Stanford Postgame Thread

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, madmax said:

I'd probably chalk it up to only so many minutes available for Leal/Geronimo at this point in the rotation. Obviously CAM wanted to see if we could add in some shooting and so Leal got those minutes to see what he could do. I imagine that it will be match-up dependent going forward unless one or the other can really establish themselves in the rotation.

Funny thing is Geronimo has shown more shooting and defense and rebounding then Leal but who knows...maybe just the fact Stanford recruited him and Archie wanted to rub it in was the reason lol.

[IU Scott]

31 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

You are taking the push back too harshly. You and others are less optimistic than some. No big deal.

Most are not saying we are among the best in the nation or even among the best in the conference.

I, for one. Just said I am optimistic we can finish a FEW spots higher than projected.

That does not mean I am right or you are wrong. I gave my reasons earlier.

We all know Scott is very optimistic. We all know @dbmhoosier is very critical. Its part of what makes this great.

People share and defend their viewpoint passionately.

Numbers dictate if you are posting the viewpoint of the minority, more posters are gonna respond. But I do not think it is at you personally or saying you are a bad guy because of it.

Edit: and keep discussing. I enjoy hearing differing viewpoints. Even if I disagree. It would be boring otherwise!

Thank God I am on the optimistic side because how this year had went for me I probably have gone crazy.  To me it just makes life better looking at the positive over the negatives.

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Texas game was a poor effort. Nothing to do with the score or who won but we came out sluggish, in some cases they attacked 50/50 balls while we watched etc. 

I wholly disagree with that. Texas shot 38% overall and 28% from 3 because of poor effort on our part? Come on...

We didn't execute offensively very well, and we didn't hit shots. Texas had a lot to do with that.

 

[dgambill]

43 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I never seen one person who thinks we will finish in the top 4.  I think we are as good ad the other teams in the middle of the big ten

Not to pick a fight but is that a good thing?? Expectations are middle of the pack? Is that what IU should aspire to. How long til we can expect to be at the top of the B1G? Do we have to wait til year 10? A lot of people I think with Indiana basketball facilities, hot bed of talent, money poured into it, school, and history it should happy quicker. When Archie got here I would have expected us to be competing to be at the top of the B1G by year 4-5. Not sure I see us doing that this year or even next possibly...I think 5 years is a good place to access....he is getting close to that. Pressure will start to build. I like Archie...I hope this year he can exceed expectations of what the analyst think...I want him to succeed because it’s in IUs best interest he does....and that’s what we all want. But time is running short and the changes necessary to the roster and on the floor don’t seem to be happening fast enough. Regardless I’m excited for this year because I love college basketball and I love IU. My heart is hoping for the best but my eyes and my brain is telling me this year isn’t likely to look much different than last year.

[Rev_AK]

My take on the last 3 days....

it’s December. The up and down inconsistencies are typical of a young-ish team who had limited practice this year, and had last season cut short. Personally, and I have said this in the past, I don’t mind losing a couple of games in December vs top-notch talent that be 13-0 going into the conference season having played Cupcake U. This is the way Izzo and Rick Pitino always coaches their teams, and it seems to pay off in March.

We need shooters. Arch needs to find a “shot doctor” a la Tim Buckley, or someone that can teach shot mechanics or fundamentals. OR, recruit a shooter. One. Although tape shows that a lot of these kids could shoot in high school. I have to wonder if somehow the extreme conditioning affects their shots. They seem to be shooting the ball with more power than they are used to... kind of like Mike Penix in the first half of big games throwing fastballs... love Clif Marchall, but don’t forget he comes from an NFL background. I wonder if they are too bulked up. Yes, we saw the Race pictures, but we also heard about a player last year with a 48” vertical..

As the great Aaron Rodgers once said... Relax... I for one am thankful that we are able to watch our beloved Hoosiers. I think we all see the potential that is there with this team, but Arch has to make these kids see it in themselves. And, uh, find or create an outside threat. We are thisclose

[IU878176]

19 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I wholly disagree with that. Texas shot 38% overall and 28% from 3 because of poor effort on our part? Come on...

We didn't execute offensively very well, and we didn't hit shots. Texas had a lot to do with that.

 

Agree to disagree but  I don’t think we really went after it from the start of the game. Lose balls, boards etc they went after more than we did. 

[kyhoosier29]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

man.  i like this team more than last year's team, but hard for me to see them winning 20 games or 9 conference games.  again, i don't hope to be "right," and will definitely be supporting them.  sorry for not being Mr. Positive.  just my opinion.  

I think we might win fewer games but have a better season. No excuses, but our schedule is ridiculous. 

[IUFLA]

Look, I'll just say this then I'll shut up.

I don't mind criticism of a team or a player if it's warranted. If you can somehow, statistically or on video show me a glaring deficiency or lack of effort, I'll gladly join you.

But I think some people are being unfair. I haven't seen a lack of effort yet from this group. @coachadragna put up an excellent video on the shots we missed and then broke down some of the offensive struggles. I'm good with that. He shows what we did wrong and why.

But just a "lack of effort" blanket statement with nothing to back it up gets to me. It's unfair.

I'm one of the more optimistic people you'd probably every meet, so that's some of it. But I'm also keenly aware of fairness. I enjoy the journey through the year the whole way...even the lean years, and I've seen more than my share...you should have been around in the 60s!

 

[TheWatShot]

12 minutes ago, Rev_AK said:

 

We need shooters. Arch needs to find a “shot doctor” a la Tim Buckley, or someone that can teach shot mechanics or fundamentals. OR, recruit a shooter. One. Although tape shows that a lot of these kids could shoot in high school. I have to wonder if somehow the extreme conditioning affects their shots. They seem to be shooting the ball with more power than they are used to... kind of like Mike Penix in the first half of big games throwing fastballs... love Clif Marchall, but don’t forget he comes from an NFL background. I wonder if they are too bulked up. Yes, we saw the Race pictures, but we also heard about a player last year with a 48” vertical..

 

Weight training doesn't cause players to miss shots. Poor coaching and lack of development cause players to miss shots. 

 

Yogi Ferrell looked like a linebacker by the time he graduated and his shot got better each year. 

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Look, I'll just say this then I'll shut up.

I don't mind criticism of a team or a player if it's warranted. If you can somehow, statistically or on video show me a glaring deficiency or lack of effort, I'll gladly join you.

But I think some people are being unfair. I haven't seen a lack of effort yet from this group. @coachadragna put up an excellent video on the shots we missed and then broke down some of the offensive struggles. I'm good with that. He shows what we did wrong and why.

But just a "lack of effort" blanket statement with nothing to back it up gets to me. It's unfair.

I'm one of the more optimistic people you'd probably every meet, so that's some of it. But I'm also keenly aware of fairness. I enjoy the journey through the year the whole way...even the lean years, and I've seen more than my share...you should have been around in the 60s!

 

Agreed...effort is there..defense is there...I see improvement...but the area we need to improve the most (perimeter shooting) which I think is the biggest thing that could help us take a leap in W/L I think still has a long way to go. Can we get there...I want is too but my brain just can’t get it to compute.

[kyhoosier29]

2 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Weight training doesn't cause players to miss shots. Poor coaching and lack of development cause players to miss shots. 

 

Yogi Ferrell looked like a linebacker by the time he graduated and his shot got better each year. 

Poor coaching causes players to miss shots? I guess I could see that if the offense doesn’t get kids open shots, but that’s certainly not our problem. 

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Agreed...effort is there..defense is there...I see improvement...but the area we need to improve the most (perimeter shooting) which I think is the biggest thing that could help us take a leap in W/L I think still has a long way to go. Can we get there...I want is too but my brain just can’t get it to compute.

I've always said shooting is form, repetition, and confidence. 

I think they probably get a lot of the first 2.

I think the 3rd will come in time especially for the freshmen...

 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, TheWatShot said:

Weight training doesn't cause players to miss shots. Poor coaching and lack of development cause players to miss shots. 

 

Yogi Ferrell looked like a linebacker by the time he graduated and his shot got better each year. 

He also was coached by an offensive minded coach. Perhaps combining the focus on the weight room and the defensive end of the floor has not left enough focus on the other end. I hated our effort, lack of basketball iq, and defense under Crean but loved to see us put the ball in the hoop. Now it’s the opposite. Outside Purdue, Michigan, and first Wisconsin game I’ve never had a problem with our effort...I love that under Archie...but is it too much to maybe land somewhere in the middle? Don’t get me wrong we had a great win today but it did take a career high from Trayce and Armaan to do it. Is that sustainable when we go into the B1G where the opposition will be tougher and they will have better scouting reports on our guys from years past. We shall see.

[Paye32]

3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Texas seemed to have nightmarish length like a certain Syracuse team that ruined our dreams about 7-8 years ago.  

That's a real good texas team that is going to jump in the rankings big time of they finish this off today.  

I agree with everything you said here. Texas is EXTREMELY long and athletic. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

I've always said shooting is form, repetition, and confidence. 

I think they probably get a lot of the first 2.

I think the 3rd will come in time especially for the freshmen...

 

I hope so....freshman will definitely be a work in progress...but our vets...they’ve gotten somewhat better from the perimeter but not remarkably...and I hope that doesn’t repeat with this young group.

[go_iu_bb]

4 hours ago, madmax said:

A few thoughts:

1. Lander is not nearly as bad defensively as I thought he would be. He is very quick with his feet and does a good job staying in front of his man.

2. I think we can see why Leal isn't playing more. Looked like a pretty big defensive liability and had difficulty moving laterally. I think it'll come to him and he will be a really special player for us, but maybe not this year. It was frustrating that there were a few times where he was wide open and teammates missed getting him the ball, but that happens.

3. We need to run sets for Rob for 3 pointers. His form looks excellent when he is set and while he will never be a guy to get his own 3 point shot, it could really open up the offense if we could get him some good set shot looks.

4. Overall pleased with the performance. Obviously TJD couldn't be stopped and Stanford had no answer for him.

As for number 3, I noticed last season that Phinisee is a decent 3 point shooter when he's set and catches the ball ready to shoot. Unfortunately, that rarely happened. It would be nice to see it happen more this season.

[Hoosier987]

One thing that I noticed about this team - and Archie said it as much in his postgame - this team really likes each other and playing together! Did anyone see TJD in the middle with one arm around Race and the other around Hunter as they were walking into the locker room? Seems like this team is far more attentive and executing more than last year...I bet part of that is a product of being a close unit 

[IUFLA]

27 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Agree to disagree but  I don’t think we really went after it from the start of the game. Lose balls, boards etc they went after more than we did. 

Now you're going to make me rewatch it. 😁

I will say that our guards getting inside position and blocking out made getting what seemed like an inordinate amount long rebounds impossible.

[Drroogh]

18 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

Weight training doesn't cause players to miss shots. Poor coaching and lack of development cause players to miss shots. 

 

Yogi Ferrell looked like a linebacker by the time he graduated and his shot got better each year. 

His shot his freshman year after he bulked up was not good, muscle development definitely affects shots. It’s part of the development process!

[IU Scott]

41 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Not to pick a fight but is that a good thing?? Expectations are middle of the pack? Is that what IU should aspire to. How long til we can expect to be at the top of the B1G? Do we have to wait til year 10? A lot of people I think with Indiana basketball facilities, hot bed of talent, money poured into it, school, and history it should happy quicker. When Archie got here I would have expected us to be competing to be at the top of the B1G by year 4-5. Not sure I see us doing that this year or even next possibly...I think 5 years is a good place to access....he is getting close to that. Pressure will start to build. I like Archie...I hope this year he can exceed expectations of what the analyst think...I want him to succeed because it’s in IUs best interest he does....and that’s what we all want. But time is running short and the changes necessary to the roster and on the floor don’t seem to be happening fast enough. Regardless I’m excited for this year because I love college basketball and I love IU. My heart is hoping for the best but my eyes and my brain is telling me this year isn’t likely to look much different than last year.

Well for this team I think it is good because it would show constant growth.  I don't set my expectations on what IU did in the 80's and 90's with a once in a lifetime coach.  I think some forget that even under RMK we were not a championship caliber team every year.  It would seem like we have a great team and then the next couple would be building back up and and then the next two would be pretty good and then we would have another great team.

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

His shot his freshman year after he bulked up was not good, muscle development definitely affects shots. It’s part of the development process!

Agreed. Shooting is probably 99% muscle memory imo. You change your muscle you change the memory and you have to relearn/recordinate. Certainly Yogi got reacquainted with his shot.

[IU Scott]

23 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I've always said shooting is form, repetition, and confidence. 

I think they probably get a lot of the first 2.

I think the 3rd will come in time especially for the freshmen...

 

Shooting is 80% mental and confidence.  I also don't think coaching can make a poor shooter a good shooter either.  To me shooting is about having touch and feel for shooting and if you don't have it then nothing will make it much better.  You might improve some but you won't make a 25% shooter into a 40% shooter.  You have to recruit shooters because great shooters are born and not made.  To me if a kid gets to the college level and is not a good shooter from deep then he probably will never will be a great shooter.  Also good shooters see one or two passes ahead and are ready to shoot before they get the ball.  You can't decide you are shooting when you catch it because it is to late.

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Well for this team I think it is good because it would show constant growth.  I don't set my expectations on what IU did in the 80's and 90's with a once in a lifetime coach.  I think some forget that even under RMK we were not a championship caliber team every year.  It would seem like we have a great team and then the next couple would be building back up and and then the next two would be pretty good and then we would have another great team.

So you are saying IU under Knight is a one time thing...I agree but you also sound like you don’t ever expect us to contend for a NC again. I have higher expectations....and I know the admin do as well. I know you want to be great again...I just don’t have the patience I don’t think others do. We turn over a roster every 3-4 years. We are turning over this roster this year yet we see some of the same weaknesses still plague the program. I’m hoping to be wrong but I’m not sure the next 3 years are going to look that much different than the past 3. I do think we have a lot more consistency with Archie and won’t see the dramatic ups and downs with the program...but I just don’t know how high our upside can be. It’s getting harder and harder for me seeing this team even win a B1G title much less make a final 4. Just seems so far off.

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Agreed. Shooting is probably 99% muscle memory imo. You change your muscle you change the memory and you have to relearn/recordinate. Certainly Yogi got reacquainted with his shot.

I just know when I was a freshman and we were going through workouts and lifting I had trouble shooting where I never had before.  I had never lifted before that time so I wa snot use to it so it through my shot off terribly.  I was not a college basketball player or as good f a basketball player so it might not effect them.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

So you are saying IU under Knight is a one time thing...I agree but you also sound like you don’t ever expect us to contend for a NC again. I have higher expectations....and I know the admin do as well. I know you want to be great again...I just don’t have the patience I don’t think others do. We turn over a roster every 3-4 years. We are turning over this roster this year yet we see some of the same weaknesses still plague the program. I’m hoping to be wrong but I’m not sure the next 3 years are going to look that much different than the past 3. I do think we have a lot more consistency with Archie and won’t see the dramatic ups and downs with the program...but I just don’t know how high our upside can be. It’s getting harder and harder for me seeing this team even win a B1G title much less make a final 4. Just seems so far off.

Will we ever have a coach better than RMK probably not but I did not say we would never contend for a championship.  John Wooden has been gone since 1975 and UCLA is still searching for their next great coach.  They had Larry Brown but he never stays in one place long.  gene Bartow was a very good coach but couldn't stand the heat from the fan base or administration.  After those two it has been changing coaches every few years.  They finally got Howland and went to 3 straight final fours but that wasn't good enough.