Stanford Postgame Thread

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

I've always believed that competition leads to improvement and improvement leads to winning. The way this young group looks so far, I'd say the competition in practice is probably pretty intense. Maybe that will drive Jerome, Rob, and Al to better play. If it doesn't, I hope Archie starts using the kids more. I mean, it's apparent to me that especially Hunter to could be vulnerable to losing minutes if he doesn't improve. Izzo always says players dictate who gets the minutes, and I hope CAM subscribes to that.

Looking down the road, I sincerely hope Anthony Leal steps up sometime this year. I watched some of his high school games last year, and the kid has a nice stroke. Just needs the confidence. I posted a pic of him setting a screen, but I don't want him to be Brian Sloan...I want him to be Randy Wittman.

I actually was pleasantly surprised with Leal yesterday. I thought he played a really good floor game while he was in. He moved the ball well, he had that baseline pass to TJD for a dunk and another time he pushed the ball in transition and hit TJD with a little dump off pass for an easy layup but TJD dropped the pass out of bounds. As has been shared, he also set the screen that got TJD the dunk on the BLOB play. 

He was wide open several times behind the 3-pt line as well, but for some reason he never got the ball rotated to him. I was encouraged. 

[IUFLA]

30 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I agree with that, and what I'm saying is while Phinisee is playing really well, he can't go 3 halves of basketball without even taking a 3-pt attempt, which I believe is what he did from the Texas game through the first half of the Stanford game (I believe all 3 attempts yesterday were in the second half). 

Rob didn't take a 3 in the Providence game either, but he did have a good game.

I'm like you...we need him to shoot 3s.

[IUFLA]

20 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said:

I always loved Sloan - never hurts to have a pick master getting everyone else open. 

That being said, I hope that Leal becomes a shooter for us... we NEED a shooter.

I loved Sloan too, but I'm with you...a shooter like Wittman. 

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Rob didn't take a 3 in the Providence game either, but he did have a good game.

I'm like you...we need him to shoot 3s.

Wow, didn't realize that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it's not that Phinisee is playing poorly. He's playing well, but for IU to overachieve this year and really make a leap as a team, they need more from Phinisee. He absolutely cannot go 5 halves of basketball without even attempting a 3-pt shot. 

He shouldn't go one half without attempting a 3-pt shot. 

Again, he's playing well, this isn't a criticism of his play, but 'playing well' doesn't cut it anymore for this team to make a leap. He's a junior at this point, he's now more than halfway through his career, the time is now. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

46 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I completely get what you're saying on each player, as well as the team overall taking more 3's. I agree. 

I think what I'm having trouble getting across is that for this team to take the next step, a couple of guys need to distinguish themselves offensively and improve their consistency and I think those guys are Franklin and Phinisee. 

Bill Walton said before the Stanford game tipped in reference to IU's offense against Texas, that at some point it's not about coaching and tactics, players have to go out and make plays and make shots.

I agree with that, and what I'm saying is while Phinisee is playing really well, he can't go 3 halves of basketball without even taking a 3-pt attempt, which I believe is what he did from the Texas game through the first half of the Stanford game (I believe all 3 attempts yesterday were in the second half). 

He just can't do that, he's too good of a shooter. This team needs him to be more than a facilitator and pace setter in order to take the next step and move up the Big Ten standings. 

With Franklin, he might have the best mid-range pull-up jumper on the team, he's one of the best at attacking the basket, and he's developing into a solid 3-pt shooter. When IU is going through one of these extended offensive lulls, Franklin is a guy that can go get a bucket, but the next step for this team is him developing that consistently. 

Again, I agree with what you're saying. I'm speaking about those guys in terms of what this team needs to take the next step and finish top 4-5 in the conference. I think the best chance is those two guys becoming more consistent scorers and Lander getting comfortable/developing.

That doesn't mean I don't like Hunter, Galloway, Leal, Geronimo, etc., or I don't think they're important to the team, I just don't think those guys are quite ready for the consistent responsibility I'd like to see Phinisee and Franklin get to this season. 

I get what you're saying now thanks. Largely agree. I don't see Franklin as that important to the offensive end - he's really only had the one game where he stood out, but I absolutely agree he looks like he has the best mid-range game on the team and that can and should be used.

What I'd like to see coach Tony A or someone break down though is what sets CAM is running for those outside shots. My early take is some of what you're talking about, on Rob not taking 3-pointers or the team's outside shooting generally, is that that starts with CAM. I don't think he's encouraging the outside game and that's a concern. I also would add Hunter to the guys I think are important to the team taking the next step. He's absolutely one of the team's best shooters, and CAM has noted as much several times. How much of his lack of offensive contribution over the past few games is Hunter not being ready or stepping up, and how much is the sets and strategies CAM is pushing? 

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Wow, didn't realize that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it's not that Phinisee is playing poorly. He's playing well, but for IU to overachieve this year and really make a leap as a team, they need more from Phinisee. He absolutely cannot go 5 halves of basketball without even attempting a 3-pt shot. 

He shouldn't go one half without attempting a 3-pt shot. 

Again, he's playing well, this isn't a criticism of his play, but 'playing well' doesn't cut it anymore for this team to make a leap. He's a junior at this point, he's now more than halfway through his career, the time is now. 

I agree. Love his defense, and, other than Texas, his floor game, but he's gotta be one of the guys the other team has to worry about from 3.

I was encouraged by the 2 he hit in the 2nd half against Stanford. When he gets his feet set right, he's a pretty good shooter. When he doesn't he throws up something like he did in the first half (missed everything). 

 

[go_iu_bb]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Wow, didn't realize that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it's not that Phinisee is playing poorly. He's playing well, but for IU to overachieve this year and really make a leap as a team, they need more from Phinisee. He absolutely cannot go 5 halves of basketball without even attempting a 3-pt shot. 

He shouldn't go one half without attempting a 3-pt shot. 

Again, he's playing well, this isn't a criticism of his play, but 'playing well' doesn't cut it anymore for this team to make a leap. He's a junior at this point, he's now more than halfway through his career, the time is now. 

Right. For a junior PG what is the definition of "playing well" on this team? Is it just playing good defense and not f'ing up on offense? Because that's mostly what he's been doing. For players like Reynolds and Meeks, that was enough since those teams had a lot of talent around them and many ways to score from all over the floor. On this team, more scoring is needed, particularly from long range. So if he's not contributing to that, is he playing well overall or just in certain aspects but still not doing enough?

[DunkinDipo]

38 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I actually was pleasantly surprised with Leal yesterday. I thought he played a really good floor game while he was in. He moved the ball well, he had that baseline pass to TJD for a dunk and another time he pushed the ball in transition and hit TJD with a little dump off pass for an easy layup but TJD dropped the pass out of bounds. As has been shared, he also set the screen that got TJD the dunk on the BLOB play. 

He was wide open several times behind the 3-pt line as well, but for some reason he never got the ball rotated to him. I was encouraged. 

It looked to me like Leal did get the ball a few times behind the 3-pt line and was open but wasn't looking to shoot. You can tell he is gun shy right now and is looking to pass first. I think he attempted 1 three which he missed but it wasn't a brick. I hope he starts looking to shoot more since we all know he can stroke it. I don't know if Archie has told him to focus on being a passer and facilitator or he is just a little scared to shoot.

[DunkinDipo]

Sorry if this was already mentioned but does anyone know why Geronimo didn't play yesterday? Is there an injury or is he in the dog house or what? With Al injured and Leal getting a lot more minutes than usual, I was surprised to not see Geronimo out there on the court. 

[KoB2011]

When Rob is off the ball he needs to be hunting his shots. So often when he is off the ball he looks to reset the offense when he gets it back rather than catching the ball ready to shoot. 

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, DunkinDipo said:

Sorry if this was already mentioned but does anyone know why Geronimo didn't play yesterday? Is there an injury or is he in the dog house or what? With Al injured and Leal getting a lot more minutes than usual, I was surprised to not see Geronimo out there on the court. 

I would assume it had to do with Race and Trace played so we'll. Archie was just using Hunter as the back up and probably wanted one of the two of Race and Trace on the floor at all times.

[NCHoosier32]

11 minutes ago, DunkinDipo said:

Sorry if this was already mentioned but does anyone know why Geronimo didn't play yesterday? Is there an injury or is he in the dog house or what? With Al injured and Leal getting a lot more minutes than usual, I was surprised to not see Geronimo out there on the court. 

i just don't think he's ready

[tdhoosier]

47 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Wow, didn't realize that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it's not that Phinisee is playing poorly. He's playing well, but for IU to overachieve this year and really make a leap as a team, they need more from Phinisee. He absolutely cannot go 5 halves of basketball without even attempting a 3-pt shot. 

He shouldn't go one half without attempting a 3-pt shot. 

Again, he's playing well, this isn't a criticism of his play, but 'playing well' doesn't cut it anymore for this team to make a leap. He's a junior at this point, he's now more than halfway through his career, the time is now. 

‘Coach’ on Assembly Hall had an interesting observation about Rob. He said he’s too coachable. Meaning that CAM may say ‘take care of the ball today’ and Rob will take care of the ball so much that he becomes passive. Or he’ll be asked to take ‘smart shots’ and Rob doesn’t end up taking one unless somebody isn’t within 10 feet of him. Rob seems to have a hard hard time allowing his natural ability to takeover because he’s too caught up on not screwing up his responsibilities. 

I kinda get what Coach is saying and wonder if that is an issue not only for Rob but for others too. And for our poor shooting percentage. 

(Sorry, if somebody said something similar - I haven’t read the entire thread because work has been crazy this week.)

 

 

[FKIM01]

Read the first page of comments and skipped to the end so pardon any unintentional redundancies.

Completely missed the game, but I'll watch the replay tonight.  Thank you, YouTube TV for automatically recording every IU football and basketball game for me when I forget to watch.

Having only watched the Providence game thus far (I have no stomach to go back and watch Texas), I hope these guys are good & pissed about the Texas game.  That is not who they are and it appears they quit, which is disappointing.

On the flip side, to come back and dismantle a pretty good Stanford team after a bad loss is something we haven't seen recently.  Seems like earlier Archie squads were too prone to having a hangover from bad losses.  I really like the bounce back they showed here after what appears to be just a dreadful performance.

Now, for the sunshine pumper's concern...Texas is talented but they damned near lost to Pete Davidson so they are a long way from invincible.  I can't figure out why when things are going badly, there is no one...and I mean NO ONE on the bench who can provide any kind of spark.  It just seems like bad play is still contagious for this team and I hope they learn to get past that.  I think they can.  I think the team is deep enough talent-wise that some of these guys on the bench can come in and pick the team up when they are playing poorly.

I think that they can get past this mentally and I think they need to to truly be a contender.  As much as anything here, having the ability to take a player or players out of the game when they are playing poorly and replacing them with a player or players hungry to contribute is key to getting over that last hump.  For me, it's 100% mental, just like free throws and it's why Bob Knight said what he did about the mental aspect of the game being so much more important.  It is.  If Archie can solve that aspect for this team, they are going to surprise some teams this year and will be much less prone to the up and down play we've come to expect.

Good game...glad to come back here today and miss all the pissing and moaning from the last game.

[FKIM01]

4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

(Sorry, if somebody said something similar - I haven’t read the entire thread because work has been crazy this week.)

Ha...should have read your disclaimer before I issued mine.  I wasn't going to wade through 11 pages before posting either.

[BGleas]

55 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

When Rob is off the ball he needs to be hunting his shots. So often when he is off the ball he looks to reset the offense when he gets it back rather than catching the ball ready to shoot. 

Great point. He needs to do more shot-hunting. Not overboard with it, but enough that he's spreading the floor, getting us through offensive lulls, and forcing the defense to respect IU from deep.

As a point guard, his sort of last step of maturation is knowing when the team needs him to be more aggressive in getting his own. The sooner that happens, the better for IU. 

[Inequality]

Rob’s jump shot has textbook form all the way through. No doubt the kid can drain ‘em. The height of his shot release is hard to defend as well.

[kyhoosier29]

7 hours ago, dgambill said:

To me that is not good enough. All that means is our conference is getting better than us. Basically they are improving at a faster rate than us. We can make excuses all we want but that would mean we are falling behind. Like it or not that just means we aren’t keeping up. We need to improve on the court or we need to go out and improve on the recruiting trail. Losing is losing. I don’t expect to win every game but I won’t be happy finishing in the middle of the pack every year. We hired Archie to win...win the B1G and win a NC. Anything else IS just excuses. If our conference can continue to get better why can’t we??

I don’t know about this line of thinking. That’s pretty simplistic, when it’s not that simple. Illinois for example might be better than us this year but they are NOT building a foundation to sustain it. We CAN improve on the court and still lose 11 games this year. I don’t want us to. Trust me, I want us to win every game. But we could theoretically finish 6-7 in the conference and be ranked. Is that not improvement? I don’t want to finish 6/7, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t improve. It’s not excuses, it’s reality. Again, we’re in year 4 of the CAM tenure playing in the toughest conference in the country, by far. Maybe we can move conferences and not play the same type of schedule so we don’t lose as much. Maybe the SEC will take us. They typically have 4-5 decent teams a year and the rest stink. That’s not the Big10 unfortunately. You’re going to lose games. I would hope we’re competing at the top consistently in the future, but I wouldn’t classify this coming season as a failure if we don’t. CAM deserves more time.

[FKIM01]

3 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I don’t know about this line of thinking. That’s pretty simplistic, when it’s not that simple. Illinois for example might be better than us this year but they are NOT building a foundation to sustain it. We CAN improve on the court and still lose 11 games this year. I don’t want us to. Trust me, I want us to win every game. But we could theoretically finish 6-7 in the conference and be ranked. Is that not improvement? I don’t want to finish 6/7, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t improve. It’s not excuses, it’s reality. Again, we’re in year 4 of the CAM tenure playing in the toughest conference in the country, by far. Maybe we can move conferences and not play the same type of schedule so we don’t lose as much. Maybe the SEC will take us. They typically have 4-5 decent teams a year and the rest stink. That’s not the Big10 unfortunately. You’re going to lose games. I would hope we’re competing at the top consistently in the future, but I wouldn’t classify this coming season as a failure if we don’t. CAM deserves more time.

+1.  I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.  If the year over year over year improvement continues, eventually you reach elite status.  I don't think IU is far from that and I love the measurable improvement each year.

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I don’t know about this line of thinking. That’s pretty simplistic, when it’s not that simple. Illinois for example might be better than us this year but they are NOT building a foundation to sustain it. We CAN improve on the court and still lose 11 games this year. I don’t want us to. Trust me, I want us to win every game. But we could theoretically finish 6-7 in the conference and be ranked. Is that not improvement? I don’t want to finish 6/7, but that doesn’t mean we didn’t improve. It’s not excuses, it’s reality. Again, we’re in year 4 of the CAM tenure playing in the toughest conference in the country, by far. Maybe we can move conferences and not play the same type of schedule so we don’t lose as much. Maybe the SEC will take us. They typically have 4-5 decent teams a year and the rest stink. That’s not the Big10 unfortunately. You’re going to lose games. I would hope we’re competing at the top consistently in the future, but I wouldn’t classify this coming season as a failure if we don’t. CAM deserves more time.

Agree, especially on Illinois. I know it's frustrating to see Illinois ranked in the top 5/10, but literally the only thing that makes them better than IU right now (if they even really are) is that their Romeo Langford (Dosumu) couldn't get drafted so had to stay 3 years and our Romeo Langford was a one and done. 

Langford and Dosumu were the same class and TJD and Cockburn were the same class. They're getting two years of those two guys together and IU got none. Otherwise, I'll take what Archie has/is building over Underwood. 

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, Hippopotamo said:

We also have 2 non conference home games and fewer cupcakes on the schedule than normal. 

You want to be the best you beat the best. I’m not ok continuing to finish middle of the pack. If you are then I’m sure you will be happy with this season. I expect more. Our schedule is too tough because the other B1G schools have out recruited and out improved us then whose fault is that? The other BIG teams continue to get better...they manage to still land talent and improve them...I expect that and more from Archie. I don’t care who is on our schedule. If we want to be a national contender we have to win more games...not make excuses for why we lose. I mean at the rate we are improving compared to our B1G brethren it will be 2030 before we start competing for just a B1G title. In fact we have been going the opposite way. The other schools are improving faster then we are. 
We have talent that is what people tell me...so it should start showing in the W/L column. If it don’t then we either don’t have enough talent or we aren’t coaching them up. That’s both on Archie. It’s year 4. No more excuses it’s time to win more games. He has his guys. We have looked good except for Texas...but I’m told they wear big boy pants and we shouldn’t expect to beat those type of teams. Well when are we going to put on our big boy pants ourselves? We are Indiana basketball. 5 time National Champions...home of some of the best if not the best high school basketball players in the country. We have state of the art facilities, maybe the best home court in the country fans/arena, respectable academics, beautiful campus, and perhaps the prettiest coeds in the B1G....we have every advantage to have one of the best college basketball programs in the country....Archie has it all...I’m not going to make excuses for finishing 7th, 8th, 9th or worse in our conference alone...much less nationally. If Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, OSU, Michigan, Purdue, Michigan St etc etc are still better than us that is a problem for me. Other schools and coaches have figured out how to rise to the top with much less resources and sometimes much less talent. Find a way. I like our guys and think they are capable of more. I’m ready to see it. I think they can make that jump to the top part of the B1G but if another year goes by and we are losing more games and falling further behind...I won’t have much patience left for Archie. He has the tools....these kids have talent. I think we should be winning more games not less. Sure if you finish at the top you may take a small step back now and then but when you are near the bottom....where we should never be...if you aren’t moving up you are not doing it good enough.

[dbmhoosier]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Agree, especially on Illinois. I know it's frustrating to see Illinois ranked in the top 5/10, but literally the only thing that makes them better than IU right now (if they even really are) is that their Romeo Langford (Dosumu) couldn't get drafted so had to stay 3 years and our Romeo Langford was a one and done. 

Langford and Dosumu were the same class and TJD and Cockburn were the same class. They're getting two years of those two guys together and IU got none. Otherwise, I'll take what Archie has/is building over Underwood. 

We won't have Trayce for 2 years?  Sounds like you have inside information. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said:

We won't have Trayce for 2 years?  Sounds like you have inside information. 

No, I'm saying Dosumu and Cockburn played together for two years, whereas for IU Langford and TJD never played together. 

Dosumu and Langford were in the same class, and Cockburn and TJD were in the same class. Literally the only reason Illinois is where they are this season is because Dosumu had to stick around 3 years. 

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

We won't have Trayce for 2 years?  Sounds like you have inside information. 

Re-read what he said.

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You want to be the best you beat the best. I’m not ok continuing to finish middle of the pack. If you are then I’m sure you will be happy with this season. I expect more. Our schedule is too tough because the other B1G schools have out recruited and out improved us then whose fault is that? The other BIG teams continue to get better...they manage to still land talent and improve them...I expect that and more from Archie. I don’t care who is on our schedule. If we want to be a national contender we have to win more games...not make excuses for why we lose. I mean at the rate we are improving compared to our B1G brethren it will be 2030 before we start competing for just a B1G title. In fact we have been going the opposite way. The other schools are improving faster then we are. 
We have talent that is what people tell me...so it should start showing in the W/L column. If it don’t then we either don’t have enough talent or we aren’t coaching them up. That’s both on Archie. It’s year 4. No more excuses it’s time to win more games. He has his guys. We have looked good except for Texas...but I’m told they wear big boy pants and we shouldn’t expect to beat those type of teams. Well when are we going to put on our big boy pants ourselves? We are Indiana basketball. 5 time National Champions...home of some of the best if not the best high school basketball players in the country. We have state of the art facilities, maybe the best home court in the country fans/arena, respectable academics, beautiful campus, and perhaps the prettiest coeds in the B1G....we have every advantage to have one of the best college basketball programs in the country....Archie has it all...I’m not going to make excuses for finishing 7th, 8th, 9th or worse in our conference alone...much less nationally. If Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, OSU, Michigan, Purdue, Michigan St etc etc are still better than us that is a problem for me. Other schools and coaches have figured out how to rise to the top with much less resources and sometimes much less talent. Find a way. I like our guys and think they are capable of more. I’m ready to see it. I think they can make that jump to the top part of the B1G but if another year goes by and we are losing more games and falling further behind...I won’t have much patience left for Archie. He has the tools....these kids have talent. I think we should be winning more games not less. Sure if you finish at the top you may take a small step back now and then but when you are near the bottom....where we should never be...if you aren’t moving up you are not doing it good enough.

You say it is unacceptable so what are doing to let the administration know of your displeasure.  I get so tired saying fans are settling for mediocrity beca fans for the most part can't change what we see on the court.  To me if this is unacceptable to you you should boycott everything IU until they meet your expectations.