Army Post Game Thread

[tdhoosier]

46 minutes ago, Hoosier4Life53 said:

I was out of town and couldn’t watch the game live, so I watched the tape last night. Looks like Ware, Reneau and XJ will carry us this year. Still too soon to tell where we’ll be in March, but barely beating FGCU and Army at home is not very encouraging. 

Something that continues to amaze is that every school we play (including low mid-majors) has knock down shooters that kill us. I realize our perimeter defense needs to improve, but you still have to make the shot even if you’re wide open, so it’s not luck…these guys can shoot. 

So, I have to ask…why can’t we find a couple of those guys?  
 

 

 

All high level CBB players can shoot. Even our guys can shoot......if you give them a lot of space. 

It can't be a coincidence that many teams happen to shoot well just against us. 

We let them get comfortable by giving them a lot of space, going under screens, not pressuring the ball, etc. Comfortable shooters become confident. Confident shooters make buckets. 

[Hoosier4Life53]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

All high level CBB players can shoot. Even our guys can shoot......if you give them a lot of space. 

It can't be a coincidence that many teams happen to shoot well just against us. 

We let them get comfortable by giving them a lot of space, going under screens, not pressuring the ball, etc. Comfortable shooters become confident. Confident shooters make buckets. 

https://www.crimsonquarry.com/platform/amp/2023/11/12/23958458/indiana-mens-basketball-and-the-three-point-shot

[kyhoosier29]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

All right - I rarely take the optimistic/positive stance, and to be honest, not feeling it right now, but if I'm reaching... Ware is a legit shot blocker.  He's been pretty solid offensively vs weak teams and you gotta think he can get better and better with his length and diversity.  Cupps has been better than expected this early in the season.  Gotta love Sparks energy and effort.  Reneau is a capable low post scorer that has shown some progress with his range as well.  X is as experienced PG as there is in college bball.  Seems to want to lead.  Mbako is a long, talented player.  Walker gives nice depth with length, defense, and rebounding.  We know based on last year that Galloway can be a serviceable B1G starter.  Gunn can be a bench scorer.  Banks is a long athlete that has shown some shooting ability.  You gotta think the pieces will start clicking better as the season goes on.  There!  I only pointed out positives!

I should have included Ware’s offensive performances so far in my positives. Just want him to be tougher, quicker reacting on the boards and defensive end bc it’s not going to come as easy in conference games. 

[bluegrassIU]

2 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

All right - I rarely take the optimistic/positive stance, and to be honest, not feeling it right now, but if I'm reaching... Ware is a legit shot blocker.  He's been pretty solid offensively vs weak teams and you gotta think he can get better and better with his length and diversity.  Cupps has been better than expected this early in the season.  Gotta love Sparks energy and effort.  Reneau is a capable low post scorer that has shown some progress with his range as well.  X is as experienced PG as there is in college bball.  Seems to want to lead.  Mbako is a long, talented player.  Walker gives nice depth with length, defense, and rebounding.  We know based on last year that Galloway can be a serviceable B1G starter.  Gunn can be a bench scorer.  Banks is a long athlete that has shown some shooting ability.  You gotta think the pieces will start clicking better as the season goes on.  There!  I only pointed out positives!

I know that was hard for you. I am proud of ya.  😁

[bluegrassIU]

4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Agreed.  Time for some positivity.  I absolutely LOVE those candy striped warmups.  And, uhhhh,,,,,,,,,our def.....well on offen,,,,,,,,,,,,geez there has to be something.....just give me a moment to think of.......OH MY GOD WE"RE DOOMED!!!!    AND PURDUE IS GOOD!    WE CAN"T SHOOT!!    I MISS ARCHIE!!!!    THE FOOTBALL TEAM HAS WON MORE GAMES THAN BASKETBALL!!!!   WHERE"S WALDO!  STORES ARE ALREADY PLAYING CHRISTMAS MUSIC!!!!   DID I TAKE MY MEDS?  I DON"T REMEMBER!!!!!! 

Now that's more like it.

[13th&Jackson]

21 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Stonehill 57 Army 44

UConn 107 Stonehill 67

We can be thankful that we don't have GW on the schedule: GW 89 Stonehill 44

 

21 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Heck, forget GW, I'm thankful we don't have Stonehill on our schedule.

Stonehill gave St Joseph’s a scare last night, losing only 100-56. They play Kentucky next. 

[IUFLA]

I think @HoosierFaithful should code in a dirge to play like "The Lark Ascending" or "Adagietto" when this thread is opened 

🙂

Edited November 15, 2023 by IUFLA

[Drroogh]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

I think @HoosierFaithful should code in a dirge to play like "The Lark Ascending" or "Adagietto" when this thread is opened 

🙂

Gloom Despair Agony on Me

[DWB]

Personally, I think Woody should take a page out of the RMK playbook. You don't play hard or smart, ass meets bench, even for starters.

IMO, Leal would be a better choice than Gunn right now. At least he plays smart. Not nearly as athletic, but athletic doesn't always mean more points.

[Parakeet Jones]

1 minute ago, DWB said:

 

IMO, Leal would be a better choice than Gunn right now. At least he plays smart. Not nearly as athletic, but athletic doesn't always mean more points.

I said the same in the game thread the other night.  I'm at the point that I would like to see what that would look like before we play UConn. 

[KDB]

Leal came in as a true freshman and hit three 3's at Wisconsin and played 35 minutes. I don't think it's crazy to assume he could help us at times. I agree that I'd like to see him get some run. At the least, like DWB said, he will play smart and he will give everything he has on both ends.

[5 championships]

Leal needs PT. It helps us play smaller and faster for longer stretches as well. I see no reason why he couldn’t play.

[5 championships]

Play Leal instead of Walker 

[KoB2011]

I wouldn't expect Leal to be a huge difference maker in terms of the stat sheet, but he may be able to just give us solid minutes of mistake free basketball.

If he can give us 5-10 more minutes of a 3 guard lineup, which is scoring at a significantly more efficient clip, then it may be worth a shot. 

[5fouls]

Leal is not going to play.  For whatever reason, Woodson has akeays seemingly viewed him in the same regard as a walk-on.  

If someon gets hurt, Woody is going to pkay 9 instead of 10.  If someone else goes down, he'll play 8.

I'm not choosing sides here, just pointing out how I see the situation.

Edited November 16, 2023 by 5fouls

[KoB2011]

6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Leal is not going to play.  For whatever reason, Woodson has akeays seemingly viewed him in the same regard as a walk-on.  

If someon gets hurt, Woody is going to pkay 9 instead of 10.  If someone else goes down, he'll play 8.

I'm not choosing sides here, just pointing out how I see the situation.

I don't think you're necessarily wrong that Leal isn't going to play, but if things continue how they have the first two games and we aren't trying new approaches what does that say? 

[NotIThatLives]

11 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

 Leal

If he can give us 5-10 more minutes of a 3 guard lineup, which is scoring at a significantly more efficient clip, then it may be worth a shot. 

Even for 2-5 minute burst a half.  Gotta get the engine up and running.  You know he's going to play with max effort.  Be another disruptor like Cupps and even Galloway when he's not asked to play 30+ minutes.  

This team has about 3 urgent needs.  1. Defense 2. Energy in the form of speed(gotta get smaller to get faster). 3. All guys operating in their best suited role(Malik is still one more off season away from being a true 4 so play him at the 5 some)

I'd argue if Galloway and X are getting more than 30 minutes their defensive energy will suffer.  

[DWB]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

I wouldn't expect Leal to be a huge difference maker in terms of the stat sheet, but he may be able to just give us solid minutes of mistake free basketball.

On avg, every turnover we have is about 1 pt for the opposition. And Leal rarely makes a bad pass.

55 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Leal is not going to play. 

Don't disagree at all, just putting out "options" like most of the rest of us do. Woody is as set in his ways, as Archie was. Personally I think the pre-conference is a time to experiment like hell with various line ups, rather than 1st squad and 2nd squad. 

Granted Woody played the best 5 guys for the last 10 minutes of the FGC game, and Army as well, but to me...that's pretty late in the game to "fix it".

[Joe_Hoopsier]

18 minutes ago, DWB said:

Granted Woody played the best 5 guys for the last 10 minutes of the FGC game, and Army as well, but to me...that's pretty late in the game to "fix it".

I've been trying to figure us out just like everyone else. I finally found the answer, once I dusted off my Crimson Glasses. Woody KNOWS he has a line up that clicks so he holds them while allowing everyone else time under pressure to prove themselves out. Real, struggle bus, game time in real world environment, not a controlled practice setting.

Beating our first two opponents by 40, doesn't grow us and doesn't get group 2 real pressure forcing them to grow. This is the only possible answer !!

[go_iu_bb]

15 minutes ago, Joe_Hoopsier said:

I've been trying to figure us out just like everyone else. I finally found the answer, once I dusted off my Crimson Glasses. Woody KNOWS he has a line up that clicks so he holds them while allowing everyone else time under pressure to prove themselves out. Real, struggle bus, game time in real world environment, not a controlled practice setting.

Beating our first two opponents by 40, doesn't grow us and doesn't get group 2 real pressure forcing them to grow. This is the only possible answer !!

I like it! I don't believe it but I like it.

[KoB2011]

52 minutes ago, DWB said:

On avg, every turnover we have is about 1 pt for the opposition. And Leal rarely makes a bad pass.

Yup. He is a 2:1 ATO for his career and he knows all the assignments on both sides of the ball.

I get the limitations he has. I am not one that thinks there is a 40% three point shooter that is waiting to be unleashed. It's early, but it's very clear we are a much better offensive team with three guards on the floor and anything we can do to buy more time with those lineups is good. It's not like Leal can be any worse on defense than what we are putting out there, he may even be a net positive because he does know the assignments which can help everyone. 

[DWB]

57 minutes ago, Joe_Hoopsier said:

Woody KNOWS he has a line up that clicks so he holds them while allowing everyone else time under pressure to prove themselves out. Real, struggle bus, game time in real world environment, not a controlled practice setting.

Beating our first two opponents by 40, doesn't grow us and doesn't get group 2 real pressure forcing them to grow. This is the only possible answer !!

So...in other words, he's coaching bass-ackwards !   (lol)

[Parakeet Jones]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Yup. He is a 2:1 ATO for his career and he knows all the assignments on both sides of the ball.

I get the limitations he has. I am not one that thinks there is a 40% three point shooter that is waiting to be unleashed. It's early, but it's very clear we are a much better offensive team with three guards on the floor and anything we can do to buy more time with those lineups is good. It's not like Leal can be any worse on defense than what we are putting out there, he may even be a net positive because he does know the assignments which can help everyone. 

I agree with all of this, which is why I brought up wanting Leal to get Gunn's minutes in the game thread.  I'll add to it, that an added benefit might be Gunn seeing that his minutes aren't guaranteed and that if he doesn't figure it out there is someone waiting for that spot.  As RMK said, the bench is the greatest motivator.  Let Gunn watch Leal for a game or two and see if that motivates him.  

[KoB2011]

3 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said:

I agree with all of this, which is why I brought up wanting Leal to get Gunn's minutes in the game thread.  I'll add to it, that an added benefit might be Gunn seeing that his minutes aren't guaranteed and that if he doesn't figure it out there is someone waiting for that spot.  As RMK said, the bench is the greatest motivator.  Let Gunn watch Leal for a game or two and see if that motivates him.  

What if Gunn just isn't a good basketball player?

I think there was legitimate concern about our guard depth before the season and through two real games and two exhibitions, nothing has been done on the court to say that the staff was wise to roll with what we had.

If it ends up clear that this team plays better in three guard lineups, and we are limited in our ability to play such a lineup because of a lack of guard depth and we left a scholarship open, that is quite an indictment against the staff IMO. 

[94hoosier]

25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

What if Gunn just isn't a good basketball player?

I think there was legitimate concern about our guard depth before the season and through two real games and two exhibitions, nothing has been done on the court to say that the staff was wise to roll with what we had.

If it ends up clear that this team plays better in three guard lineups, and we are limited in our ability to play such a lineup because of a lack of guard depth and we left a scholarship open, that is quite an indictment against the staff IMO. 

it took Victor O till late january his sophomore year to start turning it on. We need to give banks and Gunn a few more games and minutes to prove themselves. Not saying they will be Victor but they can definitely become rotational players. Time will tell, but 2 games in second year not enough to write them off