Artesian_86 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 38 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said: I watched the presser again this morning. He said, "for the most part we played pretty good basketball defensively keeping them to 64 points" It was obvious that he was not happy with the offense at all. I know where you are going with this....I thought the same thing when KDB posted that Coach Woodson thought we played pretty good basketball. He was ONLY talking about defense and the lower point total. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 9 hours ago, Seeking6 said: Ok gang. Had to miss a good chunk of game because of family stuff. Was following online but tell me what happened? Just early growing pains of getting guys together with new pieces and faces? Or just a bad night? I don't know, bro...I checked out of the game thread after reading this... I knew Dakich had a burner account here ...I also knew we'd gone off the rails in that thread... I think @jv1972iu was close to the truth...I don't think Woody wanted to sacrifice the game, but he wasn't worried about the margin of victory. He's still experimenting with his lineups and trying to get kids to play at the level we need for teams like UConn and Kansas. Woody's stated goal from the beginning has been Big 10 championships and National Championships...And last I looked, Army wasn't in the Big 10 From a leadership standpoint, I think Coach Woodson is doing the right things...Whether they work or not remains to be seen... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: I don't know, bro...I checked out of the game thread after reading this... I knew Dakich had a burner account here ...I also knew we'd gone off the rails in that thread... I think @jv1972iu was close to the truth...I don't think Woody wanted to sacrifice the game, but he wasn't worried about the margin of victory. He's still experimenting with his lineups and trying to get kids to play at the level we need for teams like UConn and Kansas. Woody's stated goal from the beginning has been Big 10 championships and National Championships...And last I looked, Army wasn't in the Big 10 From a leadership standpoint, I think Coach Woodson is doing the right things...Whether they work or not remains to be seen... Don't ever compare me to DD, that is the worst thing you can do to a guy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 These are the concerning stats. The discrepancy in shooting volume is inexcusable. 43 to 61!!!!! And getting doubled up on offensive rebounds against a way shorter and less athletic team is 🤮. There is a LOT of work to do before Thursday. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 39 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: He shouldn't have been happy with the defense either. That was not a good team we played. Opposing teams attempting high percentages of 3's is going to be a constant battle all season because of our low post defense and the continued impressive play Ware. We just need to play much, much better perimeter defense and that has to start with the right line up with the right attitude from this new and young team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Don't ever compare me to DD, that is the worst thing you can do to a guy. Why? You said essentially the same thing he did in this tweet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Why? You said essentially the same thing he did in this tweet... Rage bait is all that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I don't know, bro...I checked out of the game thread after reading this... I knew Dakich had a burner account here ...I also knew we'd gone off the rails in that thread... I think @jv1972iu was close to the truth...I don't think Woody wanted to sacrifice the game, but he wasn't worried about the margin of victory. He's still experimenting with his lineups and trying to get kids to play at the level we need for teams like UConn and Kansas. Woody's stated goal from the beginning has been Big 10 championships and National Championships...And last I looked, Army wasn't in the Big 10 From a leadership standpoint, I think Coach Woodson is doing the right things...Whether they work or not remains to be seen... Margin of victory? With all due respect…we nearly lost that game. It was tied with 3 min left. Had we lost to Army, we would’ve been trying to dig ourselves out of a bottomless hole. The worst defeat we took in the KenPom era was back in 2008-2009 to I believe IUPUI who was #214. For comparison sake, Army is at #327 truly an awful team…yes, they are below Chicago State. The 2nd unit is not it. I’m not against playing those players but we cannot play all of them at once. We have zero scoring and individuals who are constantly lost on the court (some who have been in the system for now 2 years). Woodson needs to try and shrink the bench. This all goes back to the off season. We needed an additional guard or two…not more length or raw players who may be able bodied but are not able to score. Edited November 13, 2023 by Hoosier987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 19 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: These are the concerning stats. The discrepancy in shooting volume is inexcusable. 43 to 61!!!!! And getting doubled up on offensive rebounds against a way shorter and less athletic team is 🤮. There is a LOT of work to do before Thursday. I somewhat agree. However, when a team takes the volume of 3 point shots that Army did, there are going to be a lot of those long rebounds that often kick back out to where the shooter was. Not as glaring of a discrepancy as these statistics show. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: I somewhat agree. However, when a team takes the volume of 3 point shots that Army did, there are going to be a lot of those long rebounds that often kick back out to where the shooter was. Not as glaring of a discrepancy as these statistics show. A ton of teams take threes against us. A lot of it is due to over helping and that’s a schematic issue because we haven’t seen a change for 3 years. I’m not sure I understand it when you have a big 7’ shot blocker in Ware waiting behind you. Edited November 13, 2023 by Hoosier987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, Hoosier987 said: Margin of victory? With all due respect…we nearly lost that game. It was tied with 3 min left. Had we lost to Army, we would’ve been trying to dig ourselves out of a bottomless hole. The worst defeat we took in the KenPom era was back in 2008-2009 to I believe IUPUI who was #214. For comparison sake, Army is at #330, truly an awful team. The 2nd unit is not it. I’m not against playing those players but we cannot play all of them at once. We have zero scoring and individuals who are constantly lost on the court (some who have been in the system for now 2 years). Woodson needs to try and shrink the bench. Jesus dude, lighten up. You do realize that CMW is trying to see what guys can do? If he puts the 2nd teamer guys in with the starters, the starters are going to dominate the possessions and not give the staff the ability to evaluate guys on their own merits. There's also something to be said for seeing who is hungry enough to play their hardest, even if they aren't starting. 2nd game. Let's at least get to December before getting all panicky 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: Margin of victory? With all due respect…we nearly lost that game. But we didn't... 3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: Had we lost to Army, we would’ve been trying to dig ourselves out of a bottomless hole. How so? The 81 NC team lost to Texas Pan-American in the preseason...Preseason is to get you ready for conference play... I'll agree we have some concerns to address, but some of you are in full blown panic mode...Kinda like after the first Penn State game last year... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Jesus dude, lighten up. You do realize that CMW is trying to see what guys can do? If he puts the 2nd teamer guys in with the starters, the starters are going to dominate the possessions and not give the staff the ability to evaluate guys on their own merits. There's also something to be said for seeing who is hungry enough to play their hardest, even if they aren't starting. 2nd game. Let's at least get to December before getting all panicky LOL. I’m fine. Sounds like you may need to lighten up. Again, I agree that players need to play, I don’t think the whole 2nd unit needs to play together…which Woodson’s sub patterns have now suggested for 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, IUFLA said: But we didn't... How so? The 81 NC team lost to Texas Pan-American in the preseason...Preseason is to get you ready for conference play... I'll agree we have some concerns to address, but some of you are in full blown panic mode...Kinda like after the first Penn State game last year... This isn’t ‘81 nor is it preseason. This game counts. Losing to Army would’ve been a catastrophic loss and if we found ourselves on the bubble could very well be what keeps us out of the tournament. Luckily, crisis’ adverted for the time being but many questions loom. Edited November 13, 2023 by Hoosier987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: LOL. I’m fine. Sounds like you may need to lighten up. Again, I agree that players need to play, I don’t think the whole 2nd unit needs to play together…which Woodson’s sub patterns have now suggested for 3 years. Whatever, you've been complaining since the game ended, incessantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: This isn’t ‘81 nor is it preseason. This game counts. Losing to Army would’ve been a catastrophic loss and if we found ourselves on the bubble could very well be what keeps us out of the tournament. Luckily, crisis’ adverted for the time being but many questions loom. It's pre-conference...The Big 10 season is what Mike Woodson is worried about... "would have been catastrophic" except, it wasn't... And I agree...Many questions do loom...But I haven't tried to supply an answer for them before the 3rd game of the season...That's Coach Woodson's job... Edited November 13, 2023 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Steubenhoosier said: Whatever, you've been complaining since the game ended, incessantly. Not complaining… Discouraged yet cautiously optimistic because I think it’s a simple change. I’m hoping we see positive changes that are addressed…play a 3 guard lineup and insert Mgbako at the 4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJack Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 I don't think Ware and MR can be on the floor at the same time. Everything is clogged and IU isn't a 3 point shooting team (year after year). Seems to be a liability on defense too. Problem is that they are two of your best players. I would love to see MM play the 4 spot and increase the tempo on offense and defense. Sparks looked okay but again he's strictly a back to the basket guy. Be interesting to see what changes Woody does for the next game. The first two games clearly isn't a successful blueprint. Also, Florida Gulf Coast squeaked by Ave Maria Friday night. YIKES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, JJack said: Also, Florida Gulf Coast squeaked by Ave Maria Friday night. YIKES! Meh. Perfectly understandable. No one understands Latin these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUProfessor Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) The last two years we've been able to justify the offensive system by assuming Woody was just tailoring the game plan to the hand he was dealt (i.e., TJD and Race). I realize you could make the same argument this year (it's hard not to play Reneau and Ware together when they are two of your best players), but by year three you'd like to think Woody would have constructed a roster that would have allowed him to play the offensive style he wants. So the more time goes on, the more you have to conclude that all the talk about implementing a modern, NBA-style offense was just that. Talk. So debating whether Mbgako should play some minutes at the 4 seems moot until the staff shows that it's interested in playing a modern style of basketball. The offensive system may also explain the perplexing struggle we've had to land the type of talent at the 2/3 that you need to win big (JHS aside). Maybe what we're seeing is just how the staff wants to play. And wing recruits aren't buying it. Edited November 13, 2023 by IUProfessor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 What would concern me 1. Effort? 2. Offense at times is too slow and predictable….great if you have playmakers like TJD & JHS 3. Do these guys even like each other ? 4. Really thought Banks & Gunn would be rotation or starting by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 55 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Jesus dude, lighten up. You do realize that CMW is trying to see what guys can do? If he puts the 2nd teamer guys in with the starters, the starters are going to dominate the possessions and not give the staff the ability to evaluate guys on their own merits. There's also something to be said for seeing who is hungry enough to play their hardest, even if they aren't starting. 2nd game. Let's at least get to December before getting all panicky At one point, midway through the 1st half, the entire bench was in and not producing much at all. I told my wife, "I'm sure Coach is keeping them in to see if they can produce a spark or at least try get something going positively." Knight did it often... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Purdue7 said: What would concern me 1. Effort? 2. Offense at times is too slow and predictable….great if you have playmakers like TJD & JHS 3. Do these guys even like each other ? 4. Really thought Banks & Gunn would be rotation or starting by now and this post is coming from a Purdue fan.....🤨, I'm having a hard time both reading this post and taking it seriously...... Edited November 13, 2023 by Artesian_86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDPU95 Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just an observation.. When asked about the stagnant offense. Woody said they need to "trust each other" and stop playing for themselves. There is some selfishness for sure but also a lot of hesitation on offense (perhaps because of lack of trust). Too often multiple, unnecessary fakes before a pass, etc. Watch that play just before the 2:00 mark in the 2nd half. Entry pass draws a double, quick kick out, swing pass, shot fake, pass to Cupps wide open who sticks that 3. They didn't hesitate in that sequence it got the defense completely out of position and lead to a wide open shot. Was that because we had the 3 guards in or because those three (who happen to be guards) trusted each other and didn't hesitate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 12 hours ago, 5fouls said: But, why should he play at Reneau's expense. That's what I am asking about. What has MM shown in these 4 games (exhibitions included) that indicates he should get more floor time than Reneau. We, as fans, need to stop basing our thinking on the number of stars a guy has. Same kind of crap we went through when everyone on the board wanted Perea and Hollowell to come in and take over for Watford and Oladipo, It's mind boggling. I am not basing it on that. I am basing it on the eye test and what others at practice have witnessed and reported, he's our best shooter. Why not slide him over to the four whenever Ware or Reneau are out? This guy is not Perea or Hollowell, that much is obvious even in the little I have witness. I believe what @DC2345 said, he's still in the doghouse which makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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