IU Scott Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: In 1989 before Orel's contract Cal Jr was baseball's highest paid player at $2.4M per year. The elite arms make Cal's salary every other start now. Point is this. That much $ involved you have to protect the investment. I won't ever forgive Dusty for running Pryor, Wood, and Zambrano out there for 125 pitches every 5th day and shortening their careers. So the question is this. Do you want 5-6 years of elite pitching for 120 pitches a game....or 12-13 years of 90 pitches per game? Those extra 30 pitches over 30 starts....900 extra pitches a year adds up to some damage. Give me the pitch count. I just don't buy that pitch counts are what causes injuries. I looked at the the pitchers who lead the league in compete games in the 70's and 80's. Majority of them were guys who pitched 12+ years. Gaylord Perry had 194 compete games in the 70's and he put hed 22 years. Juan Marishal had 30 complete games one year and he put hed 16 years. To me injuries start from a young age and having kids specialize in baseball. The pitchers pitch to much during the summers and put to much wear and tear on their arms before they get to high school. I also feel the philosophy of pitching today caused more injuries where it is throw as hard as you can for as long as you can. I think limiting starts to 5 or maybe 6 innings is putting to much stress on the bullpen arms. When I first started watching baseball the pitching staff consisted of 10 pitchers, 5 starters and 5 bullpen arms. Today there are usually at least 13 put hers on a pitching staff. When the bullpen has to cover 3 to 4 innings a game it will put a lot of stress on their arms. Lastly if they have these pitch count limits they need to teach the starters to be more pitch efficient. Instead of trying to strike everyone out try to get outs on 2-3 pitches. It seems like pitchers get ahead of the count then try to nibble or try to make the perfect pitch which leads to going deep in the count Edited July 9, 2022 by IU Scott 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 In addition to what @IU Scott says, they should teach pitchers not to commit cheesey balks... I think the Rays-Reds home plate ump had a dinner reservation somewhere... A Roboump wouldn't have made that call 😉 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 MLB's antitrust exemption... https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/minor-league-advocate-calls-for-protection-from-mlbs-antitrust-exemption-in-response-to-u-s-senators/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 9 hours ago, IU Scott said: I just don't buy that pitch counts are what causes injuries. I looked at the the pitchers who lead the league in compete games in the 70's and 80's. Majority of them were guys who pitched 12+ years. Gaylord Perry had 194 compete games in the 70's and he put hed 22 years. Juan Marishal had 30 complete games one year and he put hed 16 years. I'm afraid to Google the meaning of 'put hed'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I'm afraid to Google the meaning of 'put hed'. Much less "put hers." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 10 hours ago, IU Scott said: To me injuries start from a young age and having kids specialize in baseball. The pitchers pitch to much during the summers and put to much wear and tear on their arms before they get to high school. I also feel the philosophy of pitching today caused more injuries where it is throw as hard as you can for as long as you can. I think limiting starts to 5 or maybe 6 innings is putting to much stress on the bullpen arms. Kind of similar to what I said about number of pitches,etc....preserving the arm over time. These coaches know how much kids are throwing before they even get to the farm system. Only a few ways out of this for MLB. One is to expand rosters and allow for more pitchers. Problem there is that means more substitutions, more delays, longer games....and nobody wants that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 @TheWatShot: Your Tigers are putting together a nice little run right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 After reading a bit more about the Rays-Reds debacle, I'm stumped.. So an umpire can say he "thought" the pitcher "flinched" and call a balk that ends the game? Are you kidding me? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 If the Rays finish one game out of the playoffs, they can thank Edwin Moscoso... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: After reading a bit more about the Rays-Reds debacle, I'm stumped.. So an umpire can say he "thought" the pitcher "flinched" and call a balk that ends the game? Are you kidding me? I look at it this way. If the Reds win, it's a good call. If they lose on the same play, it's total bullship. Saw somewhere that it was the 23rd 'balk-off' in MLB history. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 Top 50 trade candidates: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/07/top-50-trade-mlb-trade-candidates.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, rico said: Top 50 trade candidates: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/07/top-50-trade-mlb-trade-candidates.html Whatever the Reds end up getting for Castillo, it won't be enough. Dude is just elite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Whatever the Reds end up getting for Castillo, it won't be enough. Dude is just elite. When was the last time the Reds made a decent trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, rico said: When was the last time the Reds made a decent trade? I almost went back to getting Sean Casey, but then I remembered they got Brandon Phillips in a trade from Cleveland as well. I don't remember who they traded to get him. That would have been in 2006. There could be something since then, but that's the last one I distinctly remember. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I almost went back to getting Sean Casey, but then I remembered they got Brandon Phillips in a trade from Cleveland as well. I don't remember who they traded to get him. That would have been in 2006. There could be something since then, but that's the last one I distinctly remember. Suarez is the one I came up with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 17 minutes ago, rico said: When was the last time the Reds made a decent trade? 13 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I almost went back to getting Sean Casey, but then I remembered they got Brandon Phillips in a trade from Cleveland as well. I don't remember who they traded to get him. That would have been in 2006. There could be something since then, but that's the last one I distinctly remember. OK. I did some research and there have been 2 trades since they got Phillips in 2006 that have been what I would call 'successful'. And, by successful, the Reds acquired a player that performed solidly over a multiple year stretch (Guys like Duvall and Castellanos don't count because they were there for such a short time). Getting Suarez from the Tigers Getting Castillo, himself, from the Marlins. It just makes me sick that they Reds have such an elite foundational piece such as Castillo and are basically going to give him up for unproven commodities that will likely not pan out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: OK. I did some research and there have been 2 trades since they got Phillips in 2006 that have been what I would call 'successful'. And, by successful, the Reds acquired a player that performed solidly over a multiple year stretch (Guys like Duvall and Castellanos don't count because they were there for such a short time). Getting Suarez from the Tigers Getting Castillo, himself, from the Marlins. It just makes me sick that they Reds have such an elite foundational piece such as Castillo and are basically going to give him up for unproven commodities that will likely not pan out. That is modern baseball where most trades are proven players for prospects. Castillo has ace stuff but doesn't always translate to wins. Do you want to resign him to a 5 year/100+ million contract for a 30 year old pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Seeking6 said: Kind of similar to what I said about number of pitches,etc....preserving the arm over time. These coaches know how much kids are throwing before they even get to the farm system. Only a few ways out of this for MLB. One is to expand rosters and allow for more pitchers. Problem there is that means more substitutions, more delays, longer games....and nobody wants that. The thing is I might agree about pitch count limits if it actually helped eliminate injuries but it obvious it hasn't. Remember earlier on the year the discussion about taking Kershaw out with a no hitter saying they need to protect him. Well a month later he went on the DL so babying him didn't prevent the injuries. Also if starting pitchers are only going 5-6 innings why give them huge contracts since starting pitchers are being devalued. Edited July 9, 2022 by IU Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, IU Scott said: That is modern baseball where most trades are proven players for prospects. Castillo has ace stuff but doesn't always translate to wins. Do you want to resign him to a 5 year/100+ million contract for a 30 year old pitcher. I get what you are saying about the prospects and I would say the reason for that is service time. Teams don't let their young guys be back-ups at the major league level. Castillo is an ace on a bad team(Mario Soto comes to mind). Thus his W-L record is highly skewed. As far as a long term contract, the Reds are piss poor at determining who deserves one and who doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: @TheWatShot: Your Tigers are putting together a nice little run right now. One of these years, they might finally figure out that April and May games count and starting 10-25 isn't a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, IU Scott said: That is modern baseball where most trades are proven players for prospects. Castillo has ace stuff but doesn't always translate to wins. Do you want to resign him to a 5 year/100+ million contract for a 30 year old pitcher. If you're not going to commit to trying to compete, then you should not be in the game. And, making good investments is different than handing out bad contracts. Give the choice of having 3-4 prospects, one of which MIGHT work out or one of the following pitchers over 30, which would you take? Justin Verlander Max Scherzer Adam Wainwright Gerrit Cole I'll take the proven talent that helps me when now every single time. That's why the Astros, Mets, Cardinals, and Yankees are headed to the playoffs and the Reds aren't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 9, 2022 Report Share Posted July 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, 5fouls said: If you're not going to commit to trying to compete, then you should not be in the game. And, making good investments is different than handing out bad contracts. Give the choice of having 3-4 prospects, one of which MIGHT work out or one of the following pitchers over 30, which would you take? Justin Verlander Max Scherzer Adam Wainwright Gerrit Cole I'll take the proven talent that helps me when now every single time. That's why the Astros, Mets, Cardinals, and Yankees are headed to the playoffs and the Reds aren't. I would to but that is life as a small market team in baseball. At the time giving Votto the 10/250 Million seemed like the good idea but the last few years it has hampered the team. St Louis had the same dilemma with Pulos and let him go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 Reds beat TB in 10 innings for the second day in a row. Until this week the Reds didn't have a walk off win but they have 4 this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted July 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: Reds beat TB in 10 innings for the second day in a row. Until this week the Reds didn't have a walk off win but they have 4 this week. Starting their push to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted July 10, 2022 Report Share Posted July 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Starting their push to the playoffs. Maybe for the 2030 season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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