EvilleHoosier Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 7 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: I don't mean to defend him too much, but what was he supposed to do with this team? Have Cupps score 20 a night? X? There just weren't options. Certainly the roster is his fault, but he at least tried to get guys like Love and Knecht. He left a scholarship open and only targeted highly ranked guys. There were plenty of guys a level below he could've added to have more guard depth, but he put too much focus on top tier talent much like he has done for the 2024 high school recruits. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 14 minutes ago, BGleas said: But it's not about "shots" being there. It's a terrible offense and fit for a shooter. It's a bad offense. I'm with you on the timeline and that McNeely was probably waiting for Woodson to be fired, but this happened because Mike Woodson hasn't done his job, not because Bill Self pulled a fast one on an impressionable kid/family. My only point is that Liam and his family didn't make this decision in the last 24 hours. Anyone suggesting this wasn't in play for a myriad of reasons doesn't get the complexities of recruiting. I can see $ Bill playing this one from a mile away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 46 minutes ago, dgambill said: Can’t blame the kid for not wanting to play on a team with no support. Woody has failed to add any help in the recruiting class and brought in none in the portal…saw what Woody put on the floor and Woodt double down on an inside focused offense. Kid said “F” it I’m not untrusting my future to a coach that thinks this is winning basketball. I can’t carry that team by myself. I agree with this, but McNeeley really screwed us regardless of the reasoning. Not necessarily "blaming" him, but the timing couldn't be worse. More of an overall tangent: I also think our fans are a bit delusional. Knight made IU great not the other way around. When his coaching style became passé the program slowly lost it's prestige. The last really good coach we had was Sampson. Since then we've hired marginal to mediocre, to whatever happened to Archie coaches. The recruiting strategy has been especially poor as well when compared to a school like PU (the strategy IU should have been doing for the past 20 years). And it seems like quality of coaching candidates gets worse every year. Overall point, the expectations are a bit out of whack with where the program is today. Woody isn't and never was the long term answer. The hope was he could get the program in a good position to hand it off. This season for a number of reasons, has not gone well. But in reality it's about 2-3 wins away from accomplishing what Woody only needed to do, keep it in a net positive position. He made a lot of mistakes this year. But Pearl or whomever might make some mistakes too. We can't light the torches every time a season starts to go sideways regardless of the coach or players. That being said, it's nearly impossible to bring him back if everyone leaves. The next few weeks will be wild. Edited March 8 by OGIUAndy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BGleas Posted March 8 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 8 Just now, Seeking6 said: My only point is that Liam and his family didn't make this decision in the last 24 hours. Anyone suggesting this wasn't in play for a myriad of reasons doesn't get the complexities of recruiting. I can see $ Bill playing this one from a mile away. Oh yeah, agree on the point the decision wasn't made in the last 24 hours. Completely agree. I think it was more Sleepy Mike fumbling the bag though, as opposed to anything $ Bill did. Self just took advantage of another coach completely dropping the ball. 13 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 6 minutes ago, EvilleHoosier said: He left a scholarship open and only targeted highly ranked guys. There were plenty of guys a level below he could've added to have more guard depth, but he put too much focus on top tier talent much like he has done for the 2024 high school recruits. As I said the roster is his fault, but if you are coach of this team with these players going into the year, what are you supposed to do? My only real point is, I don't know that we have a real idea of how Woody would like to run his offense, we simply know that his teams (partially, maybe largely his own fault) have had a lot of offensive talent in the post and very little elsewhere. He then did what he had to do. He could have played MM at the 4, but then who's the 3? Banks? Gunn? We just never had the talent. Ware and Reneau are far and away our best two offensive players. It's hard not to play them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Turtle Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Dysfunctional university. Dysfunctional Athletic department. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Just now, BGleas said: Oh yeah, agree on the point the decision wasn't made in the last 24 hours. Completely agree. I think it was more Sleepy Mike fumbling the bag though, as opposed to anything $ Bill did. Self just took advantage of another coach completely dropping the ball. Sleepy Mike and the entire staff, no? If the rumors are true, then everyone on the staff is to blame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 17 minutes ago, dgambill said: You act like Woody played no part in all this…come on!! This is 2024…recruiting never ends…whether it’s the portal with your guy…other teams guy…or your HS recruits you never stop recruiting. Do you think this kid wanted to come to a team with one of the poorest offenses in D1 and think it will be good that he has no support to help him look better?? Mgbako has to work incredibly hard for his shots and we do little to get him easy looks. Kid can’t help but see Woody landed no other 24 recruits and brought in no real support in the portal…you would trust him with your basketball future? Would you commit to IU when you can have your pick to play for any program in the country with your NBA aspirations on the line? I wouldn’t and I’ve loved IU since I could walk. My original point and subsequent points had to do with the timeline of this announcement. Two very, very different silos. If you want to talk player development, getting kids to the pros,etc.....that's one thing. I've been talking about how this was announced and when. PS...if talking about guard development. Kevin McCullar is 22 and the lead point guard for Kansas when healthy. Our own JHS was drafted by the Lakers who won't be able to get a drink legally until this Summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Turtle Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) The university thought announcing Woodson was coming back would reassure people 🤣 Edited March 8 by Sea Turtle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BGleas said: Oh yeah, agree on the point the decision wasn't made in the last 24 hours. Completely agree. I think it was more Sleepy Mike fumbling the bag though, as opposed to anything $ Bill did. Self just took advantage of another coach completely dropping the ball. Some reports are Mcneeley’s camp was waiting for the Woodson announcement because if he was fired it would’ve been an easier excuse to decommit…but since Woodson was retained, why wait any longer? Which is why he made the announcement. This has everything to do with our style of play. In what world does a kid with his talent/skillset want to play for this system? You would think something like this would wake sleepy Woodson up, but it won’t. He will keep doing the same thing Edited March 8 by Hoosier987 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 12 minutes ago, EvilleHoosier said: He left a scholarship open and only targeted highly ranked guys. There were plenty of guys a level below he could've added to have more guard depth, but he put too much focus on top tier talent much like he has done for the 2024 high school recruits. Yeah, as much as anything this is the biggest problem this year. No reason not to bring in a mid major guard(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Just now, Hoosier987 said: Some reports are Mcneeley’s camp was waiting for the Woodson announcement because if he was fired it would’ve been an easier excuse to decommit…but since Woodson was retained, why wait any longer? Which is why he made the announcement. This has everything to do with our style of play. In what world does a kid with his talent/skillset want to play for this system? Seems like that is what happened. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 4 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: My only point is that Liam and his family didn't make this decision in the last 24 hours. Anyone suggesting this wasn't in play for a myriad of reasons doesn't get the complexities of recruiting. I can see $ Bill playing this one from a mile away. It’s ultimately conjecture unless we hear exactly why later, but it’s been said that Woodson didn’t prioritize McNeeley after he signed. - He’s your only recruit! There is nobody else to split time with. - Make your recruits believe they will be utilized! They are players who want to play. Why prematurely jeopardize that?? - Liam listened to Self (or whoever gets him) simply because he’s not getting the adequate attention from CMW. - And if that inattentiveness was months-long, shame on CMW. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Just now, MoyeCowbell said: It’s ultimately conjecture unless we hear exactly why later, but it’s been said that Woodson didn’t prioritize McNeeley after he signed. - He’s your only recruit! There is nobody else to split time with. - Make your recruits believe they will be utilized! They are players who want to play. Why prematurely jeopardize that?? - Liam listened to Self (or whoever gets him) simply because he’s not getting the adequate attention from CMW. - And if that inattentiveness was months-long, shame on CMW. To your last point. Nothing about Sleepy Woodson screams attentiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 4 minutes ago, BGleas said: Seems like that is what happened. But he wasn't going to get fired during the season. It just wasn't going to happen to an IU legend. Another reason why it's never a great idea to hire a former legend with no college/recruiting experience. If and when it goes bad, it's going to be harder to just "fire" him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 25 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Look, it's senseless to talk about the 'why' at this point. It's happened. For all we know, Kansas promised to change the name of Allen Fieldhouse to Liam's Lair. And, honestly, if someone tweeted that, there would be people that believed it. Quit hanging on every word some dude with a twitter account, blog, or super-secret friend of a booster says. Put yourself in this kid, or any kid's shoes. If you, as Liam, wanted to fill a lifetime goal of playing in the NBA, and your game was perimeter oriented, would you choose to play for IU after what you watched over the course of 30 games so far this season. I wouldn't. I wouldn't want my son to do it. There are so many other places for a perimeter player to go that will better prepare him for that dream. And, can we use this opportunity to put the NIL myth to bed? I don't know for certain, but I'm fairly comfortable in my belief that Kansas did not lure him away from IU with the promise of more NIL than what IU offered, They were able to lure him away based on what I said earlier in the post. And, if you think that money is going to sway top talent in the portal this offseason (and we may need about 8 new bodies), then why would you think those players would take the money route when Dalton Knecht, Caleb Love, and Liam Mcneeley didn't? We're going to die on the belief that we can buy ourselves a successful team. I lost all hope today. Before this we could see a really solid core returning. Rumors of Simon throwing millions around. But after this. Woodson needs to retire. If half the things Rabby dropped are true If Woodson hasn't talked to Liam all season. if he won't retire then fire him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 10 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said: Sleepy Mike and the entire staff, no? If the rumors are true, then everyone on the staff is to blame. They were al at Woodson’s house smoking cigars and drinking wine with QB. That’s more important than recruit management FYI. Also a good realization that an employee wil slack as much as their leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Turtle Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) You can't bring Woodson back after this. He offered 32 players and got ZERO commits. 😳 He's losing at least 6 players as soon as the season ends. You just can't do it. I don't care how it looks. No serious program/franchise/business would do so. You have to move on and YOU HAVE TO LET DOLSON DO HIS JOB. Edited March 8 by Sea Turtle 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyeCowbell Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, iuthruandthru said: They were al at Woodson’s house smoking cigars and drinking wine with QB. That’s more important than recruit management FYI. Also a good realization that an employee wil slack as much as their leader. Liam was probably like, “Damn, I’ve got a better work ethic than this guy, AND I’M A TEENAGER!” 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 29 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said: I agree with this, but McNeeley really screwed us regardless of the reasoning. Not necessarily "blaming" him, but the timing couldn't be worse. More of an overall tangent: I also think our fans are a bit delusional. Knight made IU great not the other way around. When his coaching style became passé the program slowly lost it's prestige. The last really good coach we had was Sampson. Since then we've hired marginal to mediocre, to whatever happened to Archie coaches. The recruiting strategy has been especially poor as well when compared to a school like PU (the strategy IU should have been doing for the past 20 years). And it seems like quality of coaching candidates gets worse every year. Overall point, the expectations are a bit out of whack with where the program is today. Woody isn't and never was the long term answer. The hope was he could get the program in a good position to hand it off. This season for a number of reasons, has not gone well. But in reality it's about 2-3 wins away from accomplishing what Woody only needed to do, keep it in a net positive position. He made a lot of mistakes this year. But Pearl or whomever might make some mistakes too. We can't light the torches every time a season starts to go sideways regardless of the coach or players. That being said, it's nearly impossible to bring him back if everyone leaves. The next few weeks will be wild. He will be back he won't be let go hope that relives your fears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 14 minutes ago, Sea Turtle said: You can't bring Woodson back after this. He offered 32 players and got ZERO commits. 😳 He's losing at least 6 players as soon as the season ends. You just can't do it. I don't care how it looks. No serious program/franchise/business would do so. You have to move on and YOU HAVE TO LET DOLSON DO HIS JOB. He will be back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Turtle Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 5 minutes ago, Mike said: He will be back. I know. It's Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 “You don’t decommit from Mike Woodson, Mike Woodson decommits from YOU.” -Mike Woodson (probably) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, BGleas said: Oh yeah, agree on the point the decision wasn't made in the last 24 hours. Completely agree. I think it was more Sleepy Mike fumbling the bag though, as opposed to anything $ Bill did. Self just took advantage of another coach completely dropping the ball. Edited March 8 by BobSaccamanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Take our NIL money and try and pull a "Self" on Rutgers' recruiting class? 🤣 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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