Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[MoyeCowbell]

Many people feel that the development jump between a player's freshman and sophomore year is the biggest. That said, does Mgbako come back? He seems to be gaining confidence and comfort in his game at this level; a solid second year could really move his draft prospect needle.

[tdhoosier]

6 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

I didn't say anything about banking on him. I just listed him as 1 of the 13 scholarships and will likely be the only true combo guard unless woodson targets another. 

My point was being that we may need another combo guard in the portal, in case he can't make it back. 

[MoyeCowbell]

Just now, tdhoosier said:

My point was being that we may need another combo guard in the portal, in case he can't make it back. 

We absolutely do. Even if he does recover, that's a lot of pressure and expectation for someone (unproved at this level) coming off injury.

[ThePaulieWalnuts]

At this point, I’m ok with him gracefully getting canned.  I don’t know who you bring in though.  Not completely sold on Dusty May.  Lewis, Fife, Alford….not sold on another “IU guy” being able to get the job done.  Stevens and Donovan is never happening.  Unless you offer the world to Jay Wright, Scott Drew, Bruce Pearl or someone of that proven caliber, not sold on the ability to bring in anyone any better

Edited January 24 by ThePaulieWalnuts

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, ThePaulieWalnuts said:

At this point, I’m ok with him gracefully getting canned.  I don’t know who you bring in though.  Not completely sold on Dusty May.  Stevens and Donovan is never happening.  Unless you offer the world to Jay Wright, Scott Drew, Bruce Pearl or someone of that proven caliber, not sold on the ability to bring in anyone any better.

Jay Wright has no desire to coach again

[ThePaulieWalnuts]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Jay Wright has no desire to coach again

I know.  He’s just an example.  Need someone proven of a high caliber.  Don’t know who you get to come here tbh that’s proven.  I think we’ve had enough projects (Archie, Woodson, Davis and Crean to a lesser extent) that I wouldn’t feel comfortable going that route again imho.

[mrflynn03]

16 hours ago, Basketball Junkie said:

The guy was saying he knows of 3 families not happy with how Woodson is going about things. 2 of which he says should be slam dunks for IU. The only one specifically named was Sisley and the guy says Michigan St is the team to watch with him.

Seems like Walsh is the primary on Sisley

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/article/college-basketball-trent-sisley-indiana-iowa-notre-dame-225982790/amp/

Indiana: “They were also in early on me. Coach Walsh has been talking with me a lot and coach Woodson as of more recently. They’re both in a pretty good spot with me right now.”

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, DC2345 said:

Agree that some things need to change. That said his scheme has been based on his best players. Last year the 2 best players were TJD and JHS so he used more ball screen actions for those 2. This year the guard play is awful other than Galloway getting down hill and Mgbako spotting up so he's gone with a lot more 2 post actions. I don't like it but that's a product of the roster construction. The defense is a whole different issue. 

I personally think it’s more than just playing to his best players. We take an awful amount of long 2s no matter what our personnel is. We don’t do nearly a good enough job of getting our good shooters a lot of shots no matter what our personnel is.

It is extremely unfair to the players to give them all the blame this season. They aren’t getting put in good positions to succeed. 

[DC2345]

6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I personally think it’s more than just playing to his best players. We take an awful amount of long 2s no matter what our personnel is. We don’t do nearly a good enough job of getting our good shooters a lot of shots no matter what our personnel is.

It is extremely unfair to the players to give them all the blame this season. They aren’t getting put in good positions to succeed. 

I don't put the blame on the players. I put the blame on the coach that constructed the roster that these players are on. I don't understand why so many long 2's are taken. I don't know if Woodson teaches that or just allows it but either why it is a problem. He doesn't do a lot to get guys open shots but again it's likely because he doesn't have guys that he feels comfortable running plays to get shots which again falls back on to how he constructed things in the first place. 

[KoB2011]

14 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

I don't put the blame on the players. I put the blame on the coach that constructed the roster that these players are on. I don't understand why so many long 2's are taken. I don't know if Woodson teaches that or just allows it but either why it is a problem. He doesn't do a lot to get guys open shots but again it's likely because he doesn't have guys that he feels comfortable running plays to get shots which again falls back on to how he constructed things in the first place. 

That’s fair, but if he doesn’t think he’s had guys worth getting shots for he isn’t very smart.

Miller Kopp is getting a good amount more shots per game passing professionally, and still shooting great. Parker Stewart could shoot great. Mgbako is a great shooter. I actually think almost all of our guards and wings have been anywhere from average to very good in terms of shooting under Woodson.

Does he expect the team to shoot like the 2016 team in order for him to tweak the offense to help the shooters?

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, ThePaulieWalnuts said:

I know.  He’s just an example.  Need someone proven of a high caliber.  Don’t know who you get to come here tbh that’s proven.  I think we’ve had enough projects (Archie, Woodson, Davis and Crean to a lesser extent) that I wouldn’t feel comfortable going that route again imho.

So would everyone but it just doesn't happen much anymore. You just don't see coaches who are successful at a power 5 conference leave for another power 5 team

[Inequality]

My issue is coaching college basketball rather than the Kentucky model of only recruiting high level talent with promises of the NBA. That’s recruiting and not coaching. Getting more with less. Building a competent college basketball roster and the respect and ability to teach, develop and adapt. Establishing a winning culture with accountability.

I just think it’s a reasonable expectation to get good basketball when the coach makes 4.5 million and considering the NIL and transfer portal assist a new coach in building a competitive squad quickly. Not to mention the historically iconic branding, alumni support and a basketball rich landscape to recruit from.

I feel like we have uninspiring Archieball but now with IU ties. Unless you’re 60ish, how many had really heard of Woodson. I sure hadn’t. Also, I don’t recall it being made public of any other blue blood programs such as UCLA or any high level programs reaching out to Woodson over the years to bring his wisdom to the college ranks.

In my opinion after having seen Woodson have a go here at IU, some NBA coaches are more of a manager than an actual coach. Not to say that there aren’t really good coaches in the NBA. I just think a team loaded with supreme talent can make any manager look like a great coach.

So to me, wasting more time on hoping the right kids sign is just putting off the inevitable. What happens after they leave for the NBA after year one. We suck again in a down year?
~end soapbox~

[BobSaccamanno]

2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

My point was being that we may need another combo guard in the portal, in case he can't make it back. 

100%.  Would be a colossal error.  If that new point guard gets hurt, you’re back to where you are this year and he would get fired.  Can’t do that.   

[94hoosier]

6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

That’s part of the equation, what’s he going to adjust in his schemes? He had four pro players last year, including a lottery pick point guard and a generational 5, and he didn’t come close to winning the conference or getting out of the first weekend.

There is more that needs to change than just the roster. 

Problem is as good as JHS was he was only a freshman. A very good player and high draft pick. Picked as much because of potential as posed to actual performance. Thompson and Kopp are over seas professionals. Miami’s starting 5 last year will probably be playing professionally at some point in their careers. The truth of it is JHS at the time of playing the Miami game was the 3rd best guard on the floor. Our guard play has killed us the last several years

We need to find a balance of talent and experience. Having pro talent in young players and players with experience that can go on to nba or overseas. 

[KoB2011]

4 minutes ago, 94hoosier said:

Problem is as good as JHS was he was only a freshman. A very good player and high draft pick. Picked as much because of potential as posed to actual performance. Thompson and Kopp are over seas professionals. Miami’s starting 5 last year will probably be playing professionally at some point in their careers. The truth of it is JHS at the time of playing the Miami game was the 3rd best guard on the floor. Our guard play has killed us the last several years

We need to find a balance of talent and experience. Having pro talent in young players and players with experience that can go on to nba or overseas. 

I think in today's environment you're going to struggle to find a much better mix of experience and talent. We had talented veterans that are playing pro ball now. We had talented young guys that got drafted in the lottery, another talented young guard we didn't get much out of that is doing great at another P5 school.

We didn't get the most out of our roster last year, we certainly aren't this year.

I agree Woody needs to address the roster issues, but if that's all he adjusts then we aren't going to get where we want tog. I understand that I am the one who started a thread about firing Woodson, but I'd actually much rather see him make adjustments and have a 3-5 more good years before retiring. I just haven't seen anything to make me think he is willing to make the changes he needs to make. 

[94hoosier]

5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think in today's environment you're going to struggle to find a much better mix of experience and talent. We had talented veterans that are playing pro ball now. We had talented young guys that got drafted in the lottery, another talented young guard we didn't get much out of that is doing great at another P5 school.

We didn't get the most out of our roster last year, we certainly aren't this year.

I agree Woody needs to address the roster issues, but if that's all he adjusts then we aren't going to get where we want tog. I understand that I am the one who started a thread about firing Woodson, but I'd actually much rather see him make adjustments and have a 3-5 more good years before retiring. I just haven't seen anything to make me think he is willing to make the changes he needs to make. 

That makes a lot of sense. Yes we have had a lot of talent the last few years. Tamar oozed talent, just couldn’t put it together with confidence and consistency. He struggled early at Mizzo too but has it going now. We really need that from him last year. We really need Gunn Johnson and Banks to start playing better. Those guys are talented. 

[BADGERVOL]

3 hours ago, Inequality said:

My issue is coaching college basketball rather than the Kentucky model of only recruiting high level talent with promises of the NBA. That’s recruiting and not coaching. Getting more with less. Building a competent college basketball roster and the respect and ability to teach, develop and adapt. Establishing a winning culture with accountability.

I just think it’s a reasonable expectation to get good basketball when the coach makes 4.5 million and considering the NIL and transfer portal assist a new coach in building a competitive squad quickly. Not to mention the historically iconic branding, alumni support and a basketball rich landscape to recruit from.

I feel like we have uninspiring Archieball but now with IU ties. Unless you’re 60ish, how many had really heard of Woodson. I sure hadn’t. Also, I don’t recall it being made public of any other blue blood programs such as UCLA or any high level programs reaching out to Woodson over the years to bring his wisdom to the college ranks.

In my opinion after having seen Woodson have a go here at IU, some NBA coaches are more of a manager than an actual coach. Not to say that there aren’t really good coaches in the NBA. I just think a team loaded with supreme talent can make any manager look like a great coach.

So to me, wasting more time on hoping the right kids sign is just putting off the inevitable. What happens after they leave for the NBA after year one. We suck again in a down year?
~end soapbox~

I think this post absolutely nails it

[IowaHoosierFan]

3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I personally think it’s more than just playing to his best players. We take an awful amount of long 2s no matter what our personnel is. We don’t do nearly a good enough job of getting our good shooters a lot of shots no matter what our personnel is.

It is extremely unfair to the players to give them all the blame this season. They aren’t getting put in good positions to succeed. 

I do not approve of the new Avatar.  Its not what i expected to see and i am a visual person.  i base your identity as a poster on your Avatar.  This is messing with my brain big time.

Edited January 24 by IowaHoosierFan

[KoB2011]

10 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I do not approve of the new Avatar.  Its not what i expected to see and i am a visual person.  i base your identity as a poster on your Avatar.  This is messing with my brain big time.

Dare I ask what you envision for my avatar? 

[Inequality]

14 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I do not approve of the new Avatar.  Its not what i expected to see and i am a visual person.  i base your identity as a poster on your Avatar.  This is messing with my brain big time.

Like my kid says… what kind of dog is that?

[13th&Jackson]

4 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Like my kid says… what kind of dog is that?

It's a horse designed by a committee

[ledies22]

34 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I do not approve of the new Avatar.  Its not what i expected to see and i am a visual person.  i base your identity as a poster on your Avatar.  This is messing with my brain big time.

i agree. @KoB2011 go back to the green letter K lol

[13th&Jackson]

I believe when CMW's tenure at IU ends, whether a year from now or in three years, the odds on favorite for his replacement will be Thad Matta, assuming he's healthy. I think he was the second choice last time (after Stevens), but I don't think he was convinced that he was ready to coach again. But not sure he'd do it if CMW were to be fired. 

"I don't ever like being in the spotlight," Matta said. "But I know in the position I'm in, it comes with the territory. When I went to Bloomington, I didn't want that. I just wanted to be behind the scenes and doing whatever Indiana needed me to do. I didn't want the notoriety of any of that. That's kind of who I am. That is Mike's program and I hopefully did something to help him be successful this year, and most importantly because I fell in love with Indiana, did something to help the future of the program." 

Matta said he believes IU remains in good hands. He said Dolson has become one of his best friends, and that he developed an immense respect for Woodson as a coach, a man and a leader. 

Matta purposefully stayed out of the public eye during the past year while he was in the position, but said taking the job and being part of a college program again inspired him to get back into coaching after five years away. 

"This year, being around it but not in it, was really good for me," Matta said. "Sitting in meetings and watching practice and learning an inordinate amount of basketball from Woody, that kind of got me going again." 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2022/04/07/how-new-butler-coach-thad-matta-helped-indiana-basketball-mike-woodson/9464671002/

[mrflynn03]

When it comes to Coach Woodson and his intentions/desire I think there is something you people forget.  He played in between the 76 and 81 championships.  He led the team over purdoo in the 79 NIT.

Have no doubt the man wants to win a championship.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  NIL isn't the thing you all want it to be. At the end of the day there are only so many players worth a shit. 

[mrflynn03]

11 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I believe when CMW's tenure at IU ends, whether a year from now or in three years, the odds on favorite for his replacement will be Thad Matta, assuming he's healthy. I think he was the second choice last time (after Stevens), but I don't think he was convinced that he was ready to coach again. But not sure he'd do it if CMW were to be fired. 

"I don't ever like being in the spotlight," Matta said. "But I know in the position I'm in, it comes with the territory. When I went to Bloomington, I didn't want that. I just wanted to be behind the scenes and doing whatever Indiana needed me to do. I didn't want the notoriety of any of that. That's kind of who I am. That is Mike's program and I hopefully did something to help him be successful this year, and most importantly because I fell in love with Indiana, did something to help the future of the program." 

Matta said he believes IU remains in good hands. He said Dolson has become one of his best friends, and that he developed an immense respect for Woodson as a coach, a man and a leader. 

Matta purposefully stayed out of the public eye during the past year while he was in the position, but said taking the job and being part of a college program again inspired him to get back into coaching after five years away. 

"This year, being around it but not in it, was really good for me," Matta said. "Sitting in meetings and watching practice and learning an inordinate amount of basketball from Woody, that kind of got me going again." 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2022/04/07/how-new-butler-coach-thad-matta-helped-indiana-basketball-mike-woodson/9464671002/

I like Thad Matta because he's from the town down the road from where my wife is from. 

If we're going to look for another coach anytime though we should take the short drive up to Terre Haute.