KoB2011 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Don't get me wrong, I like Chris Beard, but why are so many of you sure he's better than Archie? Is it the fact that he is in the bottom half of a significantly worse conference, the fact that his team only has two less losses with a much easier schedule than us, or the 7 spots ahead of us they are in KenPom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 This Freshman class may save CAM should his job be somewhat in jeopardy. If this team plays great down the stretch leading into BIG tourney and makes the big dance you can thank the Freshman. Biggest change point recently? Freshman playing more mins and bringing more energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: Don't get me wrong, I like Chris Beard, but why are so many of you sure he's better than Archie? Is it the fact that he is in the bottom half of a significantly worse conference, the fact that his team only has two less losses with a much easier schedule than us, or the 7 spots ahead of us they are in KenPom? I have no idea if he is or isn't better. What I like is his emotion and fire. Thats what I thought CAM would bring but he hasn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: I have no idea if he is or isn't better. What I like is his emotion and fire. Thats what I thought CAM would bring but he hasn't So you want him to make an ass of himself for you to approve of him? He's plenty fiery; I've seen him argue significantly more than what I ever saw Crean do, anecdotally I'd be shocked if he hasn't had more techs in his 3.5 seasons than Crean had in his entire tenure. Is this really what it's come to for some of you in terms of criticism? I don't know if one of the guys that almost everyone mentions towards the top of their coaching searches is actually a better coach but he can throw a better temper tantrum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: I have no idea if he is or isn't better. What I like is his emotion and fire. Thats what I thought CAM would bring but he hasn't ? http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28766439 Looks pretty fiery there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Come on KOB you’re just agitating now. If you took a poll of nationwide basketball fans or coaches, as between Archie and Beard, it would be overwhelmingly in favor of Beard. Beard is an outstanding coach. He’s coaching at a football school out in the middle of nowhere. His teams outperform their talent level. He’s learned really well. We want Archie to do well but pretending he’s something he’s not won’t do anyone any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said: Come on KOB you’re just agitating now. If you took a poll of nationwide basketball fans or coaches, as between Archie and Beard, it would be overwhelmingly in favor of Beard. Beard is an outstanding coach. He’s coaching at a football school out in the middle of nowhere. His teams outperform their talent level. He’s learned really well. We want Archie to do well but pretending he’s something he’s not won’t do anyone any good. Not sure I agree with the bolded...His Final 4 team had 3 NBA players on it...Last years group, which some might say under performed, had 3 RSCI top 100 kids, and this years group has 4 RSCI top 100 kids and one of the more sought after transfers (McClung)... I think Chris Beard is a good coach...I just think the one we have, long term, will be better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 That’s fair, IUFLA. If I see TTU is on TV, I try to watch if I can. IMO, I’m not blown away by their talent. McClung is a very good player, no question. But I was not very impressed with the individual ability of the other guys. But I see a team that plays well together, with synergy. The sum to me is greater than the individual pieces. Beard also does a great job of filling out his roster every year to fill in the gaps for the roles he needs filled. I think Beard does a great job of what he’s been dealt, and figuring out W’s. There are good things about Archie. I’m not trying to diminish Archie but I don’t see him on the same plane as Beard. Maybe he will be and wouldn’t that be great. I just don’t think very many neutral basketball people would pick Archie over Beard. Not today, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: Come on KOB you’re just agitating now. If you took a poll of nationwide basketball fans or coaches, as between Archie and Beard, it would be overwhelmingly in favor of Beard. Beard is an outstanding coach. He’s coaching at a football school out in the middle of nowhere. His teams outperform their talent level. He’s learned really well. We want Archie to do well but pretending he’s something he’s not won’t do anyone any good. I don't think I'm just agitating and frankly, I'd have expected better from you. The "just agitating" would be the absurd viewpoint that we should long for Beard because he can throw a good two year old tantrum. Look, I think Beard is a really good coach. He might be better than Archie, he might not, I'm genuinely unconvinced on that point. Chris Beard has spent a considerable amount of time less than Archie as a D1 head coach; he's had marginally better success than Archie but took over a better situation at TT and Archie did at IU. I don't look at his recruiting and think he has some big leg up on Archie and I am fairly confident Archie has had his hands tied on roster construction in ways that Beard hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Not sure I agree with the bolded...His Final 4 team had 3 NBA players on it...Last years group, which some might say under performed, had 3 RSCI top 100 kids, and this years group has 4 RSCI top 100 kids and one of the more sought after transfers (McClung)... I think Chris Beard is a good coach...I just think the one we have, long term, will be better... If we as fans hate Archie's offense I don't think we would like Beards that much better. All I saw last night was 5 out and guys going one on one and taking some horrible shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 36 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: So you want him to make an ass of himself for you to approve of him? He's plenty fiery; I've seen him argue significantly more than what I ever saw Crean do, anecdotally I'd be shocked if he hasn't had more techs in his 3.5 seasons than Crean had in his entire tenure. Is this really what it's come to for some of you in terms of criticism? I don't know if one of the guys that almost everyone mentions towards the top of their coaching searches is actually a better coach but he can throw a better temper tantrum? I have noticed that many of my posts seem to get at you a little, wonder why that is???? Its not me that he better worry about trying to impress. I would rather him make an ass of himself as you say than to sit there and look clueless. Go to bat for your guys show some emotion act like you give a rats ass find a way not to lose 12 of 13 since you asked that's what I would like to see from the head basketball coach at Indiana University. Not someone that only gets after the refs when they are walking away from him or at other end of court. The number of techs do not equate to being fiery. He is about as emotional as a dead fish. I have kept that part out of my comments on CAM up to this point but come on if that is fiery then 90% of the head coaches out there must be pure flames constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 40 minutes ago, IUFLA said: ? http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28766439 Looks pretty fiery there... Because we missed a FT he got pissed, nothing about having the backs of his guys. I might have been the worst coach of all time but I guarantee you that not 1 player ever questioned if I had their back and defended them fully if I thought the refs were taking something away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: I have noticed that many of my posts seem to get at you a little, wonder why that is???? Its not me that he better worry about trying to impress. I would rather him make an ass of himself as you say than to sit there and look clueless. Go to bat for your guys show some emotion act like you give a rats ass find a way not to lose 12 of 13 since you asked that's what I would like to see from the head basketball coach at Indiana University. Not someone that only gets after the refs when they are walking away from him or at other end of court. The number of techs do not equate to being fiery. He is about as emotional as a dead fish. I have kept that part out of my comments on CAM up to this point but come on if that is fiery then 90% of the head coaches out there must be pure flames constantly. I'm fairly confident the fact that Archie doesn't worry about you and trying to impress you is a big part of your ax to grind with him. You happen to be one of the most outspoken against him on the board and also happen to not have the same access and treatment under Archie that you've had under other coaches. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, KoB2011 said: I'm fairly confident the fact that Archie doesn't worry about you and trying to impress you is a big part of your ax to grind with him. You happen to be one of the most outspoken against him on the board and also happen to not have the same access and treatment under Archie that you've had under other coaches. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.... You are correct you caught me. I am throwing my 2 year old temper tantrum here instead of in front of the cameras. I can't believe it took this long to be outed. I am very outspoken about results that's for sure. I also like the fire Beard showed last night. I also love how passionate Bob Huggins can be, I love that Cal brings in top players every year, I love that Rick Pitino knows how to coach, I love that Kelvin Sampson seems to get his teams to play so hard does not mean I want any of them to be the coach at IU. It does mean that if I see something I like I will say it and If I see something I don't I am not afraid to say it either. We all want IU to succeed and I am not just the sunshine pumper and if that makes me a bad guy then so be it. I for one don't feel that CAM has brought what I expected him to bring to Indiana Basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: You are correct you caught me. I am throwing my 2 year old temper tantrum here instead of in front of the cameras. I can't believe it took this long to be outed. I am very outspoken about results that's for sure. I also like the fire Beard showed last night. I also love how passionate Bob Huggins can be, I love that Cal brings in top players every year, I love that Rick Pitino knows how to coach, I love that Kelvin Sampson seems to get his teams to play so hard does not mean I want any of them to be the coach at IU. It does mean that if I see something I like I will say it and If I see something I don't I am not afraid to say it either. We all want IU to succeed and I am not just the sunshine pumper and if that makes me a bad guy then so be it. I for one don't feel that CAM has brought what I expected him to bring to Indiana Basketball. So you mentioned four guys that have landed schools into MAJOR NCAA trouble and three of those four would arguably be terrible culture hires, too. Beard I agree is interesting and could be better than Archie, but Archie could be better than him too. My issue with Beard is highlighting his temper tantrum as a a reason to replace Archie. So yeah, if you're going to make post like this or the one knocking Archie because he doesn't get down on the ground and throw a tantrum, I'm going to point out that you seem like a jaded ex-lover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 so much love in the air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: So you mentioned four guys that have landed schools into MAJOR NCAA trouble and three of those four would arguably be terrible culture hires, too. Beard I agree is interesting and could be better than Archie, but Archie could be better than him too. My issue with Beard is highlighting his temper tantrum as a a reason to replace Archie. So yeah, if you're going to make post like this or the one knocking Archie because he doesn't get down on the ground and throw a tantrum, I'm going to point out that you seem like a jaded ex-lover. Because I said I liked the fire. Holy cow!!!! I did not say throw him 10 million and bring him here. I listed several cheaters for a reason. Just because I like something a person does in no way shape or form mean that I think we should hire them. Maybe I don't like CAM for not allowing me access or maybe for being in the bottom half of the league every year, or maybe for losing 12 of 13 games or wasting a year of Morgan and Langford or for his teams not being able to improve at FT shooting or missing out on TK or a lot of other things but you are probably right since you seem to be the "all knowing" probably just the fact I am a jaded ex lover. 😀 If I can't knock him for the bolded part ,with your permission can I knock him for not winning more or does that offend you as well??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 It's like being back at the Rivals board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwtaylor1055 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: It's like being back at the Rivals board. or a PU board, talking about pointless 💩 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just going to drop this here before this conversation goes any further... I think we are all intelligent enough to hold a conversation without the jabs. You’ve all been here long enough to deserve respect from one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: ? http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=28766439 Looks pretty fiery there... Hard to believe PSU was ranked 9th at the time last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: It's like being back at the Rivals board. I've just been doing my best to not argue with the gang that I never agree with. I fought the battle for a while, but some people are exhausting. I'm more curious about what is going on with Hunter and how playing time shakes out today. Mostly I'm thankful to have a reason to start drinking bourbon at 5pm today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 35 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I don't think I'm just agitating and frankly, I'd have expected better from you. The "just agitating" would be the absurd viewpoint that we should long for Beard because he can throw a good two year old tantrum. Look, I think Beard is a really good coach. He might be better than Archie, he might not, I'm genuinely unconvinced on that point. Chris Beard has spent a considerable amount of time less than Archie as a D1 head coach; he's had marginally better success than Archie but took over a better situation at TT and Archie did at IU. I don't look at his recruiting and think he has some big leg up on Archie and I am fairly confident Archie has had his hands tied on roster construction in ways that Beard hasn't. I was watching the game and somehow missed the temper tantrum or even the reason for it. As we both know, getting pulled away from things is simply life as a parent. From what I saw, WVU was just hungrier and quicker to the ball constantly and that’s why they won. Funny how the team that plays that way gets more calls, if that was Beard’s gripe. I honestly have no idea what happened. I had been reading through the posts and there was discussion on Beard’s meltdown and then I took it that you were calling out critics of Archie or Beard fans by taking an outlandish view (to me and surely many others) on Beard vs Archie. I am not taking a shot at you but I took it as a stirring the pot kind of post. The reason I objected is that typically, people criticize results or factors relating to Archie but do not call out posters for believing in Archie. There are people here—certainly not you—who will never utter a concern about a coach or player. I respect that. Also, I don’t think cheap shot attacks are reasonable, but I think this board is above that for the most part. Mostly we have criticisms based on reasons or analysis, whether right or wrong to others. I don’t want to go through an item by item audit of Archie (been there, done that) and what I think Beard can do. We’ve discussed it as nauseum that there is a lot to like about Archie. But it’s not a fair view to mock critics because he’s thrown out some red flags too. IMO the more reasonable view is that Archie has had plenty of follies but we are on the right track because of reasons x and y. Anyway, you know I think you’re extremely smart and I think highly of you. We’ve both said our piece and I just wanted to explain where I was coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: It's like being back at the Rivals board. No coincidence that this happens when Milehi and CC are no longer around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: I was watching the game and somehow missed the temper tantrum or even the reason for it. As we both know, getting pulled away from things is simply life as a parent. From what I saw, WVU was just hungrier and quicker to the ball constantly and that’s why they won. Funny how the team that plays that way gets more calls, if that was Beard’s gripe. I honestly have no idea what happened. I had been reading through the posts and there was discussion on Beard’s meltdown and then I took it that you were calling out critics of Archie or Beard fans by taking an outlandish view (to me and surely many others) on Beard vs Archie. I am not taking a shot at you but I took it as a stirring the pot kind of post. The reason I objected is that typically, people criticize results or factors relating to Archie but do not call out posters for believing in Archie. There are people here—certainly not you—who will never utter a concern about a coach or player. I respect that. Also, I don’t think cheap shot attacks are reasonable, but I think this board is above that for the most part. Mostly we have criticisms based on reasons or analysis, whether right or wrong to others. I don’t want to go through an item by item audit of Archie (been there, done that) and what I think Beard can do. We’ve discussed it as nauseum that there is a lot to like about Archie. But it’s not a fair view to mock critics because he’s thrown out some red flags too. IMO the more reasonable view is that Archie has had plenty of follies but we are on the right track because of reasons x and y. Anyway, you know I think you’re extremely smart and I think highly of you. We’ve both said our piece and I just wanted to explain where I was coming from. Oh I don't disagree with you at all that it's completely fair to criticize Archie's performance and I think a fairly reasonable case can be made that Beard is the better coach, but I'm not convinced it is as open and shut as many want to make it seem. I know we have posters who refuse to accept any criticism of Archie and the team, and I've gone at it with them as well. It's frankly just as unproductive as the posters who want to pick at ridiculous things. My issue was that a poster, who has a public ax to grind because of his newfound lack of access to the program that he himself has talked about, starting picking on things non-performance related. I don't even have a problem with what Beard did, but to say that it's a valid criticism of Archie that he doesn't get down on the ground and throw a fit is honestly just an absurd opinion. And that was from a respected poster that should be better than stooping to that type of criticism. Anyway, I'm bowing out of this discussion for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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