Stanford Postgame Thread

[NCHoosier32]

my shot at being positive today... i agree with what BGleas said earlier, when we hired Archie i was excited to see a gritty team that was tough and played great defense.  i think we're starting to see that.  as much as i hate Purdouche, i say it all the time.  every year they are tougher to play than they should be because they are tough and play solid D.  Race and Trayce give us a nice 1-2 punch inside.  i'm disappointed in where Lander is, but i think we'll see a different player in another month.  RP should be solid and hopefully pretty steady.  Al will show flashes.  Trey seems to get his role.  Franklin is definitely improved.  there!

[GoshenFan84]

14 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Here is an email that I just sent to ESPN and I know they won't care but had to write something.

I want to know who is in charge of hiring announcers for your college basketball games. As an IU fan I was appalled that during the game we had to listen to an interview with Bruce Hornsby. I have no idea why you keep putting Bill Walton on the air because he is just a joke. No wonder a lot of people have stopped watching you station because of the garbage you put on the air. We as fans want to watch sports and not a bunch of garbage we see on your air on a daily basi

I didn't really get a chance to pay attention to the live game yesterday, but I was rewatching it before bed. That Bruce Hornsby segment was egregious. That segment lasted about 15 minutes real time and about 6.5 minutes of game time. Not one word was about the game. 

I understand some people like the eccentricity of Walton, but could you imagine watching an NFL or college football game and nearly an entire quarter went by and not a word about the game? I guess I wouldn't put it past ESPN. 

[IUFLA]

8 hours ago, BGleas said:

On Lander, as he continues to get comfortable it will only help this team, and you can see it slowing coming along. I actually really credit him with not getting discouraged. 

I commented in the game thread that Archie was letting him play through his mistakes. Kristian took an ill-advised 3 early in the shot clock once and you could see Archie raising hell on the sidelines...Now in past seasons with past players, the first ball stoppage would have been a ticket to the bench. But Archie called him over, and while I'm sure he mentioned shot selection  he left him in. He had alluded to letting this kid learn during the pre-season to get ready for the rigors of the B10.

The maturation of a coach? Or just the recognition of a rare talent that needs to grow into his role?

[Coach Robby]

15 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Looking at the box, my favorite stat of the day.  Armaan played 40 minutes,  When is the last time an IU player played em all?  No reason to take somoene out that is playing well in the flow of the game.

Especially on day 3 of a 3 day tournament...shows grit. 

[dgambill]

11 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I think we might win fewer games but have a better season. No excuses, but our schedule is ridiculous. 

To me that is not good enough. All that means is our conference is getting better than us. Basically they are improving at a faster rate than us. We can make excuses all we want but that would mean we are falling behind. Like it or not that just means we aren’t keeping up. We need to improve on the court or we need to go out and improve on the recruiting trail. Losing is losing. I don’t expect to win every game but I won’t be happy finishing in the middle of the pack every year. We hired Archie to win...win the B1G and win a NC. Anything else IS just excuses. If our conference can continue to get better why can’t we??

[Billingsley99]

What a difference a day makes TJD was on sportscaster top 10 yesterday morning getting dunked on this morning he delivered the hammer

 

 

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

What a difference a day makes TJD was on sportscaster top 10 yesterday morning getting dunked on this morning he delivered the hammer

Pretty nice pass from "The Kid" too, eh?

[IUFLA]

Just noticed this too...Look at ol #3 (Anthony) with that solid screen...

[Seeking6]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Just noticed this too...Look at ol #3 (Anthony) with that solid screen...

That inbounds play was beautiful. Seems like a play that's happened to us for years....glad to put it down on someone else. 

[NotIThatLives]

6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I think we are a lot better than some of you are giving us credit for after four games. Don't get me wrong, the Texas game sucked, but we have three convincing wins aside from that. 

Our defense didn't let a team crack 40% in three straight games at "Maui". Defense travels. 

After the first game our free throws made major strides. 

We've seen that TJD has made strides, Race is who we hoped he was, the noise about Galloway had something to it, and several other encouraging things. 

We aren't going to make 40% of our threes but frankly, you don't have to in college. You can win national titles in college playing ugly basketball and winning tough games; I'd almost argue you're more likely to do than playing a "pretty" style. 

College basketball is an ugly game; refs suck, it's over coached, shooting isn't typically great, etc. Winning ugly is a really important thing to do and I think we are taking another step towards being a team who can do that regularly. 

 

Perfect post.

This fan base had Oladipo's jump stuck in their head but we forget it was a 2 year progression and not just the good ole "freshman to sophomore" jump.  Armaan needs a mention.  Rob looks more solid to me and the limited views of Al, he stuffed the stat sheet against a solid big east team.  

Questions remain, will Jerome get rolling?  Has Brunk incrementally improved his game?

[Hippopotamo]

24 minutes ago, dgambill said:

To me that is not good enough. All that means is our conference is getting better than us. Basically they are improving at a faster rate than us. We can make excuses all we want but that would mean we are falling behind. Like it or not that just means we aren’t keeping up. We need to improve on the court or we need to go out and improve on the recruiting trail. Losing is losing. I don’t expect to win every game but I won’t be happy finishing in the middle of the pack every year. We hired Archie to win...win the B1G and win a NC. Anything else IS just excuses. If our conference can continue to get better why can’t we??

We also have 2 non conference home games and fewer cupcakes on the schedule than normal. 

[IUrocker]

Not Stanford related, but for our next game, something I noticed....Florida State will have only played one game when we play them next Wednesday. They had a game postponed and currently sit at 1-0, their lone game being against North Florida who is 0-4. Haven’t been tested yet at all this season. 

[Billingsley99]

19 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

That inbounds play was beautiful. Seems like a play that's happened to us for years....glad to put it down on someone else. 

Exactly.  Look at our bench knowing its coming. 

[BGleas]

8 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Just my early take, but at this early point I’m convinced we’re going to need to, and will, rely on the team’s balance — steadiness from a few, but other than TJD, a mix of scoring.

Some games Race will go off. Some games Al will hit a bunch. Some games Hunter will find his groove and will excel (and I really am questioning the way Cam is holding back the overall 3-point game, but it’s early). Some games our killer downhill frosh will get himself rolling. 
 

Mixed in we’ll rely on the steady play and dominance of TJD, Rob’s Floor game and D to go with a steady outside shot, Lander’s growing floor game with better offense as the season continues, and I really think primarily Franklin’s D — he was killer on D against their best player. He’s looking great defensively — we don’t need him to put up big scoring numbers, but the kind of D, rebounding and offensive balance he showed today I think we’ll see more of steadily. He was really confident in this game.

So I see somewhat similarly but think we do have balance — I’m being careful not to call it depth though lol 

I don't think I explained myself very clearly. What I meant was that we know TJD is our stud, and we know for the most part what we'll be getting out of Thompson, Durham and even Brunk when he gets healthy, but after that IMO if we're relying on various guys to randomly step up, Phinisee is a game-to-game guess on what he'll do and Franklin is really inconsistent, then IU is what the prognosticators say they are. A 7-10th place Big Ten team probably fighting for an 8-10 NCAA seed. 

But, if Franklin can play aggressive offensively like he did today (I know he won't put those numbers up but at least be a consistent threat) and really develop into a consistent threat, Phinisee can be a true lead guard that understands when the team needs him to look for his own shot, and Lander continues to develop, then this is a team that can surprise people in the Big Ten and nationally. 

If we get that from those three guys, then players like Hunter, Galloway, etc. are gravy and just make IU that much better when they're on. But, if IU never knows what it's going to get between Franklin, Phinisee, Lander, Galloway, Hunter, etc. to, then we're going to have another Jekyll vs. Hyde season. 

[DWB]

I'm going to disagree on Franklin...a little...I think he can put up 8/6/3 consistently (pts-bds-assts). If he continues to rebound the way he is this year, I would think he could put those kind of numbers up on garbage shots.

I'm more concerned about Hunter than anybody at this point. He just can't get it going. Shows some flashes down low, but shoots like me from distance.

[BGleas]

14 minutes ago, DWB said:

I'm going to disagree on Franklin...a little...I think he can put up 8/6/3 consistently (pts-bds-assts). If he continues to rebound the way he is this year, I would think he could put those kind of numbers up on garbage shots.

I'm more concerned about Hunter than anybody at this point. He just can't get it going. Shows some flashes down low, but shoots like me from distance.

I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly. I agree, if you give Franklin enough playing time, which he is getting, he can definitely get those numbers off of scraps and playing hard, though I think 6 boards is probably asking a lot. 

I'm speaking more offensively when it comes to Franklin and Phinisee. When IU has these huge, recurring offensive slumps in games, where do we turn? When IU goes almost an entire game with 1 3-pt make and is struggling to score like against Texas, Phinisee only took 4 shots? 

Can Phinisee and Franklin make a leap? Can Phinisee be a guy that recognizes IU is struggling shooting and can take it upon himself as a leader to get a few clean looks off from 3? Is Franklin a guy that can get ultra-aggressive when we need a bucket and are struggling to score and get to his mid-range area and knock down a couple shots to get things going?

IU is missing that type of perimeter leader. Durham does it at times, but you need more than one guy. I know Walton is crazy, but he said something at the start of yesterday's game that I agree with. He said at some point it's not schematic, at some point when you're struggling players have to go make plays, and IU hasn't had that recently, and Durham has been maybe the only reliable guy at that.

If Phinisee and Franklin can develop into more alpha offensive players and scorers, then I think it takes IU up a notch. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I don't think I explained myself very clearly. What I meant was that we know TJD is our stud, and we know for the most part what we'll be getting out of Thompson, Durham and even Brunk when he gets healthy, but after that IMO if we're relying on various guys to randomly step up, Phinisee is a game-to-game guess on what he'll do and Franklin is really inconsistent, then IU is what the prognosticators say they are. A 7-10th place Big Ten team probably fighting for an 8-10 NCAA seed. 

But, if Franklin can play aggressive offensively like he did today (I know he won't put those numbers up but at least be a consistent threat) and really develop into a consistent threat, Phinisee can be a true lead guard that understands when the team needs him to look for his own shot, and Lander continues to develop, then this is a team that can surprise people in the Big Ten and nationally. 

If we get that from those three guys, then players like Hunter, Galloway, etc. are gravy and just make IU that much better when they're on. But, if IU never knows what it's going to get between Franklin, Phinisee, Lander, Galloway, Hunter, etc. to, then we're going to have another Jekyll vs. Hyde season. 

And my post was late night, disorganized and hard for even me to understand now. Lol.

I think we're seeing things mostly similarly. We have certain players who at this point I think we know will be steady and consistent contributors, offensively.

For me, those include TJD and Al, and now Race, but also Rob. I think Rob's game this season shows he's going to consistently contribute on the offensive end -- he's much more aggressive, he's showing a consistently good outside shot, and -- thank God -- he's healthy.

The point I was trying to make about balance I think is a lot like what you're saying. 

After those guys, I think we'll see games where Franklin, Hunter, Lander and/or Brunk contribute significantly on the offensive end --

But on Franklin, at this point I think we'll see steady, strong defensive contribution regardless of his offensive contributions. He has not been consistently effective offensively, after the first game some were basically posting he was bad. He's clearly not bad, he's good and has grown his game, but I don't think we need to rely on his offense. The kid is playing really good D, man he shut down Stanford's stud, and I think that is somewhat lost in the discussion of his stat line from that game. That was probably more important than anything else he did in that game. I think we'll be relying on his strong D and a balanced game that he'll bring, with some strong offensive performances added in like the Stanford game. 

At this point, I expect Hunter to step it up in games as well, but so far -- and I'm emphasizing so far because we've seen very little -- after the first game he hasn't gotten it going, got a bunch of ticky tack fouls in the Texas game and hasn't found his groove. But, I believe, we need his outside shooting, and I'm somewhat concerned at this point that CAM isn't utilizing the outside game enough. We ran sets for Hunter in game 1, that was clear, and he excelled, including that nice mid-range hook shot. We didn't do that against Stanford. Is that because the game plan against Stanford (which obviously worked well) was geared to that game, or was it reflective of how CAM is going to orchestrate the offensive sets going forward? I hope it's the former and not the latter. If we don't have a good, clicking outside game relying on more than just a couple players (Al and Rob) we'll lose games we shouldn't. 

[13th&Jackson]

I was really impressed with Franklin nailing back to back mid-range jumpers late that deflated any chance for Stanford. Those were clutch winning shots

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I don't think I explained myself very clearly. What I meant was that we know TJD is our stud, and we know for the most part what we'll be getting out of Thompson, Durham and even Brunk when he gets healthy, but after that IMO if we're relying on various guys to randomly step up, Phinisee is a game-to-game guess on what he'll do and Franklin is really inconsistent, then IU is what the prognosticators say they are. A 7-10th place Big Ten team probably fighting for an 8-10 NCAA seed. 

But, if Franklin can play aggressive offensively like he did today (I know he won't put those numbers up but at least be a consistent threat) and really develop into a consistent threat, Phinisee can be a true lead guard that understands when the team needs him to look for his own shot, and Lander continues to develop, then this is a team that can surprise people in the Big Ten and nationally. 

If we get that from those three guys, then players like Hunter, Galloway, etc. are gravy and just make IU that much better when they're on. But, if IU never knows what it's going to get between Franklin, Phinisee, Lander, Galloway, Hunter, etc. to, then we're going to have another Jekyll vs. Hyde season. 

I've always believed that competition leads to improvement and improvement leads to winning. The way this young group looks so far, I'd say the competition in practice is probably pretty intense. Maybe that will drive Jerome, Rob, and Al to better play. If it doesn't, I hope Archie starts using the kids more. I mean, it's apparent to me that especially Hunter to could be vulnerable to losing minutes if he doesn't improve. Izzo always says players dictate who gets the minutes, and I hope CAM subscribes to that.

Looking down the road, I sincerely hope Anthony Leal steps up sometime this year. I watched some of his high school games last year, and the kid has a nice stroke. Just needs the confidence. I posted a pic of him setting a screen, but I don't want him to be Brian Sloan...I want him to be Randy Wittman.

[HoosierDom]

3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Just noticed this too...Look at ol #3 (Anthony) with that solid screen...

He definitely got away with one on that play - leal was not even close to set.

That was only the third time in my life as a sports fan that my team got away with one, so we were due. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

36 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I've always believed that competition leads to improvement and improvement leads to winning. The way this young group looks so far, I'd say the competition in practice is probably pretty intense. Maybe that will drive Jerome, Rob, and Al to better play. If it doesn't, I hope Archie starts using the kids more. I mean, it's apparent to me that especially Hunter to could be vulnerable to losing minutes if he doesn't improve. Izzo always says players dictate who gets the minutes, and I hope CAM subscribes to that.

Looking down the road, I sincerely hope Anthony Leal steps up sometime this year. I watched some of his high school games last year, and the kid has a nice stroke. Just needs the confidence. I posted a pic of him setting a screen, but I don't want him to be Brian Sloan...I want him to be Randy Wittman.

Quoting what I said in response to one of Gleas's posts above --

At this point, I expect Hunter to step it up in games as well, but so far -- and I'm emphasizing so far because we've seen very little -- after the first game he hasn't gotten it going, got a bunch of ticky tack fouls in the Texas game and hasn't found his groove. But, I believe, we need his outside shooting, and I'm somewhat concerned at this point that CAM isn't utilizing the outside game enough. We ran sets for Hunter in game 1, that was clear, and he excelled, including that nice mid-range hook shot. We didn't do that against Stanford. Is that because the game plan against Stanford (which obviously worked well) was geared to that game, or was it reflective of how CAM is going to orchestrate the offensive sets going forward? I hope it's the former and not the latter. If we don't have a good, clicking outside game relying on more than just a couple players (Al and Rob) we'll lose games we shouldn't.

- This is where I am on Hunter and what's going on with our outside shooting game. Gleas also commented that IU is missing a perimeter leader. I tend to agree -- but with the caveat that it's also the sets we're running and how much freedom the shooters are actually being given. I can't really tell so far and it's early, but I have concerns that CAM isn't letting guys like Hunter get going from the perimeter. The sets we ran against Stanford were different than we ran in our first game -- not a bad thing and they were good for the Stanford game, but what will they be going forward? What is CAM doing to get our outside game going? Is he going to utilize Hunter well? I can't tell at this point.

[Artesian_86]

3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Just noticed this too...Look at ol #3 (Anthony) with that solid screen...

Yep,....play were you're needed!

Side note......I'm surely not the only longtime IU fan who does this, but.... As I watch each IU player on the floor during a game, I'm constantly looking at the various numbered jerseys. I continually file through the rolodex in my mind of former IU greats wore those same numbers. It's a little trivia game I have with myself and constantly brings back pleasant memories of those cherished, former players who proudly represented IU while wearing those special numbers. 

I love reliving these well represented numbers shared with former IU GREATS!!!!......I know there are many others who wore the same #, but here are a few that stood out to me.  

Keith Smart - #23, Trace Jackson Davis

Eric Anderson - #32, Trey Galloway

Dean Garrett - #22, Jordan Geronimo

Good times and Good numbers.......

 

 

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

And my post was late night, disorganized and hard for even me to understand now. Lol.

I think we're seeing things mostly similarly. We have certain players who at this point I think we know will be steady and consistent contributors, offensively.

For me, those include TJD and Al, and now Race, but also Rob. I think Rob's game this season shows he's going to consistently contribute on the offensive end -- he's much more aggressive, he's showing a consistently good outside shot, and -- thank God -- he's healthy.

The point I was trying to make about balance I think is a lot like what you're saying. 

After those guys, I think we'll see games where Franklin, Hunter, Lander and/or Brunk contribute significantly on the offensive end --

But on Franklin, at this point I think we'll see steady, strong defensive contribution regardless of his offensive contributions. He has not been consistently effective offensively, after the first game some were basically posting he was bad. He's clearly not bad, he's good and has grown his game, but I don't think we need to rely on his offense. The kid is playing really good D, man he shut down Stanford's stud, and I think that is somewhat lost in the discussion of his stat line from that game. That was probably more important than anything else he did in that game. I think we'll be relying on his strong D and a balanced game that he'll bring, with some strong offensive performances added in like the Stanford game. 

At this point, I expect Hunter to step it up in games as well, but so far -- and I'm emphasizing so far because we've seen very little -- after the first game he hasn't gotten it going, got a bunch of ticky tack fouls in the Texas game and hasn't found his groove. But, I believe, we need his outside shooting, and I'm somewhat concerned at this point that CAM isn't utilizing the outside game enough. We ran sets for Hunter in game 1, that was clear, and he excelled, including that nice mid-range hook shot. We didn't do that against Stanford. Is that because the game plan against Stanford (which obviously worked well) was geared to that game, or was it reflective of how CAM is going to orchestrate the offensive sets going forward? I hope it's the former and not the latter. If we don't have a good, clicking outside game relying on more than just a couple players (Al and Rob) we'll lose games we shouldn't. 

I completely get what you're saying on each player, as well as the team overall taking more 3's. I agree. 

I think what I'm having trouble getting across is that for this team to take the next step, a couple of guys need to distinguish themselves offensively and improve their consistency and I think those guys are Franklin and Phinisee. 

Bill Walton said before the Stanford game tipped in reference to IU's offense against Texas, that at some point it's not about coaching and tactics, players have to go out and make plays and make shots.

I agree with that, and what I'm saying is while Phinisee is playing really well, he can't go 3 halves of basketball without even taking a 3-pt attempt, which I believe is what he did from the Texas game through the first half of the Stanford game (I believe all 3 attempts yesterday were in the second half). 

He just can't do that, he's too good of a shooter. This team needs him to be more than a facilitator and pace setter in order to take the next step and move up the Big Ten standings. 

With Franklin, he might have the best mid-range pull-up jumper on the team, he's one of the best at attacking the basket, and he's developing into a solid 3-pt shooter. When IU is going through one of these extended offensive lulls, Franklin is a guy that can go get a bucket, but the next step for this team is him developing that consistently. 

Again, I agree with what you're saying. I'm speaking about those guys in terms of what this team needs to take the next step and finish top 4-5 in the conference. I think the best chance is those two guys becoming more consistent scorers and Lander getting comfortable/developing.

That doesn't mean I don't like Hunter, Galloway, Leal, Geronimo, etc., or I don't think they're important to the team, I just don't think those guys are quite ready for the consistent responsibility I'd like to see Phinisee and Franklin get to this season. 

[GaloisGroupe]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I've always believed that competition leads to improvement and improvement leads to winning. The way this young group looks so far, I'd say the competition in practice is probably pretty intense. Maybe that will drive Jerome, Rob, and Al to better play. If it doesn't, I hope Archie starts using the kids more. I mean, it's apparent to me that especially Hunter to could be vulnerable to losing minutes if he doesn't improve. Izzo always says players dictate who gets the minutes, and I hope CAM subscribes to that.

Looking down the road, I sincerely hope Anthony Leal steps up sometime this year. I watched some of his high school games last year, and the kid has a nice stroke. Just needs the confidence. I posted a pic of him setting a screen, but I don't want him to be Brian Sloan...I want him to be Randy Wittman.

I always loved Sloan - never hurts to have a pick master getting everyone else open. 

That being said, I hope that Leal becomes a shooter for us... we NEED a shooter.

[BGleas]

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

Exactly. Teams are going to continue to pack the paint and double Trayce and force our guards to beat them. Question will be can they? That will be what we have to watch...does the backcourt grow up.

Completely agree. I'm not discounting Hunter, Galloway, Leal, Geronimo, etc., they're important guys to this team and the program, but I think those guys have further to come at this point in terms of consistency and making a 'leap'. I expect more from them, mainly the freshmen, next season. 

But with Franklin, Phinisee and Lander, you can see how close they are. As you said the question is, how soon can they go from strong but uneven play, to being consistent forces offensively?