MoyeCowbell Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You coach swimming right? And I'm sure you're good at it...But I'm also sure not every swimmer reaches his or her potential under your tutelage...Like I said, "Horse to water." You can only provide the environment, the tools, and the knowledge and guidance to help someone else succeed... I'll back Mike Woodson as a coach until the day he is no longer the basketball coach at Indiana... But I'll back him as a man til the day he dies...Just too much evidence that he's a good man with good intentions to ignore... Let me just preface by saying that I'm a huge fan of your passion for IU. I'm glad that you are a fan, and love the steadfast nature of your position in all of this. That said, I disagree with some of it. I would argue that most (rational) people agree that Mike Woodson is a good man with good intentions. I don't believe him to be a cheat, slimeball, [insert negative descriptor here], etc. type of person. I also don't think he should be placed on a floating block of ice and sent off into the Arctic... What's difficult for me is to back someone simply because of the title they have. Do I want him to succeed? Of course. However, his job isn't just to roll the ball out there on the court and let the guys who want it go get it. His role as a Head Coach of Indiana University is to A) field the best team possible while B) teaching, inspiring and motivating the players to C) be better as a collective unit than they are as individuals, so they can D) compete for the very best prize in college basketball on a consistent (yearly) basis. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 6 minutes ago, MrsStoller said: Agreed. I also think that that form of protest, not showing up to a game, is what is most visible to the Athletic Department and those in a position to make a change. That and $$$. I agree but most of the tickets had already been sold so they already have the money. I guess they would lose money from concessions and parking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 6 minutes ago, btownqb said: We already struggled rebounding. Kopp was going to play the 4 some last year, anyways, before XJ went down. But again, lack of depth screwed us. That would have also meant Kopp would have had to check some pretty damn good 4s in the B1G last year.. He and Race were hard to place honestly. If you were really going to upgrade that roster, making them both bench contributors was the way to go. I just think we have been missing athleticism at that 3 spot for years. Even Mgbako (who is a good player) isn't the type of guy I would want there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 8 minutes ago, BGleas said: Agree to a large extent. Tweeting at recruits, family members, coaches, etc, should be completely out of bounds and off limits. There's no reason to get personal with players, coaches, recruits, etc. Completely agree and I don't and never have supported that. My point is, IU as a fanbase is no worse than Duke, UNC, Kansas, Michigan, OSU, etc., etc. The difference is IU's program has been a joke and completely mismanaged for 30 years. The fans are the symptom. Fixing IU's broken administration and approach to building a basketball program is preventing the disease. I agree but like it or not that is the reputation we have outside of our fan base. Sometimes perception becomes reality. Also when you are losing all the other coaches will use this in recruiting. Besides UK fans you never see anything nationally about other fan bases being lunatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I agree but like it or not that is the reputation we have outside of our fan base. Sometimes perception becomes reality. Also when you are losing all the other coaches will use this in recruiting. Besides UK fans you never see anything nationally about other fan bases being lunatics. I'm not sure that's really the reputation, but even if that's accurate the reason you hear about all still ties back to the ineptitude of IU's administration. Fans wouldn't be so crazy if IU acted like a real, elite basketball program. The fans are the only thing keeping IU even remotely close to relevancy. Someone else said it, but without the fans IU is Minnesota. IU is Clemson. IU is Washington. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just now, BGleas said: I'm not sure that's really the reputation, but even if that's accurate the reason you hear about all still ties back to the ineptitude of IU's administration. Fans wouldn't be so crazy if IU acted like a real, elite basketball program. The fans are the only thing keeping IU even remotely close to relevancy. Someone else said it, but without the fans IU is Minnesota. IU is Clemson. IU is Washington. I just think we are to close to the situation and can't see the Forrest because of the trees. If course we don't see it as a problem because no one really wants to look in the mirror to see there are problems. Do I think the fans is the major reason we are at this point if course not. I also can see we are part of the problem as well. You say the fans are always here and support the team which I agree with. People outside sees how we've had 5 AD's, 6 coaches, 4 presidents and many different guys in administration since RMK left. They see that the fans are the only constant so they think we are part of the reason we are where we are at. They think the reason that we have had problems getting top coaches is because of the fans. Why would they leave their current job where they have job security to come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You coach swimming right? And I'm sure you're good at it...But I'm also sure not every swimmer reaches his or her potential under your tutelage...Like I said, "Horse to water." You can only provide the environment, the tools, and the knowledge and guidance to help someone else succeed... I'll back Mike Woodson as a coach until the day he is no longer the basketball coach at Indiana... But I'll back him as a man til the day he dies...Just too much evidence that he's a good man with good intentions to ignore... Swimming is an individual sport, so individual development is all that matters. Thus, you’re analogy is not apt. In team sports individual success doesn’t always correlate to team success on the court, field, ice, etc. In team sports individual success can also be dependent on the athlete being put in a place with in a system to succeed. We don’t have a ‘system’ in swimming. So, for me, an evaluation of an athlete’s development is way more black and white. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I agree but like it or not that is the reputation we have outside of our fan base. Sometimes perception becomes reality. Also when you are losing all the other coaches will use this in recruiting. Besides UK fans you never see anything nationally about other fan bases being lunatics. That is because the only other fan bases that come anywhere close in size to Indiana's when it comes to online presence are schools that generally do well. Only Duke has a bigger online presence. The next closest are UNC and Kansas. Other fanbases are too small to notice. We have over 7 times as many people on Twitter(X) as UConn and over 6 times more than Purdue. The problem is and was that Indiana markets itself as being one of those other 3 schools up with it but they don't actually operate like them. They want all the benefits associated with that kind of fan engagement but they really haven't done much to actually earn it in over 23 years. The fans have an emotional attachment to the program and the University sells that program to them based on that emotional connection. Then they rarely live up to what they promise. That creates pissed off customers. And you add people like Hoosier Hysterics who are basically supported by the University because of access that come out before every year and talk the program up like they are going to be awesome, knowing that quite a bit of that is just wish-casting, and you just help feed the negativity when it goes wrong. If Indiana really believes that what they are rolling out is what the program is going to be, they need to start matching that with their messaging. Stop pointing at banners and talking about how awesome and part of b-ball royalty we are and instead get out there and start mimicking what Iowa and Minnesota do to promote their basketball teams. When you keep promising a Ferrari and delivering a Honda Civic (which is an adequate car) it creates displeasure in the adequate car. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euroclydon Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Losing one recruit is not the end of IU baskerball. The kid could have helped but he wasn't going to turn them into title contenders by himself. The bigger problem is two straight years of missing on key targets with no legit backups to fill in the gaps. They were fortunate to land Ware and MM the way they did. The question is, what's happened in recruiting? If the money is there, and you've sent two guys to the NBA last season why are you struggling? What's IU lacking in the process? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BGleas Posted March 9 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I just think we are to close to the situation and can't see the Forrest because of the trees. If course we don't see it as a problem because no one really wants to look in the mirror to see there are problems. Do I think the fans is the major reason we are at this point if course not. I also can see we are part of the problem as well. You say the fans are always here and support the team which I agree with. People outside sees how we've had 5 AD's, 6 coaches, 4 presidents and many different guys in administration since RMK left. They see that the fans are the only constant so they think we are part of the reason we are where we are at. They think the reason that we have had problems getting top coaches is because of the fans. Why would they leave their current job where they have job security to come here. The bolded isn't because of the fans. The bolded is because IU's athletic department and hierarchical structure is extremely poorly run. Maybe the fans should just go away and then we can see what that does? Literally turn this into Minnesota basketball. Let's have a half-empty Assembly Hall all year. The fans weren't a problem when they packed Assembly Hall in 2008-09 to watch a team of baseball players and walk-ons. Think that happens at Clemson? Think a freshmen averaging 2ppg is going to lead in NIL apparel sales at Ole Miss? IU has some crazy, bad fans. No doubt, and no argument from me on that. But, so does Duke, UNC, Kansas, UK, Michigan, Louisville, Alabama, etc., etc. This is not even remotely unique to IU. The difference is that IU's athletic department has been a joke. Fix the admin, hire a real, accomplished college basketball coach, and the fans aren't a problem. I'd also argue that IU's fans are the biggest reason the fix can actually be really easy and simple. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, Euroclydon said: Losing one recruit is not the end of IU baskerball. The kid could have helped but he wasn't going to turn them into title contenders by himself. The bigger problem is two straight years of missing on key targets with no legit backups to fill in the gaps. They were fortunate to land Ware and MM the way they did. The question is, what's happened in recruiting? If the money is there, and you've sent two guys to the NBA last season why are you struggling? What's IU lacking in the process? Our head coach doesn't like recruiting (apparently) and therefore is not as engaged in that process as he needs to be. He doesn't do well in long term recruiting. I think that is because he doesn't enjoy doing that and has other priorities and believes he can cobble together a team like they do in the pros through the college equivalent of free agency. I really think it is that simple. Recruiting high school kids requires more effort and ass-kissing than Woodson wants to do or believes he should have to do so he avoids it. He is used to pro relationships where you don't have to coddle dudes. That isn't this game. That is my conjecture based on observation, things Woodson has said, and hearsay. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 (edited) 11 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Our head coach doesn't like recruiting (apparently) and therefore is not as engaged in that process as he needs to be. He doesn't do well in long term recruiting. I think that is because he doesn't enjoy doing that and has other priorities and believes he can cobble together a team like they do in the pros through the college equivalent of free agency. I really think it is that simple. Recruiting high school kids requires more effort and ass-kissing than Woodson wants to do or believes he should have to do so he avoids it. He is used to pro relationships where you don't have to coddle dudes. That isn't this game. That is my conjecture based on observation, things Woodson has said, and hearsay. I also want to add, there is nothing wrong with what Woodson likes as long as you realize that about yourself and act accordingly. I would have all the respect in the world for Woodson if he basically came out and said, "You know what, I love Indiana University and I love coaching. However, I don't love all the other aspects that a college coach has to do outside those two things to be successful the way the game has gone these days. Therefore I am going to retire early so that someone who does love those things can build on what we have done here to set the groundwork for NIL and the modern approach. I will be available to help that person continue to grow this place that I love so much." If Woodson came out and said something like that at Senior night, much respect and standing ovation from the crowd and he still gets to be Woodson the hero. If he holds on for whatever reason and doesn't change up the things he isn't doing for whatever reason he isn't doing them though, he is going to tarnish his legacy. Brad Stevens knew he didn't like the college life. Jay Wright has said the new game isn't for him. Other coaches have expressed similar thoughts as of late. And I get it, some of this really sucks from my POV as well. It is the reality though. So if Woodson isn't 100% bought in to what it takes, he needs to be self aware enough to say he isn't the guy. And that reasoning would have nothing to do with his coaching ability, it is all about preference. That off ramp is available, I would love to see him take it. Edited March 9 by IUCrazy2 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 11 minutes ago, BGleas said: The bolded isn't because of the fans. The bolded is because IU's athletic department and hierarchical structure is extremely poorly run. Maybe the fans should just go away and then we can see what that does? Literally turn this into Minnesota basketball. Let's have a half-empty Assembly Hall all year. The fans weren't a problem when they packed Assembly Hall in 2008-09 to watch a team of baseball players and walk-ons. Think that happens at Clemson? Think a freshmen averaging 2ppg is going to lead in NIL apparel sales at Ole Miss? IU has some crazy, bad fans. No doubt, and no argument from me on that. But, so does Duke, UNC, Kansas, UK, Michigan, Louisville, Alabama, etc., etc. This is not even remotely unique to IU. The difference is that IU's athletic department has been a joke. Fix the admin, hire a real, accomplished college basketball coach, and the fans aren't a problem. I'd also argue that IU's fans are the biggest reason the fix can actually be really easy and simple. I agree but I watch national podcasts and this is our reputation like it or not. I don't always agree with their takes but it is how they see us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just now, IU Scott said: I agree but I watch national podcasts and this is our reputation like it or not. I don't always agree with their takes but it is how they see us. Agree to disagree. Completely fine. If that is the reputation, then shame on IU and the IU media for letting that be the narrative as opposed to all of the numerous things (and it's a long list) that make the IU fan base one of the best in the country. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierinbham Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 8 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: I also want to add, there is nothing wrong with what Woodson likes as long as you realize that about yourself and act accordingly. I would have all the respect in the world for Woodson if he basically came out and said, "You know what, I love Indiana University and I love coaching. However, I don't love all the other aspects that a college coach has to do outside those two things to be successful the way the game has gone these days. Therefore I am going to retire early so that someone who does love those things can build on what we have done here to set the groundwork for NIL and the modern approach. I will be available to help that person continue to grow this place that I love so much." If Woodson came out and said something like that at Senior night, much respect and standing ovation from the crowd and he still gets to be Woodson the hero. If he holds on for whatever reason and doesn't change up the things he isn't doing for whatever reason he isn't doing them though, he is going to tarnish his legacy. Brad Stevens knew he didn't like the college life. Jay Wright has said the new game isn't for him. Other coaches have expressed similar thoughts as of late. And I get it, some of this really sucks from my POV as well. It is the reality though. So if Woodson isn't 100% bought in to what it takes, he needs to be self aware enough to say he isn't the guy. And that reasoning would have nothing to do with his coaching ability, it is all about preference. That off ramp is available, I would love to see him take it. Absolutely beautiful take on the situation. Nothing personal. No conjecture. No rationalizing or making excuses. I wish he would follow your plan for everyone's sake. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 30 minutes ago, Euroclydon said: The question is, what's happened in recruiting? If the money is there, and you've sent two guys to the NBA last season why are you struggling? What's IU lacking in the process? For one thing, it would help remembering names of recruits on visits. How this even happens is beyond comprehension. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Turtle Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: For one thing, it would help remembering names of recruits on visits. How this even happens is beyond comprehension. And this is the flagship program. Only at Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Obie Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippopotamo Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 46 minutes ago, BGleas said: The bolded isn't because of the fans. The bolded is because IU's athletic department and hierarchical structure is extremely poorly run. Maybe the fans should just go away and then we can see what that does? Literally turn this into Minnesota basketball. Let's have a half-empty Assembly Hall all year. The fans weren't a problem when they packed Assembly Hall in 2008-09 to watch a team of baseball players and walk-ons. Think that happens at Clemson? Think a freshmen averaging 2ppg is going to lead in NIL apparel sales at Ole Miss? IU has some crazy, bad fans. No doubt, and no argument from me on that. But, so does Duke, UNC, Kansas, UK, Michigan, Louisville, Alabama, etc., etc. This is not even remotely unique to IU. The difference is that IU's athletic department has been a joke. Fix the admin, hire a real, accomplished college basketball coach, and the fans aren't a problem. I'd also argue that IU's fans are the biggest reason the fix can actually be really easy and simple. I totally agree. I absolutely hate the argument that the fans are the problem or that fans are asking for too much out of the program. How about I stop traveling to NYC to watch us lose by 20 to UConn, stop driving to Kansas to watch us lose by 20, stop traveling to Bloomington and going to games with my old buddies? I’m done watching games until the IU administration gets their head out of their asses and takes this program seriously. I’m not buying tickets, I’m not buying gear, I’m still never going to donate any money to the school (my out of state tuition was plenty). Frankly I’m fed up in a way I’ve never been before. I’m just done spending this much time and energy on something that has become a total joke. IU basketball has been something I tried to schedule my life around, but I haven’t watched the last month or so and I’m better off for it. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victobmyboy Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 16 hours ago, IU_Realist said: Dude JHS was a first rounder before the season started. Stop. TJD worked with NBA trainers a ton. Stop. Ware is soft. Mgbako will transfer. Just wait. He was a projected future first rounder not a one and done. Important part of the argument. Ware was soft he’s no longer soft. TJD developed passing and ball handling in 1 year. TJD no doubt worked his ass off. How much of all this is Woody? Who knows. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: I agree but like it or not that is the reputation we have outside of our fan base. Sometimes perception becomes reality. Also when you are losing all the other coaches will use this in recruiting. Besides UK fans you never see anything nationally about other fan bases being lunatics. Fan means fanatic Every fan base has idiots Many Purdue fans want MP fired If I were you guys I’d want a change What do you lose by firing CMW? recruits 😐 momentum 🚽 Once the program loses momentum it’s hard to get it back 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 16 minutes ago, Purdue7 said: Fan means fanatic Every fan base has idiots Many Purdue fans want MP fired If I were you guys I’d want a change What do you lose by firing CMW? recruits 😐 momentum 🚽 Once the program loses momentum it’s hard to get it back That last sentence. That last sentence. That last sentence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 For the fans who have season tickets on here and are going to give up on team next year and not go to games. please message me. Will gladly take those off your hands next fall. Thanks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 2 hours ago, BGleas said: Agree to disagree. Completely fine. If that is the reputation, then shame on IU and the IU media for letting that be the narrative as opposed to all of the numerous things (and it's a long list) that make the IU fan base one of the best in the country. I disagree as well. I have many contacts in business and family across the country and visit places with my IU gear on. No one has ever said anything about IU fans. If anything they feel sad for us based off our history. Most of the fans aren’t on the internet or message boards. It’s a few bad eggs and most people have no idea they exist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 37 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: For the fans who have season tickets on here and are going to give up on team next year and not go to games. please message me. Will gladly take those off your hands next fall. Thanks! Man the Seat Geek prices tanked for the last 4-5 games. I might have to sell them to you just to break even 😂. Note I would go to more games this year but am currently immune compromised and don’t feel like wearing a mask for the entire game sometimes 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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