falling further behind. That is my point. This minute improvement may not bare the results we expect. Given what we have at IU...we should expect larger results. When you have a student capable of getting A’s and they are getting 50/100 on tests and then improve to 52/100 and 54/100 but still flunking...you are not succeeding.

For the record I think our kids are capable of landing us towards the top of the B1G...but I need to see that improvement on the court really start bearing fruit. Having Trayce go for 30 doesn’t give me more confidence for the season. I know he is capable of that against a weak front court. B1G opponents will game plan to take him away. What will the rest of the team do. I saw Armaan step up...but I need to see a lot more of that and a lot more consistency from our backcourt and wings if I’m to believe we will make that leap in conference.

Just curious, have you ever looked at the strength of schedule for each season that Archie has been here? It might shock you. 
 

If IU played a non conference schedule with Gonzaga, Duke, UNC, Kentucky and Baylor, don’t you think our record would be slightly worse than if we played teams like Louisiana Tech, Princeton, etc? This team’s strength of schedule is insane. Not an excuse but it’s a reality. 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Someone said we may lose more games this year and to me that isn’t acceptable nor improvement. We dont rate this team in a vacuum. You rate improvement relative to your peers. You can get better and still be falling further behind. That is my point. This minute improvement may not bare the results we expect. Given what we have at IU...we should expect larger results. When you have a student capable of getting A’s and they are getting 50/100 on tests and then improve to 52/100 and 54/100 but still flunking...you are not succeeding.

For the record I think our kids are capable of landing us towards the top of the B1G...but I need to see that improvement on the court really start bearing fruit. Having Trayce go for 30 doesn’t give me more confidence for the season. I know he is capable of that against a weak front court. B1G opponents will game plan to take him away. What will the rest of the team do. I saw Armaan step up...but I need to see a lot more of that and a lot more consistency from our backcourt and wings if I’m to believe we will make that leap in conference.

So if you think these kids can get us there so why not look at it in a positive way instead of the negative way that you are looking at things. Life is to short to look at things in a glass half empty way because it is miserable to always be a pessimistic person

[go_iu_bb]

10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’m happy to get better but if other teams are improving at a better rate...we are still falling behind. If Archie continues to fall behind this year to Illinois but next year it’s Maryland and the year after it’s Penn St and so yeah those team cycle...but we don’t ever move up and languish in the middle...that won’t be good enough. Michigan st, Wisconsin, Ohio St, Michigan if those teams still stay consistently ahead of us then that is a problem because true...a Purdue and an Illinois and a Maryland usually come around every 3/4 years....are we going to be like them and have a good season here and there or did we pay Archie to get us into that top eschalon and keep us there? We should be one of those schools that is in the top 5 every year and winning our share of titles not languishing in the middle because this year Iowa has a good team an next Illinois does and next Purdue does. Mediocrity isn’t good enough for me. Illinois may fall back but what I’m seeing is then a Maryland or Minnesota or someone else leap frogging us and we are still stuck in the middle. My expectations are to have IU like Michigan St.....right there every year with a shot at a title....and while I’m happy with our incremental improvements I don’t see us getting up to that level any time soon with either the roster we have or what will be coming back/in. I’m happy we aren’t playing awful basketball and bringing up the rear...but that doesn’t mean I’m ok with a middle of the pack program. I’m not going to celebrate that as a good year. I’m never going to say we had a good year when we finish in the middle and scratching for an NCAA birth. I’m praying I see more growth in the games to come....particularly on the perimeter....because Texas exposed us and so will good physical B1G opponents as well if we don’t improve. I’m praying we can.

To give some numbers to what you're saying, comparing the season before Miller came to IU to now:

Iowa 10-8 (T5th) -> Now projected to win or compete for B1G title

MSU 10-8 (T5th) -> Now projected to win or compete for B1G title

Illinois 8-10 (9th) -> Now projected to win or compete for B1G title 

OSU 7-11 (T10th) -> Now projected to finish above IU

IU 7-11 (T10th) -> Projected 7th place

Rutgers 3-15 (14th) -> Now projected to finish above IU

In that timeframe Purdue has dropped from 1st to tying with IU last year and expected to finish behind them this year. But Miller has not won a game against them, they've had some good seasons and NCAAT runs, and have a really good class coming in next year.

Michigan has dropped off a bit but they also had a coaching change more recently than IU. The prediction I saw had them behind IU in the B1G standings but would many be surprised if that didn't happen?

Of the teams that finished ahead or tied with IU immediately before Miller, the only ones that have really dropped are Minnesota and Northwestern.

 

 

 

[HoosierDom]

39 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think people confuse not playing hard or the offense looking bad to missing shots.  When you are missing shots it will make everything bad even if you are playing hard.

You can guarantee that when shots go in, people will come here and talk about how hard we played. When shots bounce out, the opposite. Has happened every single game for years. Texas outplayed us beyond shots going in or not, but we played good defense throughout and played hard on both ends. 

[rico]

39 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

In what world does the last 3 years not show improvement in the wins and losses category:

 

16-15: no tournament

19-16: NIT tournament berth

20-12: certain NCAA tournament berth

I think this year’s team also looks way better than last year, and the early metrics back that up. 

That wasn't my point.  And besides the numbers you mention aren't IU basketball numbers.  Put those up against Davis' #'s.  My point was there are only 2 metrics.

[IUFLA]

25 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

because it is miserable to always be a pessimistic person

A pessimist is one, who, when presented with two evils, chooses them both...

[rico]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

A pessimist is one, who, when presented with two evils, chooses them both...

No, no, no

A pessimist is one, who, when things turn out better than expected is very jubilant until the next loss.

[FKIM01]

49 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I think people confuse not playing hard or the offense looking bad to missing shots.  When you are missing shots it will make everything bad even if you are playing hard.

Admittedly, I didn't watch it so it sounds like my assumption about quitting was wrong.  Just hard to imagine hustling for 40 minutes and only scoring 44 points.  Just couldn't throw it in the ocean I guess.  That's at least partly mental, although Texas apparently plays pretty good defense at least against IU.  Davidson, not as much so.  

[BobSaccamanno]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Wow, didn't realize that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it's not that Phinisee is playing poorly. He's playing well, but for IU to overachieve this year and really make a leap as a team, they need more from Phinisee. He absolutely cannot go 5 halves of basketball without even attempting a 3-pt shot. 

He shouldn't go one half without attempting a 3-pt shot. 

Again, he's playing well, this isn't a criticism of his play, but 'playing well' doesn't cut it anymore for this team to make a leap. He's a junior at this point, he's now more than halfway through his career, the time is now. 

I like Rob but this has been going on for awhile.   He needs to really assert himself.  He can be darn good.  He has a lot of experience and a broad skill set.  Let’s go!

[IU Scott]

 

I know this can change since everyone can realistically can come back next year but these will be players probably will be gone.  Also I am just using seniors who play minutes and guys who I think will turn pro

IU- Durham, Brunk, TJD

UI- Kofi, Ayo, Frazier, Williams

Iowa- Garza, Bohannon

UM-Livers, Smith, Brown, Davis, Brooks

MSU- Langford, I think Henry will leave

UW- Trice, Ford, Potter, Anderson, Davidson, Reuvers

PU- none

OSU-  Towns, Walker, Young Porter

Maryland- 0

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Admittedly, I didn't watch it so it sounds like my assumption about quitting was wrong.  Just hard to imagine hustling for 40 minutes and only scoring 44 points.  Just couldn't throw it in the ocean I guess.  That's at least partly mental, although Texas apparently plays pretty good defense at least against IU.  Davidson, not as much so.  

Granted i never played at this level but there are some days where you feel great and your body feels good and you play well.  Then there are some days you just feel sluggish and slow and no matter what you do you can't work through it.  You would hope the whole team wouldn't go through that in the same game but the UT game looked that way.