The “What are we selling to recruits” thread…

[Sea Turtle]

9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Like who, did Duke or UNC hire a big name with street cred. Really good coaches are not leaving really good jobs for other top jobs anymore 

Duke and UNC have not allowed their brands to sink to the level of Indiana. I know that sounds bad but it is reality. They were in the final four one year ago.

They also replaced legends with hand picked replacements. If they don't work out, I would imagine they would make a splash with the next hire. 

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Sea Turtle

[IUFLA]

4 hours ago, Initial79 said:

on3 ranking is about as good as their prediction score haha 

they are attempting to state their marketing value based on social media. This is totally separate from collectives and things like car dealer side deals. It is relevant but minor if that makes any sense 

All signs I see say that at worst IU is competitive in the NIL game, and at best among the top basketball schools in it... Come on man... Waaaay too much evidence to say they're not... 

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, Sea Turtle said:

Duke and UNC have not allowed their brands to sink to the level of Indiana. I know that sounds bad but it is reality. They were in the final four one year ago.

They also replaced legends with hand picked replacements. If they don't work out, I would imagine they would make a splash with the next hire. 

 

Villanova and Syracuse just replaced  legends with assistant coaches

 The days of great coaches leaving for other top jobs are over. Why would coaches want to leave where they are winning and has job security and come here and have the fans turn on you in a couple of years 

[IndyResident16]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Villanova and Syracuse just replaced  legends with assistant coaches

 The days of great coaches leaving for other top jobs are over. Why would coaches want to leave where they are winning and has job security and come here and have the fans turn on you in a couple of years 

Nova and Syracuse don’t have anywhere near the street credibility that Duke or UNC have. Don’t be surprised if both programs take significant dives, hell Syracuse has been trending down the last few years. Nova doesn’t appear to have the horses to play the NIL long game and I think Jay Wright saw that writing on the wall.

What I do know is that UNC nor Duke will hang onto their current coaches like a bad habit of things go south. IU has had an issue with cutting bait in the post-Knight era.

Edited April 26, 2023 by IndyResident16

[IndyResident16]

52 minutes ago, BGleas said:

 

 

Where’s all the Arkansas and Tennessee players 🤷‍♂️

[MoyeCowbell]

1 hour ago, Sea Turtle said:

I've been saying for years that Indiana is going to have to hire a coach that is exciting and has a name. Someone who gives you instant street cred with the players today. 

You're not going to get that with guys like Archie Miller and Mike Woodson. They are as exciting as a bologna sandwich. 

Insufferable.

Just for entertainment's sake, could you try some new material?

[Initial79]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

All signs I see say that at worst IU is competitive in the NIL game, and at best among the top basketball schools in it... Come on man... Waaaay too much evidence to say they're not... 

competitive for sure. I think my frustration is we have a wide swath of fans feelings on all this. Then we find random “lists” to help prove the narrative. I can find other “lists” too. The NIL March madness list there was already talked about as being from one specific online store and not the greater market. 

I don’t doubt that other list that says IU makes the most amount BB (some nice links to sources would be nice though for their data) but… this is not about the school. The school is not paying the players. It also doesn’t mean they have to spend it on facilities etc and haven’t traditionally. 

my point continues to be - this outside money coming in is way different.

There is NIL from your true name and social media presence. Again, the top athlete for that is a LSU gymnast among all sports. She gets like $50k per social post from brands who sponsor. She can wake up and say high and get $50k. IU does well there. 

There is NIL from collectives - IU does well and competitive but there is big money flowing in to those funds and that gap will grow wider. Alabama has more money than they know what to do with for football, so… maybe just let the BB team have few million to play with. 

Then there is NIL from direct deals. Adidas has helped us and I hope we push them again on making a splash beyond Ware. But there is nothing keeping a big money booster (see Miami) from throwing stupid money at a player and they still make on top of that. We only know about Ruiz because he bragged. I did find it funny that some odd looking rich guy decked out in Tenn. gear with his wife and dog followed Ledlum right after his visit and he followed him back. 

let’s try a new approach haha - so if it is not money, facilities etc - why is Alabama, Tenn. Arkansas even Georgia starting to land an embarrassment of talent from the portal (no Indy resident guy it is not the coaches). If it was just SEC or results - why not Kentucky, UNC, etc.? Those 2 schools are struggling with portal too and more like them. 

Does it matter - I continue to believe we will be fine. But, this is about the reason why and what those schools are selling. It is money in a lot of forms. 

[IndyResident16]

22 minutes ago, Initial79 said:

why is Alabama, Tenn. Arkansas even Georgia starting to land an embarrassment of talent from the portal (no Indy resident guy it is not the coaches).

Musselman has made a living in the portal before the portal became a thing. He built his teams at Nevada using transfers. He’s a pioneer in that regard. Georgia landing an embarrassment of talent? They’ve landed RJ Melendez who came off the bench at Illinois and a kid from VCU from ATL. Rick Barnes has been elite recruiter for two plus decades.

[FKIM01]

9 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

I've said for the better part of 25 years (not necessarily just here) but the missing link in terms of once again becoming a national power is a competent coaching staff. Half wits like Davis and Crean have lucked into some success because of the resources IU has to offer. Not ready to completely shut the door on Woodson and staff but striking out on the recruiting trail both last fall for incoming 23 targets and the portal this year doesn't bode well for future success. 

Oh please...Woodson has forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever know.  You remind me of a self-important former poster who posed as a coaching savant and was constantly critical of IU's coaching staff.  We later discovered that he was a failed Indiana high school girls basketball coach. 🙄🙄🙄

[OGIUAndy]

3 hours ago, Sea Turtle said:

I've been saying for years that Indiana is going to have to hire a coach that is exciting and has a name. Someone who gives you instant street cred with the players today. 

You're not going to get that with guys like Archie Miller and Mike Woodson. They are as exciting as a bologna sandwich. 

Archie I get your point. But who’s exciting? A dbag who takes off his shirt after a win? Coaches are very rarely exciting. Everyone was ready to kill for Stevens. Is he exciting? He’s got zero personality and doesn’t come off as a guy with “street cred”. I think reality + who would want to coach in a fishbowl like IU are not what you imagine. IU fans (and if not more so their former players) probably should revise their checklist. You can’t check every box and get a proven, exciting, no lose candidate. Mostly because everyone is always clamoring for some one with IU connections. And if they don’t? Man will the mob turn on them. Even Woody had “fire him” catcalls in year two!!! and for the most part he’s done a decent job.

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by OGIUAndy

[IndyResident16]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Oh please...Woodson has forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever know.  You remind me of a self-important former poster who posed as a coaching savant and was constantly critical of IU's coaching staff.  We later discovered that he was a failed Indiana high school girls basketball coach. 🙄🙄🙄

Lol. Not sure I’ve coached anything but my sons and daughters rec league soccer teams and that was almost 20 years ago. 
 

Pretty clearly stated I wasn’t throwing in the towel on Woodson just yet, but have seen repeated patterns of failure that lead me to believe he’s not the long term answer. 

[IUFLA]

9 hours ago, Initial79 said:

competitive for sure. I think my frustration is we have a wide swath of fans feelings on all this. Then we find random “lists” to help prove the narrative. I can find other “lists” too. The NIL March madness list there was already talked about as being from one specific online store and not the greater market. 

I don’t doubt that other list that says IU makes the most amount BB (some nice links to sources would be nice though for their data) but… this is not about the school. The school is not paying the players. It also doesn’t mean they have to spend it on facilities etc and haven’t traditionally. 

my point continues to be - this outside money coming in is way different.

There is NIL from your true name and social media presence. Again, the top athlete for that is a LSU gymnast among all sports. She gets like $50k per social post from brands who sponsor. She can wake up and say high and get $50k. IU does well there. 

There is NIL from collectives - IU does well and competitive but there is big money flowing in to those funds and that gap will grow wider. Alabama has more money than they know what to do with for football, so… maybe just let the BB team have few million to play with. 

Then there is NIL from direct deals. Adidas has helped us and I hope we push them again on making a splash beyond Ware. But there is nothing keeping a big money booster (see Miami) from throwing stupid money at a player and they still make on top of that. We only know about Ruiz because he bragged. I did find it funny that some odd looking rich guy decked out in Tenn. gear with his wife and dog followed Ledlum right after his visit and he followed him back. 

let’s try a new approach haha - so if it is not money, facilities etc - why is Alabama, Tenn. Arkansas even Georgia starting to land an embarrassment of talent from the portal (no Indy resident guy it is not the coaches). If it was just SEC or results - why not Kentucky, UNC, etc.? Those 2 schools are struggling with portal too and more like them. 

Does it matter - I continue to believe we will be fine. But, this is about the reason why and what those schools are selling. It is money in a lot of forms. 

I can't help but think you and @IndyResident16 are building two different mountains off of two different molehills, but I enjoy the different perspectives...

 

[ledies22]

8 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

Lol. Not sure I’ve coached anything but my sons and daughters rec league soccer teams and that was almost 20 years ago. 
 

Pretty clearly stated I wasn’t throwing in the towel on Woodson just yet, but have seen repeated patterns of failure that lead me to believe he’s not the long term answer. 

Im not sure if you actually realize, in recruiting, you are going to have more "failures" than success. per 24/7 we have offered +/-27 kids for the '24 class. WE WILL NOT LAND EVERY ONE OF THOSE RECRUITS. So get your iron out and try not to get your panties in a wad. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by ledies22

[IndyResident16]

3 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

Im not sure if you actually realize, in recruiting, you are going to have more "failures" than success. per 24/7 we have offered +/-27 kids for the '24 class. WE WILL NOT LAND EVERY ONE OF THOSE RECRUITS. So get your iron out and try not to get your panties in a wad. 

Of course you don't land every single player you offer, who has suggested that? We haven't landed a single wing scorer in either the 23 class or the portal. We need two for next year, hence "striking out".

What is wrong with pointing that out? Unless you've been living under a rock for the last decade, guards win games in the tournament. Our current best off-ball guard option right now is Trey Galloway who averages a whopping 2 made FG's a game for his career. You may not think that's a problem but you also aren't living in any kind of reality either. 

[ledies22]

5 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Of course you don't land every single player you offer, who has suggested that? We haven't landed a single wing scorer in either the 23 class or the portal. We need two for next year, hence "striking out".

What is wrong with pointing that out? Unless you've been living under a rock for the last decade, guards win games in the tournament. Our current best off-ball guard option right now is Trey Galloway who averages a whopping 2 made FG's a game for his career. You may not think that's a problem but you also aren't living in any kind of reality either. 

Im pretty sure that is a well known fact that IU needs wings. I think much of it has to do with your tone of.... the staff is inadequate, we cant land a recruit, the world is on fire... that falls on deaf ears and becoming an annoyance. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

I love the offseason message board.

[IndyResident16]

1 minute ago, ledies22 said:

Im pretty sure that is a well known fact that IU needs wings. I think much of it has to do with your tone of.... the staff is inadequate, we cant land a recruit, the world is on fire... that falls on deaf ears and becoming an annoyance. 

Well it just sounds like you can't handle the truth. If the roster isn't adequate enough to compete for a B10 title that falls solely on the staff, no? I mean who else is responsible for constructing the roster? You? Me? I'm not blaming anyone else here. 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

Im pretty sure that is a well known fact that IU needs wings. I think much of it has to do with your tone of.... the staff is inadequate, we cant land a recruit, the world is on fire... that falls on deaf ears and becoming an annoyance. 

Don't we have 3 kids (Banks, Gunn, Newton) on the roster who are at least potentially wing scorers?

Before you can become a "proven commodity" like people seem to believe Knecht and Ledlum are (factoring in the unknown against consistent P6 competition and not one game against Kansas) you have to get your chance...

I think with the player development we've seen in Woody's program so far, it's not a stretch to believe one of them emerge... 

[NotIThatLives]

8 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Well it just sounds like you can't handle the truth. If the roster isn't adequate enough to compete for a B10 title that falls solely on the staff, no? I mean who else is responsible for constructing the roster? You? Me? I'm not blaming anyone else here. 

Do you think the roster is complete?  

Are we done recruiting for next year already as well?  

Will you still be here in the weeks and months to come as the roster comes to fruition to swallow your chill pill?

Eat a gummy, go for a nature walk, pray, read, exercise, IDK.  

[IndyResident16]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Do you think the roster is complete?  

Are we done recruiting for next year already as well?  

Will you still be here in the weeks and months to come as the roster comes to fruition to swallow your chill pill?

Eat a gummy, go for a nature walk, pray, read, exercise, IDK.  

Lol.

I fully expect a few transfers to pop here in the next couple weeks. We won't go into the season with 10 scholarship players, that I'm sure.

My worry, and it definitely isn't without a merit, is that we're at the point where we're going to be adding tier 3 and tier 4 guys just to fill the roster. That isn't a recipe for success. We've whiffed on too many primary targets to feel comfortable heading down the stretch. 

[bluegrassIU]

20 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I love the offseason message board.

No you don't!   😅

[BGleas]

27 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I love the offseason message board.

Jordan Geronimo is NOT a wing!!!!!

P.S. just go with it. We can argue for 3 pages and then make up via PM's later. 

[NotIThatLives]

23 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Lol.

I fully expect a few transfers to pop here in the next couple weeks. We won't go into the season with 10 scholarship players, that I'm sure.

My worry, and it definitely isn't without a merit, is that we're at the point where we're going to be adding tier 3 and tier 4 guys just to fill the roster. That isn't a recipe for success. We've whiffed on too many primary targets to feel comfortable heading down the stretch. 

See, I was disappointed, really thought Timberlake, Knecht,  and even Ledlum would have helped for sure.  I fully trust that more dudes will become available.   Even before portal life, studs become available even late in the summer and even into early fall.  

I would guess based on the stress in your posts, your worry level projects like a 9.5.  My worry level is like a 1.5.  I still fully anticipate this staff to pull some guys and we will be in the 15-25 range next year.  

Edited April 26, 2023 by NotIThatLives

[IUFLA]

21 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

 we're going to be adding tier 3 and tier 4 guys just to fill the roster. That isn't a recipe for success. 

What's the cutoff between tier 2 and tier 3? Is there a particular number in the ratings? 

[IndyResident16]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

What's the cutoff between tier 2 and tier 3? Is there a particular number in the ratings? 

Not infatuated with ratings/rankings at all. Just dudes who can come in and contribute at a high level right away. That level of player is dwindling by the day.