dgambill Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 24 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'm trying to think of the last win we had that felt this bad? Akron football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: But, why should he play at Reneau's expense. That's what I am asking about. What has MM shown in these 4 games (exhibitions included) that indicates he should get more floor time than Reneau. We, as fans, need to stop basing our thinking on the number of stars a guy has. Same kind of crap we went through when everyone on the board wanted Perea and Hollowell to come in and take over for Watford and Oladipo, It's mind boggling. It has nothing to do with the stars, you know that. It's about style of play. Ware is an NBA-talent center. He's better than Reneau at this point. The rest is about style of play. We don't play fast enough. We don't take remotely enough 3's. We don't get to lane/basket enough because always have 2 bigs in there. Mgbako hasn't been good. Nobody has said he has. But the coaches haven't done a single thing so far to utilize his talent. Mgbako is an elite shooter and his skillset is better suited as a "college 4". We need shooting and we need to shoot more 3's, but our style of play and lineup rotations are not conducive to that. How about we try to get our best shooter involved a little bit? It doesn't mean Reneau won't play or won't get opportunities. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parakeet Jones Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 So, are we going to discuss the fact X called Ware and Reneau soft on the post game interview? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, KoB2011 said: The flipside is what has Reneau shown that says he should automatically get those minutes? He is a bad rebounder, defender, and has awful vision passing the ball. He's not a good defender. I'll give you that, but Mgbako is just as bad. But, you're going to criticize his rebounding and passing on a night when he leads the team in boards and assists? Come on now. Kaleb Banks outscored Mgbako tonight and had an equal amount of rebounds, in fewer minutes. Did Woodson do anything 'special' to get Banks his stats? No. Mgbako has not shown he deserves special treatment from the coaches. And, it's not just one game. We're reaching Hanner Perea level of promotion for him, which, for whatever reason, includes criticizing someone like Reneau, who is actually producing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Parakeet Jones said: So, are we going to discuss the fact X called Ware and Reneau soft on the post game interview? I mentioned it on Page 1, and no one bit. I don't know what to think about it. I fully understand there is some truth to it. But, it's also true that those two were the only guys outside of X that showed up tonight. I would have felt better if he had phrased it in a way that called teh whole team soft and not singled out those two players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 The team’s deficiencies are clear and it goes back to the off season. Woodson needed a guard or two and a shooter…he didn’t address the team’s needs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, 5fouls said: He's not a good defender. I'll give you that, but Mgbako is just as bad. But, you're going to criticize his rebounding and passing on a night when he leads the team in boards and assists? Come on now. Kaleb Banks outscored Mgbako tonight and had an equal amount of rebounds, in fewer minutes. Did Woodson do anything 'special' to get Banks his stats? No. Mgbako has not shown he deserves special treatment from the coaches. And, it's not just one game. We're reaching Hanner Perea level of promotion for him, which, for whatever reason, includes criticizing someone like Reneau, who is actually producing. Yes, going to criticize him for his passing and rebounding. It isn’t good - he missed wide open guys all the time when he gets the ball on the block. Leading the team in rebounding when he specifically had a huge size advantage on his man and we only out rebounded Army by 3 doesn’t prove much to me. He doesn’t rebound out of his area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierfan1901 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Hoosier987 said: The team’s deficiencies are clear and it goes back to the off season. Woodson needed a guard or two and a shooter…he didn’t address the team’s needs. Hopefully he goes after guards once this season is over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 22 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'm seriously questioning the coaching of this team, while also trying to understand that Woodson is working in several new faces. Just don't really like the construction of this roster or how its being coached right now. Also understanding it's incredibly early, we have a long way to go and will get better (hopefully) A lot of redundancy on this roster and unfortunately not enough in a good way. It’s a log jam at the 4/5 and not a single one of them can play defense. We are thin in the backcourt…very thin and Gunn might be worse than he was as a freshman. I’m worried because Ware is dominating right now…but will he be able to look the same against Power 6 teams?? Xavier doesn’t look good and I think that is our biggest problem… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 I'm not even saying Reneau is playing bad. I have some criticisms of him, but that isn't even my point. I hate our style of play and think it's going to cost us games. It's all about style of play and scheme for me. I don't like ours. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, BGleas said: It has nothing to do with the stars, you know that. It's about style of play. Ware is an NBA-talent center. He's better than Reneau at this point. The rest is about style of play. We don't play fast enough. We don't take remotely enough 3's. We don't get to lane/basket enough because always have 2 bigs in there. Mgbako hasn't been good. Nobody has said he has. But the coaches haven't done a single thing so far to utilize his talent. Mgbako is an elite shooter and his skillset is better suited as a "college 4". We need shooting and we need to shoot more 3's, but our style of play and lineup rotations are not conducive to that. How about we try to get our best shooter involved a little bit? It doesn't mean Reneau won't play or won't get opportunities. Mgbako is an 'elite' shooter because Todd Leary told us he was. Romeo was an alite shooter until he wasn't. Leal was an elite shooter until he wasn't. Lots of guys are 'shooters' in high school and in the no-defense version of basketball called AAU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, dgambill said: A lot of redundancy on this roster and unfortunately not enough in a good way. It’s a log jam at the 4/5 and not a single one of them can play defense. We are thin in the backcourt…very thin and Gunn might be worse than he was as a freshman. I’m worried because Ware is dominating right now…but will he be able to look the same against Power 6 teams?? Xavier doesn’t look good and I think that is our biggest problem… Yeah, this is a weirdly constructed roster. At this point I think you have XJ, Galloway, Cupps, Mgbako, Ware and Reneau. Banks situationally. That's my core. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Mgbako is an 'elite' shooter because Todd Leary told us he was. Romeo was an alite shooter until he wasn't. Leal was an elite shooter until he wasn't. Lots of guys are 'shooters' in high school and in the no-defense version of basketball called AAU. Have you not watched Mgbako shoot in the limited opportunities he's had? His shot is pure. Nobody smart thought Leal was a shooter. I don't remember anyone considering Langford a pure shooter. You keep trying to make this a "you all are just fawning over a 5*" thing and that's a pure strawman. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dgambill said: Xavier doesn’t look good and I think that is our biggest problem… I'll disagree with that. Has it been an All-American level start for him? No. Is he the player that shoulders the most blame for how the team looks? Not hardly. Edited November 13, 2023 by 5fouls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Mgbako is an 'elite' shooter because Todd Leary told us he was. Romeo was an alite shooter until he wasn't. Leal was an elite shooter until he wasn't. Lots of guys are 'shooters' in high school and in the no-defense version of basketball called AAU. The few field goals he has made are shots nobody on our roster in the last 4 years could make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, 5fouls said: I'll disagree with that. Has it been an All-American level start for him? Is he the player that shoulders the most blame for how the team looks? Not hardly. Agree. XJ has been solid. 19 points on 8 shots, got to the line 9 times and had 5 assists. He plays hard too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, 5fouls said: I'll disagree with that. Has it been an All-American level start for him? Is he the player that shoulders the most blame for how the team looks? Not hardly. Offense runs through your point guard…I put a lot on him…and his defense was horrible tonight…he allowed several straight line drives by much much less athletic players. He was sloppy with the ball. For a 6 year senior he is a huge letdown imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, BGleas said: Have you not watched Mgbako shoot in the limited opportunities he's had? His shot is pure. Nobody smart thought Leal was a shooter. I don't remember anyone considering Langford a pure shooter. You keep trying to make this a "you all are just fawning over a 5*" thing and that's a pure strawman. Reneau has played better than Mgbako so far this season. Period. That's not being a strawman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, 5fouls said: Reneau has played better than Mgbako so far this season. Period. That's not being a strawman. That not what I said was a strawman and you know it. I have been crystal clear. I hate our style of play and feel the coaches have poorly utilized Mgbako. I have also said that Mgbako has to hold up his end of the bargain and play better. But, we're playing a losing style of basketball and have a guy that can provide part of what we're missing and we're not utilizing him or putting him in positions to be successful. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: The few field goals he has made are shots nobody on our roster in the last 4 years could make 'Few' is an appropriate reference. Tamar Bates occasionally looked like a shooter with promise at points the last 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Some things just don’t show up in a box score…there have been plenty of stretches of bad play by just about everyone. I’d like to see Mgbako at the 4 with Ware a little bit…not saying Reneau isn’t better but think he could slide to the 5 to spell Ware and all 3 could share a majority of the minutes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 I get that a lot of things are wrong with this team even given the small sample size we have witnessed. I just don’t see an Bako vs Reneau issue as being one of them. We need them both playing and playing well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, dgambill said: Some things just don’t show up in a box score…there have been plenty of stretches of bad play by just about everyone. I’d like to see Mgbako at the 4 with Ware a little bit…not saying Reneau isn’t better but think he could slide to the 5 to spell Ware and all 3 could share a majority of the minutes. Completely agree, and this would get us into a better style of play. Play faster, get our guards into the paint, have shooters around the perimeter, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euroclydon Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Nothing changed since tge first exhibition. Can't keep the ball in front of them and it leads to open threes. Not committed to controlling the boards. No identity on offense. This is a very slow footed team overall. It's going to be hard to defend anyone playing mostly slow plodding forwards and center. Not sure they continue with their current rotation but CMW gets locked in on starters and he is committed to MM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, BGleas said: That not what I said was a strawman and you know it. I have been crystal clear. I hate our style of play and feel the coaches have poorly utilized Mgbako. I have also said that Mgbako has to hold up his end of the bargain and play better. But, we're playing a losing style of basketball and have a guy that can provide part of what we're missing and we're not utilizing him or putting him in positions to be successful. The coach is playing, and scheming for, who is being more productive in the opportunities provided. I'm not going to criticize Woodson for that. Did Bob Knight 'make' Calbert Cheaney a great wing player, or did Calbert have a little bit to do with proving himself from Day 1? I repeat, Kaleb Banks out-produced MM tonight, in fewer minutes. Woodson didn't go out of his way to scheme for Banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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