2024 Flory Bidunga Commits to Kansas

[Drroogh]

23 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

That don't have anything to do with Lively being a one and done. So was JHS being a one and done mean Woodson was on the shirt tail of Miller.

I new better, won’t happen again.

[IUCrazy2]

56 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

That don't have anything to do with Lively being a one and done. So was JHS being a one and done mean Woodson was on the shirt tail of Miller.

Two years out from Miller, no.

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Lively was a one and done

I'd say he's no more a one & done than when he enrolled at Duke.  Consider these stats:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dereck-lively-ii-1.html

He's almost assuredly being drafted on potential as it would be hard to argue there was a lot of development given that stat line.  In all honesty, his stat line isn't a lot different than Malik Reneau, who wasn't really projected as a one & done:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/malik-reneau-1.html

Scheyer was a guard.  Makes me wonder how strong Duke's development program for bigs is at this point.  Lively was the RSCI #2 coming out of HS and Filipowski (who's coming back) was #4.  Reneau for comparison slots in at #26.  Bottom line...I don't think Scheyer is anything exceptional as a coach at this point.  He did a great job aggregating talent like Calipari, but it remains to be seen if he can really coach and develop that talent once he gets it there.  If I'm a recruit, I'm surely having the same questions...if this still a Coach K program?  When the momentum from K fades, can Scheyer create his own mojo?  If not, eventually, he'll struggle for recruits.

[IU Scott]

31 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Two years out from Miller, no.

So was Davis going to the championship which was an example

[IUCrazy2]

36 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So was Davis going to the championship which was an example

It is as simple as this, Scheyer isn't Coach K.  He doesn't have a history of putting big men in the NBA.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/2023-nba-draft-handful-of-duke-prospects-with-opportunity-to-make-the-jump#gid=ci02ba8f570000273e&pid=usatsi_19516261

The dudes that went are almost all based on the same potential they had before they got to Duke.

He isn't Coach K, he is riding his recruiting coattails.  He may eventually turn into something or he may become Mike Davis if he doesn't get that figured out and people catch on.

 

 

[ledies22]

5 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

It is as simple as this, Scheyer isn't Coach K.  He doesn't have a history of putting big men in the NBA.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/2023-nba-draft-handful-of-duke-prospects-with-opportunity-to-make-the-jump#gid=ci02ba8f570000273e&pid=usatsi_19516261

The dudes that went are almost all based on the same potential they had before they got to Duke.

He isn't Coach K, he is riding his recruiting coattails.  He may eventually turn into something or he may become Mike Davis if he doesn't get that figured out and people catch on.

 

 

Kinda like Cal in the past. Everyone thought he did nothing but produce NBA talent, when in actuality he recruited NBA talent out of high school to play for a year.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

It is as simple as this, Scheyer isn't Coach K.  He doesn't have a history of putting big men in the NBA.

https://www.si.com/nba/draft/newsfeed/2023-nba-draft-handful-of-duke-prospects-with-opportunity-to-make-the-jump#gid=ci02ba8f570000273e&pid=usatsi_19516261

The dudes that went are almost all based on the same potential they had before they got to Duke.

He isn't Coach K, he is riding his recruiting coattails.  He may eventually turn into something or he may become Mike Davis if he doesn't get that figured out and people catch on.

 

 

I never said he was coach K but it was said he never coached a one and done which isn't correct.

[IUCrazy2]

32 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I never said he was coach K but it was said he never coached a one and done which isn't correct.

True, based on the NBA draft article he coached one poorly.

[IU Scott]

33 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

True, based on the NBA draft article he coached one poorly.

I doubt guys like Flory cares one bit because all they look at is results. I don't see why he would pick Duke over IU right now but I am not a 18 year old basketball player.

[FKIM01]

19 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I doubt guys like Flory cares one bit because all they look at is results. I don't see why he would pick Duke over IU right now but I am not a 18 year old basketball player.

If I were looking at results and studied Lively, I would not choose Duke.  Lively did not develop very well in his one season at Duke.

...but as you said, neither of us are 18-year-old basketball players.  Who knows what their reasoning looks like.  All I know is from a rational standpoint, Likely would not appear to be an example of successful development in the Duke program.

[Steubenhoosier]

The bottom line is that based on the last 20 years or so there is a lot more cachet in going to Duke. CMW is working to change that dynamic but for all of Flory’s life, that’s been the case.

[Seeking6]

I'd still like to know the behind the scene stuff on this one. I know @DC2345 has hinted at some stuff and maybe in time he'll share. Just seems like the kid is being told where to go. 

[btownqb]

I'm not enamored with Flory at all, and don't see him as instant impact. I think he's Cliff Emoryi at best. I just don't see him as an elite prospect. I think he's a really good reb, rim protector, and can operate as a modern 5.... 

But, I feel there is a low ceiling. Just my thoughts.  

[DC2345]

18 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

I'd still like to know the behind the scene stuff on this one. I know @DC2345 has hinted at some stuff and maybe in time he'll share. Just seems like the kid is being told where to go. 

If he ends up at Duke it will be his own decision. 

[IUfaninIllinois]

7 hours ago, btownqb said:

I'm not enamored with Flory at all, and don't see him as instant impact. I think he's Cliff Emoryi at best. I just don't see him as an elite prospect. I think he's a really good reb, rim protector, and can operate as a modern 5.... 

But, I feel there is a low ceiling. Just my thoughts.  

I 1000% agree. I’m actually the same in regards to Xavier Booker.

[FKIM01]

7 hours ago, btownqb said:

I'm not enamored with Flory at all, and don't see him as instant impact. I think he's Cliff Emoryi at best. I just don't see him as an elite prospect. I think he's a really good reb, rim protector, and can operate as a modern 5.... 

But, I feel there is a low ceiling. Just my thoughts.  

 

10 minutes ago, IUfaninIllinois said:

I 1000% agree. I’m actually the same in regards to Xavier Booker.

...and I don't have enough information to disagree.  I've heard he's a little raw but very athletic.  I understand potential, but what is causing him to be ranked right at the top of the class?  You'd think he'd be a double digit scorer on any team as a freshman the way he's rated.

...or is he simply overrated?  I don't know.  I'm just puzzled as to why he's so highly rated if he's not a very polished player.  50 inch vertical?  What gives here?

[Seeking6]

1 hour ago, DC2345 said:

If he ends up at Duke it will be his own decision. 

Thank you and good for the kid. If Duke is what he wants it's not like it's a bad choice. We'll have plenty of targets to secure for sure.

[btownqb]

19 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

 

...and I don't have enough information to disagree.  I've heard he's a little raw but very athletic.  I understand potential, but what is causing him to be ranked right at the top of the class?  You'd think he'd be a double digit scorer on any team as a freshman the way he's rated.

...or is he simply overrated?  I don't know.  I'm just puzzled as to why he's so highly rated if he's not a very polished player.  50 inch vertical?  What gives here?

I'd be willing to bet he isn't a double digit scorer as a FR. Past that, it's simply opinion from watching him. There are specifics to that opinion, obviously... 

-he's one shoulder in the post 

I don't think he has another developed offensive skill. Oreb, catching lobs sure (I did mention he can play a modern 5).. I don't see anyone running offense through him, especially next season. Compare him to a Jabari Smith (on the basis of they're both tall and highly ranked)... Jabari is worlds more skilled. 

Now... maybe Flory is great verison of Cliff Emoryi, maybe Oscar Tsh? 

This is all speaking offensively. Defensively.. yeah, really good. And could be incredible. 

Hanner Perea, imo, is a great comparison... 🤷‍♂️

 

[rico]

29 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

 

 

...or is he simply overrated?  I don't know.  I'm just puzzled as to why he's so highly rated if he's not a very polished player.  50 inch vertical?  What gives here?

Is that you Khristian Lander?

[IU Scott]

54 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

 

...and I don't have enough information to disagree.  I've heard he's a little raw but very athletic.  I understand potential, but what is causing him to be ranked right at the top of the class?  You'd think he'd be a double digit scorer on any team as a freshman the way he's rated.

...or is he simply overrated?  I don't know.  I'm just puzzled as to why he's so highly rated if he's not a very polished player.  50 inch vertical?  What gives here?

The #1 player in last year's class only averaged 6 points a game as a freshman last year. Derick Lively was 7'0 and really athletic but was raw on the offensive end. Players get ranked high because of traits and athletic ability over basketball ability.

[FKIM01]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The #1 player in last year's class only averaged 6 points a game as a freshman last year. Derick Lively was 7'0 and really athletic but was raw on the offensive end. Players get ranked high because of traits and athletic ability over basketball ability.

Don't disagree.  Makes me wonder if that's not a flaw in the rating system.  If I'm a coach and have a chance to get Bidunga, Lively or someone similar, seems like more of a crapshoot with bigs.  Greg Oden was freaking awesome as a freshman.  Lively didn't pan out at all from what I can see and likely hurt his draft stock with a "meh" season (haven't checked...just a hunch).

With all that said, I can see why a coach would rather have a more polished Queen over a Bidunga, especially if you only have them for a single season.  I hired a college graduate a year ago May.  Just got him to the point of being fairly productive and another company hired him away from me.  Had I known that would happen when I hired him, I wouldn't have.  Makes me think you'd better be very careful with the one-and-dones you recruit.  If Bidunga ends up being a better between the ears version of Hanner Perea, that's not all that appealing to me personally.  

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Don't disagree.  Makes me wonder if that's not a flaw in the rating system.  If I'm a coach and have a chance to get Bidunga, Lively or someone similar, seems like more of a crapshoot with bigs.  Greg Oden was freaking awesome as a freshman.  Lively didn't pan out at all from what I can see and likely hurt his draft stock with a "meh" season (haven't checked...just a hunch).

With all that said, I can see why a coach would rather have a more polished Queen over a Bidunga, especially if you only have them for a single season.  I hired a college graduate a year ago May.  Just got him to the point of being fairly productive and another company hired him away from me.  Had I known that would happen when I hired him, I wouldn't have.  Makes me think you'd better be very careful with the one-and-dones you recruit.  If Bidunga ends up being a better between the ears version of Hanner Perea, that's not all that appealing to me personally.  

He certainly didn’t help his draft stock…right now he has been mocked around the end of the lottery…13-17 range…obviously in that range he could easily fall if teams in that range don’t need a 5.

[Indykev]

6 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Don't disagree.  Makes me wonder if that's not a flaw in the rating system.  If I'm a coach and have a chance to get Bidunga, Lively or someone similar, seems like more of a crapshoot with bigs.  Greg Oden was freaking awesome as a freshman.  Lively didn't pan out at all from what I can see and likely hurt his draft stock with a "meh" season (haven't checked...just a hunch).

With all that said, I can see why a coach would rather have a more polished Queen over a Bidunga, especially if you only have them for a single season.  I hired a college graduate a year ago May.  Just got him to the point of being fairly productive and another company hired him away from me.  Had I known that would happen when I hired him, I wouldn't have.  Makes me think you'd better be very careful with the one-and-dones you recruit.  If Bidunga ends up being a better between the ears version of Hanner Perea, that's not all that appealing to me personally.  

Guys that are ranking these kids were picked last on the playground in school. They catch them on a good weekend some where and the kid shoots up the charts. most kids are only seen a couple of times in the summer. Thats why you see different rankings that are from a part from each other. ESPN might rank a kid 5th, rivals ranks him 25th. Meaningless.

[IUfaninIllinois]

8 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

 

...and I don't have enough information to disagree.  I've heard he's a little raw but very athletic.  I understand potential, but what is causing him to be ranked right at the top of the class?  You'd think he'd be a double digit scorer on any team as a freshman the way he's rated.

...or is he simply overrated?  I don't know.  I'm just puzzled as to why he's so highly rated if he's not a very polished player.  50 inch vertical?  What gives here?

I think people get obsessed with dunking because it looks so athletic and powerful. Booker is lazy to me and not a high motor. I think if anyone can get that to be elevated it’s Izzo though

[dgambill]

15 hours ago, Indykev said:

Guys that are ranking these kids were picked last on the playground in school. They catch them on a good weekend some where and the kid shoots up the charts. most kids are only seen a couple of times in the summer. Thats why you see different rankings that are from a part from each other. ESPN might rank a kid 5th, rivals ranks him 25th. Meaningless.

Imo there are a few that are usually head and shoulders above…but you get a lot of players outside say that top 15 or so and there isn’t much difference to the naked eye (scout) so they just watch who is recruiting paying attention to them and if it’s the Dukes, UK, etc they will just shoot them to the top regardless if they deserve it or not.