2024 F Liam McNeeley Decommits from Indiana

[IU Scott]

52 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I wonder what odds you could get on whether he makes that Texas visit.

 

100%

[Madison22]

Nice write-up by TheDailyHoosier.

Texas and Kansas can't be overlooked.

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/report-indicates-2024-5-star-liam-mcneeley-has-scheduled-two-more-official-visits/

[NY hoosier]

Still a long way to go on this one

[Seeking6]

17 hours ago, Madison22 said:

Nice write-up by TheDailyHoosier.

Texas and Kansas can't be overlooked.

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/report-indicates-2024-5-star-liam-mcneeley-has-scheduled-two-more-official-visits/

We've dibbled a bit over the year in elite elite recruiting but mostly those have been homestate kids besides the Bryants/Vonlehs of the world.

To be in this world the stomach needs to be strong. Obviously something is very appealing to kids like JHS, Ware, Malik, and now Mack. We just need to do our best and go from there. Still feel we are in a great spot but Texas and playing at home is a tough one to overcome....even for Montverde guys who haven't played at home in years.

[BADGERVOL]

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

We've dibbled a bit over the year in elite elite recruiting but mostly those have been homestate kids besides the Bryants/Vonlehs of the world.

To be in this world the stomach needs to be strong. Obviously something is very appealing to kids like JHS, Ware, Malik, and now Mack. We just need to do our best and go from there. Still feel we are in a great spot but Texas and playing at home is a tough one to overcome....even for Montverde guys who haven't played at home in years.

Top programs recruit nationally and land out of state kids regularly. Maybe we get him maybe we don’t and obviously for many the lure of playing at home is a big deal or at least some kind of pull. But the mindset has to be that plenty are willing to go away and some even kinda want to. The top programs don’t think “well we’ll recruit some five stars and maybe get lucky here and there but it’s a long shot.”

 

If IU wants to compete for national titles we have to land guys like this semi regularly. Time to turn that corner and start landing some. And this sure sounds like it’s a good shot to do so

Edited August 29, 2023 by BADGERVOL

[Seeking6]

5 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Top programs recruit nationally and land out of state kids regularly. Maybe we get him maybe we don’t and obviously for many the lure of playing at home is a big deal or at least some kind of pull. But the mindset has to be that plenty are willing to go away and some even kinda want to. The top programs don’t think “well we’ll recruit some five stars and maybe get lucky here and there but it’s a long shot.”

 

If IU wants to compete for national titles we have to land guys like this semi regularly. Time to turn that corner and start landing some. And this sure sounds like it’s a good shot to do so

Maybe it didn't come across this way but my point was we've landed more elite out of state kids under Coach Woodson than we have in decades minus the two I pointed out. Coach has us in the right circles again.

In terms of Liam though. He seems like the first domino...but I can't imagine we'll know anything until October 1st at the earliest.

[BADGERVOL]

25 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Maybe it didn't come across this way but my point was we've landed more elite out of state kids under Coach Woodson than we have in decades minus the two I pointed out. Coach has us in the right circles again.

In terms of Liam though. He seems like the first domino...but I can't imagine we'll know anything until October 1st at the earliest.

Agreed…I remember landing the Charlie Miller’s, Andre Patterson’s, and SO many more. Not just Midwest but across the country.

I personally wonder if us not landing many from far away flat out had to do more with how crappy our coaches were 😂 Sidenote: I’d really like to land this kid and see him begin to get us back to landing these kids NATIONALLY. 💪🏻

Edited August 29, 2023 by BADGERVOL

[Drroogh]

25 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Agreed…I remember landing the Charlie Miller’s, Andre Patterson’s, and SO many more. Not just Midwest but across the country.

I personally wonder if us not landing many from far away flat out had to do more with how crappy our coaches were 😂 Sidenote: I’d really like to land this kid and see him begin to get us back to landing these kids NATIONALLY. 💪🏻

I think JHS, Malik, Kelel and Mackenzie say hello!

[NY hoosier]

I believe he said he wants to see teams play this season before he decides

[Proud2BAHoosier]

21 minutes ago, NY hoosier said:

I believe he said he wants to see teams play this season before he decides

Let's hope he likes what he sees.....

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, BADGERVOL said:

Agreed…I remember landing the Charlie Miller’s, Andre Patterson’s, and SO many more. Not just Midwest but across the country.

I personally wonder if us not landing many from far away flat out had to do more with how crappy our coaches were 😂 Sidenote: I’d really like to land this kid and see him begin to get us back to landing these kids NATIONALLY. 💪🏻

It was really just Archie Miller that didn't land out of state kids. Davis, Sampson and Crean all got plenty of them. 

But agree with everyone, we need to be recruiting elite talent nationally. 

[jay edwards brother]

Hey Badgervol what happened with the kid from Spain ? didn't work out or still in play?

[IUFLA]

44 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It was really just Archie Miller that didn't land out of state kids.

Race Thompson, Jake Forrester, Jerome Hunter, Jordan Geronimo...

 

[Drroogh]

8 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Race Thompson, Jake Forrester, Jerome Hunter, Jordan Geronimo...

 

I remember when I chose Jake to be the X factor for the season!? I don’t partake anymore! At least Race turned out solid!

[BADGERVOL]

28 minutes ago, jay edwards brother said:

Hey Badgervol what happened with the kid from Spain ? didn't work out or still in play?

Idk what you’re talking about 🤷🏻‍♂️

[BGleas]

12 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Race Thompson, Jake Forrester, Jerome Hunter, Jordan Geronimo...

 

Not sure if you're being serious or not?

Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson certainly fit. Though an argument could be made that they're both still Midwest/regional. 

Crean and Sampson were pulling numerous McDonald's All-Americans and top 50ish recruits from out of market. 

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Not sure if you're being serious or not?

Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson certainly fit. Though an argument could be made that they're both still Midwest/regional. 

Crean and Sampson were pulling numerous McDonald's All-Americans and top 50ish recruits from out of market. 

I am being serious...You can criticize Miller in a lot of ways (development, usage, overall game plans) but he did get kids outside of Indiana...Along with Trayce, Romeo, and Lander, who were the in state cream of the crop if Iremember right...

I don't think his recruiting was the issue...

And you didn't say, "out of region kids."  

[go_iu_bb]

22 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I am being serious...You can criticize Miller in a lot of ways (development, usage, overall game plans) but he did get kids outside of Indiana...Along with Trayce, Romeo, and Lander, who were the in state cream of the crop if Iremember right...

I don't think his recruiting was the issue...

And you didn't say, "out of region kids."  

Player evaluation is part of recruiting and Miller was not very good at that. He recruited a lot of busts - both players he landed and those he missed on.

[BGleas]

31 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I am being serious...You can criticize Miller in a lot of ways (development, usage, overall game plans) but he did get kids outside of Indiana...Along with Trayce, Romeo, and Lander, who were the in state cream of the crop if Iremember right...

I don't think his recruiting was the issue...

And you didn't say, "out of region kids."  

I believe pretty much everyone was saying we needed to recruit at at an elite level nationally. That doesn't mean just any out of state player. Forrester and Geronimo were not "elite" out of state recruits. 

I'll give you Thompson and Hunter for sure though, especially Hunter. 

But Miller wasn't bringing in the level of out of state recruits that Sampson, Crean and Woodson have. 

Those guys brought in out of state McDonald's AA's and top 50 recruits. 

[IUFLA]

30 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

Player evaluation is part of recruiting and Miller was not very good at that. He recruited a lot of busts - both players he landed and those he missed on.

A lot of the recruiting services/gurus aren't either I guess...

Miller's first class was 

Race (His)

Al Durham (Crean's)

Justin Smith (Crean's)

Clifton Moore (Crean's)

The guy Miller got (Race) turned out to be pretty good...I don't know if I'd call Al or Justin "busts" but Clifton Moore fits that bill

His first class of his own was the 10th ranked class nationally, and 2nd in the Big 10...

Romeo

Hunter

Anderson

Phinisee

Forrester

Romeo may not have lived up to our lofty expectations, but he wasn't a bust...Hunter had the leg issues which I think really derailed his career...Phinisee didn't live up to expectations and I think the concussions had something to do with that...Forrester and Anderson, yeah, busts...

Trayce and Armaan can't be on that list...And that was actually his lowest rated class (56 nationally and 8th in the Big 10)

Lander, Geronimo, Leal, Galloway...were the 15th ranked class nationally and 2nd in the Big 10...Lander was a definite bust...I don't think the expectations for Leal were all that high, and Geronimo might not have become what we thought he would, but he also didn't develop any more under Woody than he did under Miller...

The only guy in his last class was Duncomb...Not gonna say anything to suffer the wrath of Nana  

I don't know...Like I said, I put it more into the development camp, and trying to coach more talented recruits like he did the classes he had at Dayton...

JMO...

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by IUFLA

[IUFLA]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I believe pretty much everyone was saying we needed to recruit at at an elite level nationally. That doesn't mean just any out of state player. Forrester and Geronimo were not "elite" out of state recruits. 

I'll give you Thompson and Hunter for sure though, especially Hunter. 

But Miller wasn't bringing in the level of out of state recruits that Sampson, Crean and Woodson have. 

Those guys brought in out of state McDonald's AA's and top 50 recruits. 

And I'm not against Woody expanding not only nationally, or going after top guys...Not at all...

And if I remember right, Miller had 2 McDonald's AAs that he recruited (Romeo, Trayce) in 4 years...That's not bad...

I just think Miller thought he had to absolutely kill it in state to win the fans over,,,and so his focus was there...And he did get 3 of the most highly touted High Schoolers from in state during that time...

I explained what I thought Archie's issues were above...

 

[BGleas]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

A lot of the recruiting services/gurus aren't either I guess...

Miller's first class was 

Race (His)

Al Durham (Crean's)

Justin Smith (Crean's)

Clifton Moore (Crean's)

The guy Miller got (Race) turned out to be pretty good...I don't know if I'd call Al or Justin "busts" but Clifton Moore fits that bill

His first class of his own was the 10th ranked class nationally, and 2nd in the Big 10...

Romeo

Hunter

Anderson

Phinisee

Forrester

Romeo may not have lived up to our lofty expectations, but he wasn't a bust...Hunter had the leg issues which I think really derailed his career...Phinisee didn't live up to expectations and I think the concussions had something to do with that...Forrester and Anderson, yeah, busts...

Trayce and Armaan can't be on that list...And that was actually his lowest rated class (56 nationally and 8th in the Big 10)

Lander, Geronimo, Leal, Galloway...were the 15th ranked class nationally and 2nd in the Big 10...Lander was a definite bust...I don't think the expectations for Leal were all that high, and Geronimo might not have become what we thought he would, but he also didn't develop any more under Woody than he did under Miller...

The only guy in his last class was Duncomb...Not gonna say anything to suffer the wrath of Nana  

I don't know...Like I said, I put it more into the development camp, and trying to treat more talented recruits like he did the classes he had at Dayton...

JMO...

 

My pushback on that would be that when I think of how well coaches recruit, it obviously comes down to who they land, but it also comes down to who they missed on. You might get a decent class but if you missed on your 1st, 2nd and 3rd options to get there then you're probably not as talented as you hoped to be. 

Take that last Miller class for example, you know I'm a big Galloway fan, but for a coach that struggled with guard play for most of 4 years at IU, Galloway and Leal combined isn't really a great guard/wing haul. Miller also missed on a ton of highly ranked guards and wings in those classes that he targeted before landing on Galloway and Leal. 

Remember back to that time, we were all wondering for months and months if Miller was even going to offer Galloway and Leal because he was holding out while chasing much higher ranked players nationally. He missed on all of those guys and then took Galloway and Leal. 

That's part of the recruiting story and evaluating how well a coach is recruiting. 

[BGleas]

11 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And I'm not against Woody expanding not only nationally, or going after top guys...Not at all...

And if I remember right, Miller had 2 McDonald's AAs that he recruited (Romeo, Trayce) in 4 years...That's not bad...

I just think Miller thought he had to absolutely kill it in state to win the fans over,,,and so his focus was there...And he did get 3 of the most highly touted High Schoolers from in state during that time...

I explained what I thought Archie's issues were above...

 

Yeah, nobody is taking Trayce and Langford away from him. Those were great gets. The conversation was about elite national recruits. Miller went after a lot of highly ranked national players, but he could just never get any traction with them. He missed on almost all of them. That's what the conversation was really about. 

Miller did pretty well in-state, especially early on. With that said, I think even that gets overrated a bit. In terms of recruiting wins Langford, Trayce and even Lander (despite ending up a bust) were huge. The reality is that Anderson, Phinisee, Franklin (who I really liked), Leal and Galloway were all either outside or barely in the top 150 nationally. 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

My pushback on that would be that when I think of how well coaches recruit, it obviously comes down to who they land, but it also comes down to who they missed on. You might get a decent class but if you missed on your 1st, 2nd and 3rd options to get there then you're probably not as talented as you hoped to be. 

I'm not gonna go back and look at who he missed on... My point is, he did fairly well recruiting in his time at IU... He didn't have any of Woody's advantages as far as an NBA resume goes, and I don't think he knew how to manage the egos of big time recruits...

 

[go_iu_bb]

24 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

A lot of the recruiting services/gurus aren't either I guess...

Miller's first class was 

Race (His)

Al Durham (Crean's)

Justin Smith (Crean's)

Clifton Moore (Crean's)

The guy Miller got (Race) turned out to be pretty good...I don't know if I'd call Al or Justin "busts" but Clifton Moore fits that bill

His first class of his own was the 10th ranked class nationally, and 2nd in the Big 10...

Romeo

Hunter

Anderson

Phinisee

Forrester

Romeo may not have lived up to our lofty expectations, but he wasn't a bust...Hunter had the leg issues which I think really derailed his career...Phinisee didn't live up to expectations and I think the concussions had something to do with that...Forrester and Anderson, yeah, busts...

Trayce and Armaan can't be on that list...And that was actually his lowest rated class (56 nationally and 8th in the Big 10)

Lander, Geronimo, Leal, Galloway...were the 15th ranked class nationally and 2nd in the Big 10...Lander was a definite bust...I don't think the expectations for Leal were all that high, and Geronimo might not have become what we thought he would, but he also didn't develop any more under Woody than he did under Miller...

The only guy in his last class was Duncomb...Not gonna say anything to suffer the wrath of Nana  

I don't know...Like I said, I put it more into the development camp, and trying to coach more talented recruits like he did the classes he had at Dayton...

JMO...

 

Almost all of the Miller players who transferred out moved down in competition. That's a sign of bad player evaluation. Or maybe his coaching just made them worse. 

Of the Langford, Hunter, Anderson, Phinisee, and Forester class, the only one who wasn't a bust was Langford. You can make excuses for Hunter and Phinisee but neither performed to the level of expectations. Even after transferring, Hunter played better but not as good as expected and I would still consider a bust.

TJD and Franklin. Good class. Neither were busts.

Lander, Geronimo, Leal, and Galloway class: Lander was definitely a bust as you admit. Leal and Geronimo haven't improved which goes to poor evaluation. I don't know if I'd consider them busts as they didn't have high expectations but because of that I'm not convinced they should've been recruited in the first place. Especially to a team already lacking in talent.

Duncomb was also a bust.

That's a pretty poor showing for the players he did land. But I also look at players he missed. Two I can think of off the top of my head that Miller supposedly wanted badly were Matt Cross and Ethan Morton. Matt Cross hasn't done jack at the D1 level and has transferred multiple times. Ethan Morton has not impressed while at Purdue. I know there are other bad players he wanted and missed on but I'm not going to bother going to look. Every year I seem to see multiple players Miller missed on transferring and usually moving down.

Edited August 29, 2023 by go_iu_bb