The “What are we selling to recruits” thread…

[bluegrassIU]

21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Just wish you do that somewhere else

He has strong opinions, and not popular opinions. That is in no way a reason to tell anybody they shouldn't be here. 

 

[IndyResident16]

2 minutes ago, IUskim said:

Um. Which two would that be?

Kenya Hunter and Brian Walsh. 

[IUFLA]

3 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

He has strong opinions, and not popular opinions. That is in no way is a reason to tell anybody they shouldn't be here. 

 

Ah, that's just Scott's homage to the the Cancel Culture 😁

[IUskim]

4 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Kenya Hunter and Brian Walsh. 

Oh yeah. I always forget Walsh was on the previous staff for some reason. 

[bluegrassIU]

21 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Kenya Hunter and Brian Walsh. 

Bryan Walsh had something to dith our guard play while Archie Miller was here? And now under Woodson?

Now that's a stretch dude. 

We have our culprit....

Brian Walsh!   🤦‍♂️

[IndyResident16]

1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said:

Bryan Walsh had something to dith our guard play while Archie Miller was here? And now under Woodson?

Now that's a stretch dude. 

We have our culprit....

Brian Walsh!   🤦‍♂️

I responded to a poster who said our current staff has nothing to do with Archie Miller. That's patently false as two of our three assistants were brought to Indiana by Archie Miller himself. Never said anything about Brian Walsh relating to our current guard play.

Which part is wrong?

[5fouls]

2 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

I held season tickets from 1988 to 2016. I'll do whatever the hell I please. 

I'll be damned.  I've identified the root cause of IU's problems.  They haven't won a National Championship since you became a season ticket holder.  

It's YOUR fault!!!

 

[Artesian_86]

21 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

Good lord I said the 2 and 3 spots; Galloway (2) + Kopp (3) total equals 14 pts. JHS played point guard during the conference season. You may be able to add but you certainly can't read. 

 

 

The rest of your post is just nonsense. Arguing in a time frame where IU missed the tournament in 4 out of 5 times to try and justify a productive backcourt is just flat nonsense. Romeo be damned, the rest of IU's guards during the Archie Miller era were flat terrible. 

[HoosierFaithful]

Everyone stop debating the poster and start debating the point. If you can’t do that, just don’t post.

[Artesian_86]

8 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Everyone stop debating the poster and start debating the point. If you can’t do that, just don’t post.

[IowaHoosierFan]

Here are some offensive stats i pulled based off of last years number (https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/1288/p2 )

3pt % - Ranked 46th (36.76)
3pt attempts 324th (5.7 a game)
Assists Per Game - 42nd
Avg Score - 102nd
Effective FG% - 51st
Bench Points per game - 201st (Not getting alot from the bench)
Scoring Defense - 135th
3pt Scoring Defense - 154th

I think because we don't shoot the 3ball alot and from past years not shooting it well ( i don't have these numbers to back it up, just a gut feel says we haven't been a great/good 3pt team in a while) our backcourt gets looked at as not being very good.  Also, we gave up alot of 3s this season and our scoring defense overall was just above average with 3pt defense being right about middle, our backcourt takes some heat.  Our defense was much better last year with XJ in the line up. It fell off this year without him and having an freshman at the lead.

With that being said, we did pretty good while losing XJ, starting a Freshman at Point, utilizing a 3 at the 2 spot in Trey and having almost no scoring or defense coming off the bench in others.

We had over expectations this year as a fanbase and was disappointed when we didn't perform at the level everyone thought.  Some of that is out of control of the coaching staff and players, while some of it lands squarely on them.  The players need to develop individually and with the coaching staffs help.  The staff has to make them better and put them in position to be better, not sure how i feel on this yet.  I feel TJD and JHS definitely improved year over year and beginning to end of the season. 

But i also see guys like Race, Bates, Kopp and JG who either regressed or was exactly the same from the previous year.  Was it the individual or the coaching staff or both that failed is up for debate.  (and yes there was some injury to guys, so i do take that into account)  I also think trey got better from last year to this year.  Significantly, no, but he played much better, shot the ball better but is still reckless with the ball and his decision making at time.  Needs to be better in those situations and shoot the ball more when open. And i do understand that Kopp was what he was and was very important in many other ways.  Still think he was basically the same player year to year.

We also were a Jekkel and Hyde team depending on who we played and where we played.  The consistency of the team was all over the board, making fan feel all warm and fuzzy one game, just to throw things at the tv the next.  Need to get this resolved for future teams.  Must be able to travel and put back to back performance together.

Do we need better guards/wings, maybe, maybe not.  Depends on growth of the current players.  If our guards/wings don't make a jump in at lease either defense or offense, we're going to struggle without TJD on the post.  Would love to have had a proven power 6 wing who can shoot the 3 and attack the rim equally and defend well.  But those are hard to come by and honestly, IU still hasn't moved back up to the popular place to choose.  Do we get there, i hope so.  Will it happen, i don't know.  Trending well at the moment, but the next 2 years are going to be telling of what our upward angle is to get back on the podium of blood blood destinations. 

I wouldn't call out backcourt this year or even last as atrocious or anything over the top.  I would say we were lacking in areas and definitely had/have room for improvement.  Without TJD to anchor the inside, its going to be interesting to see if our backcourt can step up be the reason we win games.  Or will they fold and be the reason we lose games.  Or somewhere in the middle for the non-optimist no-pessimists out there.  Those right in the middle even keel guys and gals.

Sorry for the long post.

Go Hoosiers

 

[FKIM01]

4 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Just wish you do that somewhere else

Dammit, Scott...you took Chicken Little OFF ignore?!!! 😂😂😂

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Dammit, Scott...you took Chicken Little OFF ignore?!!! 😂😂😂

He is back on the list

[Purdue7]

11 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Here are some offensive stats i pulled based off of last years number (https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/1288/p2 )

3pt % - Ranked 46th (36.76)
3pt attempts 324th (5.7 a game)
Assists Per Game - 42nd
Avg Score - 102nd
Effective FG% - 51st
Bench Points per game - 201st (Not getting alot from the bench)
Scoring Defense - 135th
3pt Scoring Defense - 154th

I think because we don't shoot the 3ball alot and from past years not shooting it well ( i don't have these numbers to back it up, just a gut feel says we haven't been a great/good 3pt team in a while) our backcourt gets looked at as not being very good.  Also, we gave up alot of 3s this season and our scoring defense overall was just above average with 3pt defense being right about middle, our backcourt takes some heat.  Our defense was much better last year with XJ in the line up. It fell off this year without him and having an freshman at the lead.

With that being said, we did pretty good while losing XJ, starting a Freshman at Point, utilizing a 3 at the 2 spot in Trey and having almost no scoring or defense coming off the bench in others.

We had over expectations this year as a fanbase and was disappointed when we didn't perform at the level everyone thought.  Some of that is out of control of the coaching staff and players, while some of it lands squarely on them.  The players need to develop individually and with the coaching staffs help.  The staff has to make them better and put them in position to be better, not sure how i feel on this yet.  I feel TJD and JHS definitely improved year over year and beginning to end of the season. 

But i also see guys like Race, Bates, Kopp and JG who either regressed or was exactly the same from the previous year.  Was it the individual or the coaching staff or both that failed is up for debate.  (and yes there was some injury to guys, so i do take that into account)  I also think trey got better from last year to this year.  Significantly, no, but he played much better, shot the ball better but is still reckless with the ball and his decision making at time.  Needs to be better in those situations and shoot the ball more when open. And i do understand that Kopp was what he was and was very important in many other ways.  Still think he was basically the same player year to year.

We also were a Jekkel and Hyde team depending on who we played and where we played.  The consistency of the team was all over the board, making fan feel all warm and fuzzy one game, just to throw things at the tv the next.  Need to get this resolved for future teams.  Must be able to travel and put back to back performance together.

Do we need better guards/wings, maybe, maybe not.  Depends on growth of the current players.  If our guards/wings don't make a jump in at lease either defense or offense, we're going to struggle without TJD on the post.  Would love to have had a proven power 6 wing who can shoot the 3 and attack the rim equally and defend well.  But those are hard to come by and honestly, IU still hasn't moved back up to the popular place to choose.  Do we get there, i hope so.  Will it happen, i don't know.  Trending well at the moment, but the next 2 years are going to be telling of what our upward angle is to get back on the podium of blood blood destinations. 

I wouldn't call out backcourt this year or even last as atrocious or anything over the top.  I would say we were lacking in areas and definitely had/have room for improvement.  Without TJD to anchor the inside, its going to be interesting to see if our backcourt can step up be the reason we win games.  Or will they fold and be the reason we lose games.  Or somewhere in the middle for the non-optimist no-pessimists out there.  Those right in the middle even keel guys and gals.

Sorry for the long post.

Go Hoosiers

 

5.7 3’s attempted a game?

Doesn't seem possible….

[NAHoosier62]

8 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

5.7 3’s attempted a game?

Doesn't seem possible….

Yeah, that seemed odd to me, so I looked it up.  It should be 5.7 3's made per game on 15.5 attempted.

 

 

Quote

 

 

[mrflynn03]

On 4/24/2023 at 11:45 AM, Initial79 said:

Speak in condescending tones? You are reading into things that are not there. This is text and text is much harder to discern than spoken word.  The responses I have received could be called equally condescending. 
 

Let me ask you something. If you were new here, had some first hand insight into some of this. Tried to provide that insight only to have a mob of people tell you that you are wrong. How would you respond? All I have done is try and defend what I know is fact with people throwing things back that I know not to be true. 

What do you do for a living? Let’s say you are a doctor of ortho. You try to provide insight here on an knee injury because you know some facts around it. While it might not apply to that exact situation (and you preface that multiple times when giving this insight), you have people tell you over and over that you are wrong. You try telling them you have first hand knowledge of this and they still dismiss it. You point them to documented facts to prove it out and still dismiss it. All the while l people continue to speculate what could have went wrong with his knee? 

I am honestly about ready to just give up posting. Not worth my time. Huge fan but this seems to be a tight group. People speak in truths and platitudes here daily but everyone gives them a pass because they are an “insider” or someone knows them in real life.  The best part is when those truths are wrong but people eat it up. 

I will say that I have had multiple posters DM me saying they appreciate the insight, that they agree but they themselves just read and don’t post anymore because this board is dominated by certain individuals and their word is gold. 

Done arguing it. IU does not have the NiL to compete with the big time football schools. Bloomington is not the garden of eden and it doesn’t play with some guys. The facilities do still need major updates and they do not compete (some recruits don’t care but some do). NIL will allow the schools with deep pockets to further separate with direct and indirect money.

IU is not an “easy” sell.  That exact phrase is what prompted me to provide this insight.  Does that mean we suck, all hope is lost, heck no and said this plenty of times.  I was hoping that insight would get people to stop bashing the staff for losing guys to a “football” school and help maybe some older posters see a slightly younger and first hand perspective.

A lot to catch up on so I just saw this. 

The comment about Bloomington not being a garden of eden is spot on. I live not far away and have been working there for the last couple years. Don't get me wrong, I like Bloomington but I wouldn't live there. It's kind of a dump. 

I've worked with quite a few IU grads and hardly any of them want to or do stick around. 

[mrflynn03]

On 4/25/2023 at 9:08 PM, Sea Turtle said:

Duke and UNC have not allowed their brands to sink to the level of Indiana. I know that sounds bad but it is reality. They were in the final four one year ago.

They also replaced legends with hand picked replacements. If they don't work out, I would imagine they would make a splash with the next hire. 

 

They also didn't nuke their programs. 

[Zuckerkorn]

18 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Here are some offensive stats i pulled based off of last years number (https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/1288/p2 )

3pt % - Ranked 46th (36.76)
3pt attempts 324th (5.7 a game)
Assists Per Game - 42nd
Avg Score - 102nd
Effective FG% - 51st
Bench Points per game - 201st (Not getting alot from the bench)
Scoring Defense - 135th
3pt Scoring Defense - 154th

....

 

 

I think those statistics accurately illustrate our strengths & weakness last season.  The 3-pt part especially so - on both sides of the ball.  I maintain that 3 point shooting was an issue we need to improve on.  A good percentage is of less importance when you shoot so few.  Add in that a huge chunk of the ones we did make were by players now no longer on the roster.  XJ should provide a boost in that area but I strongly feel we need a large infusion in that facet of the game.  Time will tell...

[IndyResident16]

1 hour ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I think those statistics accurately illustrate our strengths & weakness last season.  The 3-pt part especially so - on both sides of the ball.  I maintain that 3 point shooting was an issue we need to improve on.  A good percentage is of less importance when you shoot so few.  Add in that a huge chunk of the ones we did make were by players now no longer on the roster.  XJ should provide a boost in that area but I strongly feel we need a large infusion in that facet of the game.  Time will tell...

To expand on just the shooting aspect, we lacked any kind of legitimate scorer in the backcourt outside JHS. Your off-ball guards need not only be able to shoot (Galloway and Kopp were serviceable in that department) but score at all 3 levels. Kopp and Galloway as the other perimeter players COMBINED to make less than 6 baskets a game last year. That's never going to cut it in a single elimination style tournament where guards are expected to shine. 

I know everyone is screaming "shooters, shooters, shooters" but at the end of the day, this team needs scorers. That's why missing out on Ledlum and not gaining any traction with Knecht really hurts. I anticipate Galloway being a reliable 3 point threat next year, but I really think he has maxed out his offensive potential. He's just not the type of player that you can expect to get you 15-16 points a game. 

[MoyeCowbell]

28 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

To expand on just the shooting aspect, we lacked any kind of legitimate scorer in the backcourt outside JHS. Your off-ball guards need not only be able to shoot (Galloway and Kopp were serviceable in that department) but score at all 3 levels. Kopp and Galloway as the other perimeter players COMBINED to make less than 6 baskets a game last year. That's never going to cut it in a single elimination style tournament where guards are expected to shine. 

I know everyone is screaming "shooters, shooters, shooters" but at the end of the day, this team needs scorers. That's why missing out on Ledlum and not gaining any traction with Knecht really hurts. I anticipate Galloway being a reliable 3 point threat next year, but I really think he has maxed out his offensive potential. He's just not the type of player that you can expect to get you 15-16 points a game. 

Hey yo, I agree with some of what you say here. Yes, we need more perimeter scoring, and certainly a nice balance amongst our backcourt/wing positions. With TJD gone -- and until Reneau & Ware really establish themselves as points of emphasis on the offensive end -- I believe there will be more balance and opportunities to score across the roster, by necessity if nothing else.

In terms of Ledlum and Knecht, just them them go. It's like complaining about a skinned knee from last week. The sting is gone and we're not really "hurt". They aren't/weren't the only salves to our scoring needs. The staff is scouring the landscape looking for viable options, many of whom are still popping up on the daily.

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, MoyeCowbell said:

Hey yo, I agree with some of what you say here. Yes, we need more perimeter scoring, and certainly a nice balance amongst our backcourt/wing positions. With TJD gone -- and until Reneau & Ware really establish themselves as points of emphasis on the offensive end -- I believe there will be more balance and opportunities to score across the roster, by necessity if nothing else.

In terms of Ledlum and Knecht, just them them go. It's like complaining about a skinned knee from last week. The sting is gone and we're not really "hurt". They aren't/weren't the only salves to our scoring needs. The staff is scouring the landscape looking for viable options, many of whom are still popping up on the daily.

Also, missing out isn't necessarily a coaching issue at this point.  Until we're a premier basketball school again, we're gonna be hard pressed to have the pick of the litter.  Continue to win, get guys to the NBA and stay at the top of the NIL and we will continue to climb the mountain.  What is on the coaching staff, is winning with what we have.  Developing what we have into more than expected from those players.  And making those big name player lottery picks.  That will move mountains and make IU a must to to basketball school again.  We haven't had that for 30+ years.  But if Coach Woodson can continue and speed up the pace a bit, we can be set up in the future.  It will also make hiring a replacement in 10 years much easier when we're a premier blue blood again.

Go Hoosiers

[Reacher]

Top 15 most Beautiful Campus! 

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/slideshows/beautiful-college-campuses?slide=5

 

I searched for a thread on beautiful campuses but couldn't find one so this ended up here. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

On 4/27/2023 at 11:33 PM, Purdue7 said:

5.7 3’s attempted a game?

Doesn't seem possible….

Sorry that was made percentage, we averaged 15.5 attempts which ranked 342, still pretty low

[IUFLA]

In 2012-2013 the New York Knicks set what was at that time, the NBA season record for 3 point attempts (891)...Guess who coached that team?

I think Coach Woodson wants more 3 point attempts, but he knew his bread and butter was going to be TJD for as long as he was there...

If you think about it, talking all of the players into coming back in Woody's first season was an ultra-smart move. Provided program stability and I think CMW knew he could win with that bunch...

They just weren't going to shoot a lot of 3s...

[MoyeCowbell]

7 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

In 2012-2013 the New York Knicks set what was at that time, the NBA season record for 3 point attempts (891)...Guess who coached that team?

I think Coach Woodson wants more 3 point attempts, but he knew his bread and butter was going to be TJD for as long as he was there...

If you think about it, talking all of the players into coming back in Woody's first season was an ultra-smart move. Provided program stability and I think CMW knew he could win with that bunch...

They just weren't going to shoot a lot of 3s...

An addendum to this is CMW doesn't try to fit a square peg into a round whole. He understands basketball and personnel so well that he can adapt (mostly, he isn't perfect of course) to their strengths and try to mitigate the weaknesses.