The “What are we selling to recruits” thread…

[Drroogh]

Alabama! Always looking for an edge, even in baseball?

[Initial79]

Found this interesting. No… based on recent comments, I promise, I am not trying to win the argument. I truly want some of the hard lined thinking on this subject to realize this is the thing. It will help when we lose guys and wonder why.  Our facilities, athlete perks and NiL are not quite in line with some of these schools.

For some recruits it won’t matter. For some, maybe it just leaves them with a different impression and sways them. 

Do I think this is the main reason for Hunter going to Kansas, hell no. But, he did mention it as part of his interview with Kyle Tucker. He said Kansas blew away UK. Then, lot like many of our fans, the Twitter UK crowd went nuts. “I find it hard to believe we don’t have one of the best in the country” 

if you take the time to read all the layers of this tweet he is giving many examples. Where do we think UK facilities rank compared to IU? If they are not even top 50 (Seth Greenberg comment) then are we? 

Massive facilities upgrades and crazy NIL is for sure changing the landscape with some also ran schools in prior years. The biggest way you overcome is developing for NBA. This year helped a lot for us there. 

 

[MoyeCowbell]

22 hours ago, Initial79 said:

Found this interesting. No… based on recent comments, I promise, I am not trying to win the argument. I truly want some of the hard lined thinking on this subject to realize this is the thing. It will help when we lose guys and wonder why.  Our facilities, athlete perks and NiL are not quite in line with some of these schools.

For some recruits it won’t matter. For some, maybe it just leaves them with a different impression and sways them. 

Do I think this is the main reason for Hunter going to Kansas, hell no. But, he did mention it as part of his interview with Kyle Tucker. He said Kansas blew away UK. Then, lot like many of our fans, the Twitter UK crowd went nuts. “I find it hard to believe we don’t have one of the best in the country” 

if you take the time to read all the layers of this tweet he is giving many examples. Where do we think UK facilities rank compared to IU? If they are not even top 50 (Seth Greenberg comment) then are we? 

Massive facilities upgrades and crazy NIL is for sure changing the landscape with some also ran schools in prior years. The biggest way you overcome is developing for NBA. This year helped a lot for us there. 

 

While I don't disagree that there will always be players (and fans) who want the best, most state-of-the-art stuff, I think there will be a saturation point. As you've said, when previous "also rans" are able to build incredible facilities, the whole market becomes saturated. And then it becomes more difficult to differentiate all of those bells and whistles.

There's only so much supple leather you can put on a player's lounge recliner; how many hot and cold tubs are too much?; is 90,000 sq ft of designated "basketball" space necessary, or must it be 90,001?

And so everything will revert, and it will come back to the basics. The core reason all of this exists: the game of basketball. Ultimately, will the player learn, grow and have success under the guidance of the coach and staff? Who knows the game and are they capable/elite at communicating that in an effective way that delivers results? Everything else is superfluous and simply window dressing.

[Initial79]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:11 PM, MoyeCowbell said:

While I don't disagree that there will always be players (and fans) who want the best, most state-of-the-art stuff, I think there will be a saturation point. As you've said, when previous "also rans" are able to build incredible facilities, the whole market becomes saturated. And then it becomes more difficult to differentiate all of those bells and whistles.

There's only so much supple leather you can put on a player's lounge recliner; how many hot and cold tubs are too much?; is 90,000 sq ft of designated "basketball" space necessary, or must it be 90,001?

And so everything will revert, and it will come back to the basics. The core reason all of this exists: the game of basketball. Ultimately, will the player learn, grow and have success under the guidance of the coach and staff? Who knows the game and are they capable/elite at communicating that in an effective way that delivers results? Everything else is superfluous and simply window dressing.

I think we agree on some of this but no, I strongly feel they will need to address this. I don’t think it eventually becomes “they are all good.” You can’t have those schools far outclassing IU. You need to be equal to them and then you sell why IU is different. 

it is sales 101, eliminate the reasons for them to say no. Maintain what makes you unique. It is like selling high end luxury goods, exotic cars etc. you have to maintain the unique brand imagine that makes you distinct. There is actually a great book on this called “The collapse of distinction” - brands and companies can’t allow themselves to fall into sameness. 

This is how you compete for the top talent moving forward consistently. All areas that matter you want to be considered the best at. Those that feel “how much is enough” We have too many advantages to let this even be a conversation. 

[Drroogh]

1 hour ago, Initial79 said:

I think we agree on some of this but no, I strongly feel they will need to address this. I don’t think it eventually becomes “they are all good.” You can’t have those schools far outclassing IU. You need to be equal to them and then you sell why IU is different. 

it is sales 101, eliminate the reasons for them to say no. Maintain what makes you unique. It is like selling high end luxury goods, exotic cars etc. you have to maintain the unique brand imagine that makes you distinct. There is actually a great book on this called “The collapse of distinction” - brands and companies can’t allow themselves to fall into sameness. 

This is how you compete for the top talent moving forward consistently. All areas that matter you want to be considered the best at. Those that feel “how much is enough” We have too many advantages to let this even be a conversation. 

The founder of WeatherTech has a saying ‘you can sell to the classes and eat with the masses, or you can sell to the masses and eat with the classes’  

 

[Initial79]

Going to try and go at this one more time. Not to be right. Don’t care. I am trying to help those fans that believe we “match up” - we don’t. Does that mean we can’t win recruits, he’ll no. But our staff fights a very up hill battle and it is not just Kansas. Pick an SEC school, etc 

I don’t believe this affects this recruitment much but I would sure like it to stop being an issue. Sounds like the athletic department finally realized this. 
 

Watch this at about 8 min in 

 

[Drroogh]

I understand and believe what you’re saying, but I have to wonder just how much whipped cream can you put on a milk shake! I think Indiana fans and the state in general let players KNOW they are rock stars and they don’t need individual intro’s. Also I feel that in order to compete on the floor you don’t want pampered pets you want trained attack dogs! Are the players that want fluff and hold their hands out for more NIL the ones you want? 

[IU Scott]

8 hours ago, Initial79 said:

Going to try and go at this one more time. Not to be right. Don’t care. I am trying to help those fans that believe we “match up” - we don’t. Does that mean we can’t win recruits, he’ll no. But our staff fights a very up hill battle and it is not just Kansas. Pick an SEC school, etc 

I don’t believe this affects this recruitment much but I would sure like it to stop being an issue. Sounds like the athletic department finally realized this. 
 

Watch this at about 8 min in 

 

Watched that last night

[rico]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Watched that last night

Were you staying at a Holiday Inn Express?

[Initial79]

4 hours ago, Drroogh said:

I understand and believe what you’re saying, but I have to wonder just how much whipped cream can you put on a milk shake! I think Indiana fans and the state in general let players KNOW they are rock stars and they don’t need individual intro’s. Also I feel that in order to compete on the floor you don’t want pampered pets you want trained attack dogs! Are the players that want fluff and hold their hands out for more NIL the ones you want? 

It is this… first, more fans need to realize it. The staff has to sell a lot harder than many realize. “How hard is it to sell IU, we have the best this, the best that, this staff keeps missing etc.”  

second, we have to be closer to par. You can’t have this even be a thing. Sales 101 is remove excuses and doubts. Should this matter than much, no but when guys are looking this effects perceptions. I hope the department finally understands it and ready to make some upgrades 

[rico]

58 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

It is this… first, more fans need to realize it. The staff has to sell a lot harder than many realize. “How hard is it to sell IU, we have the best this, the best that, this staff keeps missing etc.”  

second, we have to be closer to par. You can’t have this even be a thing. Sales 101 is remove excuses and doubts. Should this matter than much, no but when guys are looking this effects perceptions. I hope the department finally understands it and ready to make some upgrades 

You gonna donate a million to help fund those upgrades?

[Initial79]

30 minutes ago, rico said:

You gonna donate a million to help fund those upgrades?

Don’t need to. The school needs to decide to use all the TV money on it and quit adding to the endowment. 
 

guess we are the school of the poor while every rando college and build $30 million dollar new facilities 

[SawatchHoosier]

We're selling them this...

 

[Initial79]

50 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

We're selling them this...

 

Hey, I was the first one to say he was ours and did all week. I also said this didn’t apply to him on here, BTB and Twitter. Doesn’t make it not an issue.

the staff is doing their part. We need the school to invest. It’s simple. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

[Drroogh]

Didn’t see a good placeholder for this thought and didn’t want to start a new one so here it is. With IU needing to replace 4 starters this year and the possibility of having to replace 4 starters next year. It’s looking like IU in order to compete for championships is going to turn into an NBA developmental team. Is this what we are selling? We may never see a player like TJD play 4 years again! What are your thoughts feelings? Me I see the world changing some for good some for bad, but I’m willing to no longer have the joy of watching players develop over the course of their career. If for no other reason than to stop the crap of IU being spit on!

[MoyeCowbell]

1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

Didn’t see a good placeholder for this thought and didn’t want to start a new one so here it is. With IU needing to replace 4 starters this year and the possibility of having to replace 4 starters next year. It’s looking like IU in order to compete for championships is going to turn into an NBA developmental team. Is this what we are selling? We may never see a player like TJD play 4 years again! What are your thoughts feelings? Me I see the world changing some for good some for bad, but I’m willing to no longer have the joy of watching players develop over the course of their career. If for no other reason than to stop the crap of IU being spit on!

We are certainly trending towards a team that reloads instead of rebuilds, which is a nice change from recent decades (lol). What I see IU selling is a commitment to a high quality of product, played with equally high caliber talent, with goals that are aimed at the absolute top of the mountain. You can't predict results, but you can sell process, culture and ethos.

I personally don't like to speak in absolutes, so "never again" or "no longer" don't carry weight for me. There are so many types of players and unexpected wrinkles in a career that we'll still see plenty of 3- or 4-year players, and have ample opportunity to watch them develop over time. As we've seen with some of our 4 and 5 star recruits, not all are ready to be One and Done.

If anything, with the flurry of players jumping ship so frequently for perceived greener pastures, the players that DO stay become even more revered simply their loyalty to the program.

[IUCrazy2]

We sell this.

[13th&Jackson]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:21 AM, IowaHoosierFan said:

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by 13th&Jackson

[5fouls]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:58 AM, Drroogh said:

Didn’t see a good placeholder for this thought and didn’t want to start a new one so here it is. With IU needing to replace 4 starters this year and the possibility of having to replace 4 starters next year. It’s looking like IU in order to compete for championships is going to turn into an NBA developmental team. Is this what we are selling? We may never see a player like TJD play 4 years again! What are your thoughts feelings? Me I see the world changing some for good some for bad, but I’m willing to no longer have the joy of watching players develop over the course of their career. If for no other reason than to stop the crap of IU being spit on!

If I was younger and picking out sports to love, college basketball would not be one of them I would choose.

[13th&Jackson]

34 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If I was younger and picking out sports to love, college basketball would not be one of them I would choose.

Agree. I’d pick shin kicking

[IUCrazy2]

16 hours ago, 5fouls said:

If I was younger and picking out sports to love, college basketball would not be one of them I would choose.

Out of curiosity, what do you think you'd follow?

[FKIM01]

34 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Out of curiosity, what do you think you'd follow?

(Baited into derailment)

Aside from IU basketball, I mostly follow MMA. Exciting, unpredictable and (mostly at least) devoid of politics. 

[rico]

17 hours ago, 5fouls said:

If I was younger and picking out sports to love, college basketball would not be one of them I would choose.

Cornhole?

[IUFLA]

17 hours ago, 5fouls said:

If I was younger and picking out sports to love, college basketball would not be one of them I would choose.

It's an interesting thought...Maybe the money/free agent feel of the current college game isn't what's turning you off, but I have thoughts on that...

Most of us grew up with basketball as a part of our Hoosier DNA through high school, college, and eventually pro basketball in the area...

But this game changed things forever...

Einhorn only paid $27,000 for the TV rights to the game...Billions now...And beside the perks and scholarships that the kids get from being a high profile athlete, they get none of the $1 billion dollars a year the schools rake in...

NIL hasn't changed my opinion on college basketball and my love for it one bit...It's only fair that a famous kid, who's worked hard to acheive that fame make money off of his or her name, image and likeness...And to be honest, it's leveled the playing field...Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, and UNC no longer own the field of top recruits...Everybody can do what they've been doing for years legally now...And I think it's funny to watch them twist in the wind...