Purdue Post Game Thread

[BobSaccamanno]

Miscellany:

1.  To make a football analogy, when the defense doesn’t respect the other team’s quarterback, they bring the safeties down into the box and show an eight man front, just daring the quarterback to throw because they aren’t worried about it.  That’s where we are. The defense is daring us to shoot.  And it’s exacerbated by the weak free throw shooting.  This just isn’t a good shooting team and it’s most likely not getting fixed.  Right now it seems to be in the DNA of the team.  

2.  If you look at the numbers, the dumbest shot in basketball is the long two.  Yet, we take them.  I’d love to see that eliminated from our repertoire except for emergencies.  

3.  I like the recruiting and hopefully these guys will coalesce into a sharp team.  If we are being honest, it’s two years away.  

4.  My one concern is emphasizing shooting in our recruiting and offensive system.  You have to do it in today’s game.  There are enough roster spots for complementary players.  I would have made Brandon Newman a bigger priority just as an example from a pure need standpoint.  If Archie doesn’t believe in the need for shooters and using threes in the arsenal, he’s not going to work out.  

5.  JuWuan Morgan has an interesting proclivity to his game.  He seems to have a need to get a feel for the opponent and the game and hence takes awhile to get going.  If the rest of the team is taking cues from Morgan, the team will get off to a slow start.  This needs addressed.  Having said that, love the player.  He could be a Coach Knight player, who’d love him.  

6.  Zach McRoberts is shooting like he’s gotten the yips.  Yikes. 

7.  Archie may want to talk to Coach Knight about the first five minutes of each half.  That’s been an emphasis here.  We need that back. 

8.  I don’t read what fans say on twitter or anywhere else besides here.  So, I haven’t seen crazy stuff which is ridiculous.  But as for normal angst, welcome to Indiana.  Losing four straight actually is a big deal.  Let Archie, Fred and the players marinate in that.  And we aren’t “due.”   This conference is merciless.  Nothing stops you from losing a couple more this week. 

9.  Romeo.  That’s a whole other discussion. 

10.  Devonte.  He drives us crazy but we need to work to get him some jumpers.  We just have to live with it.  

[slojoe]

21 hours ago, rogue3542 said:

Here's what I see objectively re: Indiana and Purdue - 

Right now, like a lot of Tom Crean coached Indiana teams, Purdue is peaking.  They're hitting shots they have no business hitting, and everything is coming easy and going their way.  I would be surprised to see them playing with this form in late Feb or early March.

Indiana was really coming on strong at the beginning of the season, and then, with all the injuries, they've really struggled to find the fluidity on offense that they had before half the team was injured.  I would be surprised if IU didn't regain some of that fluidity by the end of the year.

There's still a lot of season left.  This loss stings more than any this year because it's Purdue, but we get to play them again in a setting where they won't get the huge advantage the refs gave them today.

Don't fool yourself.  Purdue is very good.  Their offense is elite or almost so.  Edwards knows how to make his teammates better, and like Mark Jackson said, they have guys who can shoot it from downtown.  Their team  defense is not as good as it has been recently.  They had a tough schedule early.  They are a really dangerous team.

IU won't regain the fluidity of their offense unless they start hitting from outside (not likely because it's just who we are).  Another option is getting more offense out of the defense.  Injuries are part of the problem.

What huge advantage from the refs?  We got to foul line more and couldn't convert.  We got many of our fouls trying to drive into a packed lane. 

[rogue3542]

6 minutes ago, slojoe said:

Don't fool yourself.  Purdue is very good.  Their offense is elite or almost so.  Edwards knows how to make his teammates better, and like Mark Jackson said, they have guys who can shoot it from downtown.  Their team  defense is not as good as it has been recently.  They had a tough schedule early.  They are a really dangerous team.

IU won't regain the fluidity of their offense unless they start hitting from outside (not likely because it's just who we are).  Another option is getting more offense out of the defense.  Injuries are part of the problem.

What huge advantage from the refs?  We got to foul line more and couldn't convert.  We got many of our fouls trying to drive into a packed lane. 

I'll just say this; Purdue was allowed to play "physically" in a way that IU was not, and the last two minutes of the first half was one of the most lopsided stretches of officiating I've witnessed this year.  Only Arkansas was worse.

[mchenry34]

1 minute ago, rogue3542 said:

I'll just say this; Purdue was allowed to play "physically" in a way that IU was not, and the last two minutes of the first half was one of the most lopsided stretches of officiating I've witnessed this year.  Only Arkansas was worse.

I agree with the physicality comment...It is often true in basketball that a team that plays physical on the ball and tight to the ball handler will get a way with a great deal more than the teams giving space and seeking merely to contain...

 

[Stlboiler23]

23 hours ago, rogue3542 said:

Here's what I see objectively re: Indiana and Purdue - 

Right now, like a lot of Tom Crean coached Indiana teams, Purdue is peaking.  They're hitting shots they have no business hitting, and everything is coming easy and going their way.  I would be surprised to see them playing with this form in late Feb or early March.

Indiana was really coming on strong at the beginning of the season, and then, with all the injuries, they've really struggled to find the fluidity on offense that they had before half the team was injured.  I would be surprised if IU didn't regain some of that fluidity by the end of the year.

There's still a lot of season left.  This loss stings more than any this year because it's Purdue, but we get to play them again in a setting where they won't get the huge advantage the refs gave them today.

Can you please elaborate on the “they’re hitting shots they have no business hitting?” Overall, Purdue didn’t even shoot it that well yesterday so I’m not sure what you mean by Purdue hitting crazy shots. We ahoy 49% from the field but only 31% from 3. Pretty average shooting day I’d say. 

Also, I think you’re way off saying Purdue had a huge advantage from the refs. If any visiting team is called for 5 less fouls than the home team, I’d disagree that you have much to complain about re fouls. I’ll be extremely surprised if Purdue is called for 5 less fouls at Assembly Hall. You have a lot of things to complain about from yesterday but officiating isn’t one of them. 

[Stlboiler23]

44 minutes ago, rogue3542 said:

I'll just say this; Purdue was allowed to play "physically" in a way that IU was not, and the last two minutes of the first half was one of the most lopsided stretches of officiating I've witnessed this year.  Only Arkansas was worse.

Don’t think that close to true. I saw Carsen Edwards get hacked multiple times going to the rim without anything being called. Again, when the overall fouls were 20 for Purdue and 15 for IU, you really can’t complain if you’re an IU fan. 

[rogue3542]

31 minutes ago, mchenry34 said:

I agree with the physicality comment...It is often true in basketball that a team that plays physical on the ball and tight to the ball handler will get a way with a great deal more than the teams giving space and seeking merely to contain...

 

The thing is, though, you are required, by rule, to give the player a "cylinder." Every time Purdue bodies up a player with the ball, it's a foul, and it's ALL they do, so they're pretty much fouling constantly.  Aaron Craft used to do this all the time.  Sure, he was good at defense, but the refs let him get away with murder because he had the reputation of "good defender."

This was an officiating emphasis in 2016, so it's not like it shouldn't be fresh in referees heads: Article

And you're right, when Purdue is allowed to get away with "pressuring" the ball like that, I feel like the refs subconsciously let other plays go, too chalking them up to "playing physically."  I noticed on a few occasions Purdue players holding IU players, literally grabbing them by the arms and holding, to prevent them getting rebounds, for example.

The flip-side is that if this is going to work, then I guess you could say IU should do it, too, but that's when we get the touch fouls against us.

Wisconsin plays the same way, and Ohio State under Thad Matta was similar in the way they played defense.

I'm definitely not saying this is why IU lost, don't get me wrong on that, but I do get annoyed when good defense is misconstrued with getting away with fouls because you commit so many, which is why I usually hate watching Wisconsin play.

[Stlboiler23]

42 minutes ago, mchenry34 said:

I agree with the physicality comment...It is often true in basketball that a team that plays physical on the ball and tight to the ball handler will get a way with a great deal more than the teams giving space and seeking merely to contain...

 

We were called for 5 more fouls so it makes sense based on how we played we’d be called for more fouls. 

[rogue3542]

Just now, Stlboiler23 said:

Don’t think that close to true. I saw Carsen Edwards get hacked multiple times going to the rim without anything being called. Again, when the overall fouls were 20 for Purdue and 15 for IU, you really can’t complain if you’re an IU fan. 

Would you just stop; you're obviously not going to agree with anything anyone here says, and you have no objectivity whatsoever.

I'm not saying I do, either, but this is an IU board, not a Purdue board.

Purdue was allowed to play much more physically than IU was.

[Stlboiler23]

1 minute ago, rogue3542 said:

The thing is, though, you are required, by rule, to give the player a "cylinder." Every time Purdue bodies up a player with the ball, it's a foul, and it's ALL they do, so they're pretty much fouling constantly.  Aaron Craft used to do this all the time.  Sure, he was good at defense, but the refs let him get away with murder because he had the reputation of "good defender."

This was an officiating emphasis in 2016, so it's not like it shouldn't be fresh in referees heads: Article

And you're right, when Purdue is allowed to get away with "pressuring" the ball like that, I feel like the refs subconsciously let other plays go, too chalking them up to "playing physically."  I noticed on a few occasions Purdue players holding IU players, literally grabbing them by the arms and holding, to prevent them getting rebounds, for example.

The flip-side is that if this is going to work, then I guess you could say IU should do it, too, but that's when we get the touch fouls against us.

Wisconsin plays the same way, and Ohio State under Thad Matta was similar in the way they played defense.

I'm definitely not saying this is why IU lost, don't get me wrong on that, but I do get annoyed when good defense is misconstrued with getting away with fouls because you commit so many, which is why I usually hate watching Wisconsin play.

So Purdue did all of these things yet IU didn’t? I saw Carsen Edwards get hacked multiple times without calls and I saw Romeo get away with that arm-bar clear-out multiple times as well. It goes both ways. Seems like a silly thing to argue when you’re +5 fouls on the road in a rivalry game. 

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

Just now, Stlboiler23 said:

So Purdue did all of these things yet IU didn’t? I saw Carsen Edwards get hacked multiple times without calls and I saw Romeo get away with that arm-bar clear-out multiple times as well. It goes both ways. Seems like a silly thing to argue when you’re +5 fouls on the road in a rivalry game. 

Give it a rest. Take this to your Purdue board.

[Stlboiler23]

1 minute ago, rogue3542 said:

Would you just stop; you're obviously not going to agree with anything anyone here says, and you have no objectivity whatsoever.

I'm not saying I do, either, but this is an IU board, not a Purdue board.

Purdue was allowed to play much more physically than IU was.

I agree with plenty of folks on here. Several folks made some accurate statements regarding the game last night Rico for one. I just think this is a bad take and I’m arguing it. 

[rogue3542]

Just now, Stlboiler23 said:

I agree with plenty of folks on here. Several folks made some accurate statements regarding the game last night Rico for one. I just think this is a bad take and I’m arguing it. 

Go watch the game again, then.

Pay special attention to the last two minutes of the first half.

 

[NCHoosier32]

i have been as anti-Smith as anyone and have to say i thought he was the one bright spot.  McRoberts was better compared to how bad he's been, but still can't understand why he is playing nearly this much.  the FT shooting is inexcusable.  i say that we are not a very good 3 point shooting team, so let's not shoot a lot of them.  i know it is the new way of bball, but we're best when we are slashing to the basket.  the big thing is that we clearly aren't clicking as a team.  have to think there is a cancer among them or multiple cancers?  seems like deep issues that are tough to correct mid season.  we theoretically have a more talented roster than Purdue, but all of their guys pan out.  i hate to admit it, but Painter recruits the right guys and gets the most out of them.  i'm not ready to kick Arch to the curb, but something is clearly missing.  BTW - i know most didn't like him, but i miss GoColts from the old site!

[GaloisGroupe]

Purdue definitely was allowed more physicality during some key stretches. 

Was the officiating horrible? Not for a road game against a rival. Was it why we lost? No, frankly we did not play well and couldn't hit any foul shots.

[mchenry34]

16 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

We were called for 5 more fouls so it makes sense based on how we played we’d be called for more fouls. 

I think that it is difficult to simply go by raw numbers to describe how they game was called and evaluate officials...the raw number of fouls called hides two categories that are pretty essential in assessing officiating...

1) Fouls that were called that ought not to have been called

2) Fouls that were not called but ought to have been

While it is true that Purdue was called for more fouls, and in the end IU has no one to blame but themselves for missing enough Free Throws to impact the game, I think that it is also fair to say that Purdue benefitted from the above two categories. Especially in key moments, like the run at the end of the first half.

[slojoe]

29 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i have been as anti-Smith as anyone and have to say i thought he was the one bright spot.  McRoberts was better compared to how bad he's been, but still can't understand why he is playing nearly this much.  the FT shooting is inexcusable.  i say that we are not a very good 3 point shooting team, so let's not shoot a lot of them.  i know it is the new way of bball, but we're best when we are slashing to the basket.  the big thing is that we clearly aren't clicking as a team.  have to think there is a cancer among them or multiple cancers?  seems like deep issues that are tough to correct mid season.  we theoretically have a more talented roster than Purdue, but all of their guys pan out.  i hate to admit it, but Painter recruits the right guys and gets the most out of them.  i'm not ready to kick Arch to the curb, but something is clearly missing.  BTW - i know most didn't like him, but i miss GoColts from the old site!

I agree that Smith a bright spot yesterday.

I share your frustration on McRoberts.  I think he's in there because of his defense especially shaking some balls loose for possible quick points and his ability to make a play.  But with a team that can't shoot from outside maybe he's not a good fit for this team.

FT shooting.  What FT shooting?

You're right we're best at slashing.  We just don't seem to have any options when the other team clogs the lane like Nebraska and Purdue did.  We can't shoot from out.  We're not getting many dumps for dunks.  Earlier in the year we had some guys cutting to the basket especially Smith, but I haven't seen that lately.  Maybe that's because the lane is clogged.

[hoosiertildeath]

PS , IU has Nine Freshmen and Sophomores  !!! Patience ?

[dbmhoosier]

18 minutes ago, slojoe said:

I agree that Smith a bright spot yesterday.

I share your frustration on McRoberts.  I think he's in there because of his defense especially shaking some balls loose for possible quick points and his ability to make a play.  But with a team that can't shoot from outside maybe he's not a good fit for this team.

FT shooting.  What FT shooting?

You're right we're best at slashing.  We just don't seem to have any options when the other team clogs the lane like Nebraska and Purdue did.  We can't shoot from out.  We're not getting many dumps for dunks.  Earlier in the year we had some guys cutting to the basket especially Smith, but I haven't seen that lately.  Maybe that's because the lane is clogged.

Regarding FTs, weren't we like 16-16 against Maryland?  What happened?

[hoosiertildeath]

Turd -U was called for 20 fouls . Those fartheads commited at least Forty , IMHO! Fischer and Suhr commented at least 20 times how they   could not believe the fartheads were not charged with a foul !!! pee yew is one of the dirtiest playing teams in college ! That is why I LOVE it when those turkies lose to a team that plays as dirty as they do !!!😣 😤😢

[Stlboiler23]

32 minutes ago, hoosiertildeath said:

Turd -U was called for 20 fouls . Those fartheads commited at least Forty , IMHO! Fischer and Suhr commented at least 20 times how they   could not believe the fartheads were not charged with a foul !!! pee yew is one of the dirtiest playing teams in college ! That is why I LOVE it when those turkies lose to a team that plays as dirty as they do !!!😣 😤😢

Lol. One of the dirtiest teams? Even for you that’s pretty funny. 

Not sure if you realize what dirty actually means. 

[Steubenhoosier]

1 hour ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I agree with plenty of folks on here. Several folks made some accurate statements regarding the game last night Rico for one. I just think this is a bad take and I’m arguing it. 

You have been treated more than fairly here over the last two days. Funny how you disappear for long stretches and then come back and flap your mouth after your guys win.

 I can guarantee you that if circumstances were reversed and an IU fan went to GBI acting like you are, things wouldn’t be nearly as civil.

You made your point. You could act like you have some class and leave it at that. Or , you can act like you are. Just realize, when IU beats you next time, it’s open hunting, Imo.

[Stlboiler23]

7 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You have been treated more than fairly here over the last two days. Funny how you disappear for long stretches and then come back and flap your mouth after your guys win.

 I can guarantee you that if circumstances were reversed and an IU fan went to GBI acting like you are, things wouldn’t be nearly as civil.

You made your point. You could act like you have some class and leave it at that. Or , you can act like you are. Just realize, when IU beats you next time, it’s open hunting, Imo.

I was here talking before the game too. Wasn’t just after the game was over. I don’t expect Purdue to win in Bloomington actually. Would surprise me to be honest. 

[slojoe]

53 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Regarding FTs, weren't we like 16-16 against Maryland?  What happened?

We haven't been good at FT line all year hitting only about 65% which is 13th in B1G. 

Against Md. we only had 3 players take FTs who were are among our better FT shooters:  Langford .714 on year was 9 for 9, Green .815 for the year was 5-5, and Phinessee .714 was 2 for 2.

[Lizard]

57 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Lol. One of the dirtiest teams? Even for you that’s pretty funny. 

Not sure if you realize what dirty actually means. 

Uh... take it easy.  Congrats on winning your “super bowl.”   Your guys destroyed IU.  Enjoy it!  Please don’t  show your arse by getting snarky with HTD.