IUFLA Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, IU_Realist said: different years. Not just in one. Woodson wants ready made players because he can’t develop worth a damn. Hence my first sentence... Yeah, he didn't develop TJD, or JHS, or Kel'el Ware, or Mackenzie Mgbako... Y'all need to stick with the truth 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I wouldn't say he hasn't developed any players. I would say how he has worked with Ware has been good. Also TJD got more rounded once Woodson got here. I know Reamer and agree with his comments today. He got a ready made center that passed well and what not and could only make the tourney and an early exit. TJD also worked a helluva a lot without Woodson and company with NBA trainers during the offseasons. The best games IU played with TJD was where he was moving around, pick and rolls and him passing. He doesn’t have that and most likely will never get that because most good programs that have that will keep it. His problem is there is way too much standing around in our offense and he always goes back to the two bigs. He’s brain dead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Hence my first sentence... Yeah, he didn't develop TJD, or JHS, or Kel'el Ware, or Mackenzie Mgbako... Y'all need to stick with the truth Dude JHS was a first rounder before the season started. Stop. TJD worked with NBA trainers a ton. Stop. Ware is soft. Mgbako will transfer. Just wait. 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 3 minutes ago, IU_Realist said: Dude JHS was a first rounder before the season started. Stop. TJD worked with NBA trainers a ton. Stop. Ware is soft. Mgbako will transfer. Just wait. I know you're not in love with the truth, but even you can't dispute straight from the horses mouth... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 (edited) 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I know you're not in love with the truth, but even you can't dispute straight from the horses mouth... Have you ever seen a former player bash their coach? Players still love Crean, Sampson, Davis, etc. Doesn’t mean the coach doesn’t know his arse from a hole in the ground. We are all here complaining about what my team the Knicks were complaining about when he coached here. Dude is an idiot. He has no place being a HC. Edited March 9 by IU_Realist 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just now, IU_Realist said: Have you ever seen a former player bash their coach? Players still love Crean, Sampson, Davis, etc. Doesn’t mean the coach doesn’t know his arse from a hole in the ground. We are all here complaining about what my team the Knicks were complaining about when he coached here. Dude is an idiot. He has no place being a HC. Most want Woodson gone but why can't people give him credit when it is warranted. I have criticized his coaching a lot because it is warranted but I can give him some credit as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Most want Woodson gone but why can't people give him credit when it is warranted. I have criticized his coaching a lot because it is warranted but I can give him some credit as well. He is an OK coach. However his stats track bad. His offense has been mediocre to bad two out of 3 years. His defense has gotten worse every year. Should have probably thanked Miller or Fife for that. He has always been a bad decision and if what is coming out as true, he is a bigger jerk in person. Entitled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, IU_Realist said: He is an OK coach. However his stats track bad. His offense has been mediocre to bad two out of 3 years. His defense has gotten worse every year. Should have probably thanked Miller or Fife for that. He has always been a bad decision and if what is coming out as true, he is a bigger jerk in person. Entitled. Where did I say he was a good coach and I want him gone. It just seems like people think if you give him credit that you are backing him as the coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just now, IU Scott said: Where did I say he was a good coach and I want him gone. It just seems like people think if you give him credit that you are backing him as the coach. I really struggle at where the credit is due? He was given the job from a friend and the dam has broken and it turns out he really sucks at his job. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 6 minutes ago, IU_Realist said: I really struggle at where the credit is due? He was given the job from a friend and the dam has broken and it turns out he really sucks at his job. I see development this year from Ware and MM. I see growth from Reneau from last year. The problem is not recruiting or developing guards and wings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 35 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Hence my first sentence... Yeah, he didn't develop TJD, or JHS, or Kel'el Ware, or Mackenzie Mgbako... Y'all need to stick with the truth Not to mention bias aside because I know his Mama.....but Trey has seemed to improve just a tad. People can debate all sides of things but not giving our staff any credit in the development of players is as idiotic as they say our staff is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 8 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said: all joking aside, it has bothered me since day 1 that fans call him Woody. yes, i am old school, but he should be Coach Woodson if we respect him. we don't know him personally. i mean Woody is a cool nickname that his buddies call him, but I just think about someone calling Coach Knight "Monty" or "Ace" or something like that. just wouldn't be done. Do you know how long it takes to type out Coach Woodson…it’s a world of 28 characters or less. That’s the length of an avg tweet…the world has changed. Twitter, forums, etc people don’t even call President Trump and Biden by their full title. Sure in person but on a message board..I just think that is outdated and no one is intending to be insulting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 20 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I see development this year from Ware and MM. I see growth from Reneau from last year. The problem is not recruiting or developing guards and wings. seriously though, don't most guys improve some every year under any coach? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 6 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said: I am not sure we are disagreeing...? My intended point was HS recruiting is not the be all end all any longer. I used a crude reference of 50/50 of portal / HS, and sure maybe it's 30/70, but the broader point was that we all need to change our thinking. and I'm a Woodson out guy, for the record, just saying I think some (not all) are applying a framework of past roster building to current realities, when it just doesn't fit You can’t bring in 30% portal guys and 18% new freshman every year and expect to have any continuity in your program and build any type of culture. That’s 50% of your roster new and also 50% with the portal guys leaving and the senior class leaving every year too. Churning half your program imo doesn’t lead to long term success. The portal best case is 1 maybe 2 players tops. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 14 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: seriously though, don't most guys improve some every year under any coach? So with that thinking no coach should ever get credit for kids development. They just get criticized if they don't develop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just now, IU Scott said: So with that thinking no coach should ever get credit for kids development. They just get criticized if they don't develop that's right Scott. i believe no coach should get any credit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: seriously though, don't most guys improve some every year under any coach? Not all…X hasn’t for example..we all know others. However almost every great player the drive came from within. Give these kids like Trayce and JHS and Trey the tools and they will work their @ss off to get better. I think it’s a bit egotistical if I say my employees success is because of my leadership. I might created the culture and gave them the tools but most people fail and succeed on their own imo. Maybe people disagree with me…but a coach truely developing someone I think is pretty rare. It would be like taking a raw talent like Geronimo and turning them into an all big ten player. Even then we can’t say what percentage was a result of the coaches working with him and how much was the extra work the kid did on his own. I don’t think Woodson is bad at player development but I also don’t think he has put these kids in the best situation to succeed. Whether that is putting talent around them in the right places (roster construction) or in the emphasis of his offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 11 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: that's right Scott. i believe no coach should get any credit. Or just Woodson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 9 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Or just Woodson sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 59 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said: seriously though, don't most guys improve some every year under any coach? Khristian Lander says hi. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 MP? Developed Edey from 400+ best recruit to two time National Player of the year? Developed Braden from App State level to All Big Ten in 18 months? Lost to a bunch of double digit seeds! I give the players most of the credit I give MP credit for using them correctly He has owned the NCAA misery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 11 hours ago, IU_Realist said: Dude JHS was a first rounder before the season started. Stop. TJD worked with NBA trainers a ton. Stop. Ware is soft. Mgbako will transfer. Just wait. i've tried to tell them this so many times. don't waste your time and energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Bawls Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 12 hours ago, IU_Realist said: Have you ever seen a former player bash their coach? Players still love Crean, Sampson, Davis, etc. Doesn’t mean the coach doesn’t know his arse from a hole in the ground. We are all here complaining about what my team the Knicks were complaining about when he coached here. Dude is an idiot. He has no place being a HC. Neil Reed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 11 hours ago, dgambill said: I think it’s a bit egotistical if I say my employees success is because of my leadership. I might created the culture and gave them the tools but most people fail and succeed on their own imo. Maybe people disagree with me…but a coach truely developing someone I think is pretty rare. The second sentence is exactly correct...It's the old "you can lead a horse to water" thing... But you must insure they have the tools and the knowledge of their strengths and weaknesses and help them galvanize the former, and minimize the latter...That's leadership 101... And in the video I posted, that's exactly what Trayce said Coach Woodson did for him...As Coach Knight said, "in basketball the importance of the mental to the physical is about four to one." A good leader helps much more with the mental... No one is saying Woody has to stand out there and watch Trayce hoist 500 jump shots... But facts are inconvenient things around here... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: The second sentence is exactly correct...It's the old "you can lead a horse to water" thing... But you must insure they have the tools and the knowledge of their strengths and weaknesses and help them galvanize the former, and minimize the latter...That's leadership 101... And in the video I posted, that's exactly what Trayce said Coach Woodson did for him...As Coach Knight said, "in basketball the importance of the mental to the physical is about four to one." A good leader helps much more with the mental... No one is saying Woody has to stand out there and watch Trayce hoist 500 jump shots... But facts are inconvenient things around here... I am sure he did help him out with some stuff. Woodson has been around the NBA so he has some knowledge of tweaking this or that for a player. That being said, the guys he really "improved" were all thought to be pretty darn good to begin with. JHS came in expected to be one and done. His trajectory was nowhere close to that until a key injury forced the issue on where/how he was used. TJD I think he helped round him out. Ware got some help with his motor but his skill set was always there. I think there has been some improvement on his motor. That is especially true of late, but he is gearing up for the NBA so he has that extra incentive. All that being said. The philosophical approach Woodson has to the on court product doesn't match modern basketball. He sucks at roster construction. He is bullheaded to a fault. He is lazy (too much smoke around that fire, so it is above rumor status at this point). At the end of the day, damn him with faint praise, I am fine with that. The totality of the situation is still that he overall sucks and needs fired. I am fine with people piling on a little hyperbole if that is what it takes to get the decision makers to hasten his departure. Woodson belongs on a golf course smoking a cigar. He likes having the title of IU coach but he doesn't like the job. He should be forced into retirement or fired in time to announce it on the Selection Sunday show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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