Army Post Game Thread

[BGleas]

Just now, Inequality said:

I get that a lot of things are wrong with this team even given the small sample size we have witnessed. I just don’t see an Bako vs Reneau issue as being one of them. We need them both playing and playing well.

Agree completely. Nobody that wants Mgbako to get time at the 4 has said that Reneau shouldn't play. 

Of course he should. But, we also need to play a different style. 

The guys that don't really need to play are Sparks and Walker. 

Shrink the lineup, get Mgbako at the 4 and there are tons of minutes between Ware, Reneau and Mgbako. 

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Some things just don’t show up in a box score…there have been plenty of stretches of bad play by just about everyone. I’d like to see Mgbako at the 4 with Ware a little bit…not saying Reneau isn’t better but think he could slide to the 5 to spell Ware and all 3 could share a majority of the minutes.

I don't want Reneau spelling Ware because I want Ware on the floor for 35 minutes.  he's our biggest difference maker.  

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Completely agree, and this would get us into a better style of play. Play faster, get our guards into the paint, have shooters around the perimeter, etc. 

agreed…100% 

[Inequality]

I agree that we should play downhill and use our athleticism to our advantage.

Bako should be scoring option number 1.

[Seeking6]

Ok gang. Had to miss a good chunk of game because of family stuff. Was following online but tell me what happened? Just early growing pains of getting guys together with new pieces and faces? Or just a bad night?

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

The coach is playing, and scheming for, who is being more productive in the opportunities provided.  I'm not going to criticize Woodson for that.  Did Bob Knight 'make' Calbert Cheaney a great wing player, or did Calbert have a little bit to do with proving himself from Day 1? 

I repeat, Kaleb Banks out-produced MM tonight, in fewer minutes.  Woodson didn't go out of his way to scheme for Banks.  

 

Well, the coaches have put Mgbako in a terrible position to be successful. 

Also, not sure what you're thing with Banks is? Both guys made one shot and were largely uninvolved in any action. 

It's kind of funny you keep making that comparison because Mgbako and Banks are playing the same role (the Kopp role) and both are basically ignored offensively and stuck in the corner. 

It's not the point you think it is. 

[tdhoosier]

6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

'Few' is an appropriate reference.

Tamar Bates occasionally looked like a shooter with promise at points the last 2 years.  

Exactly. He only has been given a few opportunities. The ‘few’ came when a play was ran for him. 

I think this is everybody’s point. He’s a weapon that’s not being utilized by the coaching staff. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Agree completely. Nobody that wants Mgbako to get time at the 4 has said that Reneau shouldn't play. 

Of course he should. But, we also need to play a different style. 

The guys that don't really need to play are Sparks and Walker. 

Shrink the lineup, get Mgbako at the 4 and there are tons of minutes between Ware, Reneau and Mgbako. 

Well said. Redundant. Sparks and Walker don’t offer anything other than a body. I want them on the team….we will need them when foul trouble hit…but they just aren’t plus players. I know it’s early but we will have to shorten the bench and Mgbako best fit is the 4…at least right now until his game speeds up and recognition improves. But he certainly will help space the floor and would play well next to Ware or Reneau at the 5.

[3Ballin]

All jokes aside, i dont know what to think about this team. I think there are spots when we can and should play Malik and Ware at the same time but having 2 bigs on the floor leaves us always chasing our tails on defense and stuck in the mud on offense. I dont know who should play at this point though.

X, Trey, MM, Cupps & Ware is what id run with the most.

Let Malik be the rock of the 2nd unit, bring Gunn and Banks in for Cupps/Trey and MM and then work a break in for the other 2. 

Id leave Walker and Sparks on the bench except for spot minutes. 

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, Inequality said:

Bako should be scoring option number 1.

Based on what?

Todd Leary?

His ranking out of high school?

Isn't a lob to Ware or a Reneau post a better percentage play?

  

 

[Hoosier987]

We dropped 11 in spots KenPom with win.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Well said. Redundant. Sparks and Walker don’t offer anything other than a body. I want them on the team….we will need them when foul trouble hit…but they just aren’t plus players. I know it’s early but we will have to shorten the bench and Mgbako best fit is the 4…at least right now until his game speeds up and recognition improves. But he certainly will help space the floor and would play well next to Ware or Reneau at the 5.

Thank you! Exactly, I want Ware, Reneau and Mgbako to all play. I don't necessarily want them to all play together. That should be the main 4/5 rotation, or at least give it a try. 

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Well, the coaches have put Mgbako in a terrible position to be successful. 

Also, not sure what you're thing with Banks is? Both guys made one shot and were largely uninvolved in any action. 

It's kind of funny you keep making that comparison because Mgbako and Banks are playing the same role (the Kopp role) and both are basically ignored offensively and stuck in the corner. 

It's not the point you think it is. 

Can’t sell a guy on playing the Carmelo role and then turn him into Miller Kopp. 😞

[5fouls]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

The guys that don't really need to play are Sparks and Walker. 

 

Sparks had 4 rebounds in 9 minutes and a pretty reverse layup.  Why are we hating on him?

[5fouls]

4 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

We dropped 11 in spots KenPom with win.

Probably should have been more.  That was as ugly a win as you can have.  

[BGleas]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Sparks had 4 rebounds in 9 minutes and a pretty reverse layup.  Why are we hating on him?

I'm not hating on him. I'm going beyond the stat sheet. Again, IMO we're playing a losing style of basketball. 

It worked when you had TJD and JHS. We don't have them. 

I want our style of play to change. I want more shooters, an open lane, a faster, more modern offensive approach. 

Sparks was fine and those numbers came against a team we had a big size advantage on and still almost lost. 

[BGleas]

This is losing basketball when we get to the real competition. 

 

 

[Steubenhoosier]

Lots of armchair coaches here making decisions on who should/shouldn’t be playing…after 2 games. It’s a new team. These guys have to learn to play with each other. Sparks was hurt so didn’t have the benefit of playing in the exhibition games. 

They have to get better. Sitting on the bench won’t accomplish that. Gonna be growing pains, so patience and realistic expectations are in order here. The sky is not falling 

[BGleas]

To be fair to @5fouls, this is clearly why Mgbako isn't playing more. 

Just horrible effort defensively, and until he cleans this up his playing time is going to be spotty. 

 

 

[Inequality]

I actually like Cupps and Johnson sharing the 1-2 with Galloway as the best 6th man in the big.

Reneau and Ware on the floor together will be a pretty big deal when the grueling B1G conference starts and we need their overall abilities, strength and height at these positions. I think it has potential to be a better version of Trace-Race combo. Not that I want to play half court slow offense. But some games will just be slow and that’s where IU should have a decent advantage.

The 3 spot should by all accounts be Bako. His ability to create and shoot the rock hasn’t been on display little if at all thus far but he is from what I’ve seen very capable. Also a friend on the med staff, JD Headdy, said Bako is the best overall real deal player that he has personally seen come through the program.

Call it armchair coaching if you want to. This is a fan board. It’s what we do best.

 

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Lots of armchair coaches here making decisions on who should/shouldn’t be playing…after 2 games. It’s a new team. These guys have to learn to play with each other. Sparks was hurt so didn’t have the benefit of playing in the exhibition games. 

They have to get better. Sitting on the bench won’t accomplish that. Gonna be growing pains, so patience and realistic expectations are in order here. The sky is not falling 

Again, I'm not saying Sparks isn't good. I haven't said anyone isn't good. 

I think we need to play a different style. The fact that we've taken less 3's than our opponents have made is massive schematic problem for this team. 

It can get you by against the likes of Marian and Army, but won't fly in the Big Ten or against UConn or Kansas. 

It's all about the system and style of play for me. 

[KoB2011]

38 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Reneau has played better than Mgbako so far this season.  Period.  That's not being a strawman.  

How can we really say that? How many minutes has Mgbako gotten in the lineup that’s been beneficial to Reneau?

Most of Reneau’s damage has come with three guards in. 

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Again, I'm not saying Sparks isn't good. I haven't said anyone isn't good. 

I think we need to play a different style. The fact that we've taken less 3's than our opponents have made is massive schematic problem for this team. 

It can get you by against the likes of Marian and Army, but won't fly in the Big Ten or against UConn or Kansas. 

It's all about the system and style of play for me. 

But, wrapped up in all of that, effort still matters.  Sparks plays his butt off and generally has a good feel for the game.  Should he take away minutes from Ware?  No.  IU needs Ware on the floor 35 minutes.  And, if Ware plays 35, then Reneau needs to play heavy minutes at the 4.  Add into the equation the lack of guard depth, and I'm honestly not seeing where playing MM big minutes at the 4 makes sense.  The roster is what it is at this point, and plating MM at the 4 creates different problems that don't currently exist.

.    

[KDB]

Woody after the game: “For the most part, we played pretty good basketball.”

[bluegrassIU]

I agree we need to evaluate or re-evaluate how we are playing.

 

I also strongly agree Mgbako has been lazy on defense and regularly being corrected about positioning on offense. He has not done anything to justify more minutes.

He has to be play harder. Be more prepared. The days of relying on talent are over. 

So until he steps up, it's hard to change much that requires us relying on him right now 

With all that said, it also means we have upside....And Mgbako has as much upside as anybody on our roster.