NBA Thread

[ADegenerate]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I couldn't care less about any of those stats.  All I care about is win/loss percentage, TO differential, Shooting percentages, defensive shooting percentages  Usually if you score more points than you score you will win the game and I don't need all of these new metrics to tell me why you won.  To me if you take good open looks I don't care if it is a layup, a 10 foot shot, a 15 foot shot or a 3. If you run your offense to get open looks you should hit a great percentage if you are a professional player.  I just see to many teams trying to shoot only 3's or layups and taking bad and contested shots causing your percentage to go down

I completely understand what you’re saying. I was always a huge stat guy but it’s been diluted to a degree. Points per possession is the culmination of all of that though. That’s really all that matters on the offensive side of it not PPG. 

 

I was big on the layup or threes offense years ago, before it was mainstream , and I think now it’s gotten a bit out of hand. The midrange / the occasional long two has value that’s not being exploited right now but it will as the game will always evolve and teams will figure out a way to exploit the things that aren’t being exploited now.

[KoB2011]

31 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I couldn't care less about any of those stats.  All I care about is win/loss percentage, TO differential, Shooting percentages, defensive shooting percentages  Usually if you score more points than you score you will win the game and I don't need all of these new metrics to tell me why you won.  To me if you take good open looks I don't care if it is a layup, a 10 foot shot, a 15 foot shot or a 3. If you run your offense to get open looks you should hit a great percentage if you are a professional player.  I just see to many teams trying to shoot only 3's or layups and taking bad and contested shots causing your percentage to go down

Do you understand scoring more points per possession means you are scoring more? 

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

I completely understand what you’re saying. I was always a huge stat guy but it’s been diluted to a degree. Points per possession is the culmination of all of that though. That’s really all that matters on the offensive side of it not PPG. 

 

I was big on the layup or threes offense years ago, before it was mainstream , and I think now it’s gotten a bit out of hand. The midrange / the occasional long two has value that’s not being exploited right now but it will as the game will always evolve and teams will figure out a way to exploit the things that aren’t being exploited now.

I just have watched a lot of IU games form the 80's and 90's and those teams used the mid range game.  They did shoot the 3's at a good percentage but it was not their main focus. The Cheany teams shot a great percentage on 2's and a lot of them were the 15 foot baseline shots.  They also had Henderson and Anderson who was great at the mid range game.  They averaged over 80 points a game even without relying on 3's.  Like I said I just want the best open shot no matter where it comes from because you are going to hit a better percentage when they are open.  Also especially in the NBA they seem to try to get their shot on their own and try to get space with the dribble it is harder to get those open shots.

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Do you understand scoring more points per possession means you are scoring more? 

Yes but I don't need stats to let me know that.  I just don't need metrics to tell me what I already know by just watching the games.  People are trying to make basketball harder than it needs to be.  All you need to know is if your team scores more than your opponents and that is really the only thing that should matter.

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Do you understand scoring more points per possession means you are scoring more? 

Also if that is the case and according to you the pace is faster today then why is the scoring average down from the mid 80's.  You would think that with the faster pace and shooting more 3's then teams would be scoring more.  You have said that shooting 3's or layups are the efficient shots to shoot but it doe snot lead to more scoring.

[Hoosierhoopster]

37 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

I completely understand what you’re saying. I was always a huge stat guy but it’s been diluted to a degree. Points per possession is the culmination of all of that though. That’s really all that matters on the offensive side of it not PPG. 

 

I was big on the layup or threes offense years ago, before it was mainstream , and I think now it’s gotten a bit out of hand. The midrange / the occasional long two has value that’s not being exploited right now but it will as the game will always evolve and teams will figure out a way to exploit the things that aren’t being exploited now.

This is another one of those good conversations that is going to have reasonable minds disagreeing. 

The efficiency of the 3 vs the long 2 is pretty clear generally, but there are players who score the ball very well from the elbow, etc. that plays a big role in how effective their teams are - for an extreme think the Duncan Bank shot, extremely effective and hard to defend - or guys today like DeRozan (playoffs aside) who can score effectively outside a layup.

There is absolutely a role for the mid-range game, but it does have to take a back seat overall to the arc and at the rim, it’s one component but one that has to be reduced in favor of the others 

[5fouls]

29 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Also if that is the case and according to you the pace is faster today then why is the scoring average down from the mid 80's.  You would think that with the faster pace and shooting more 3's then teams would be scoring more.  You have said that shooting 3's or layups are the efficient shots to shoot but it doe snot lead to more scoring.

What does 'doe snot' have to do with basketball?  

[Hoosierhoopster]

Just now, 5fouls said:

What does 'doe snot' have to do with basketball?  

It’s like stickum in football in the 80’s. I can palm the ball easily with doe snot

[5fouls]

I firmly believe that LeBron is disliked more than he should be because he is so good.  He's done nothing to disrespect the game outside of a misguided publicitly moment as a free agent.  But, everything he does on the court is worthy of respect.  And, before someone brings up whining, Vic does  lot of that as well.

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I firmly believe that LeBron is disliked more than he should be because he is so good.  He's done nothing to disrespect the game outside of a misguided publicitly moment as a free agent.  But, everything he does on the court is worthy of respect.  And, before someone brings up whining, Vic does  lot of that as well.

It comes from the decision announcement and his constant whining after every call that goes against him

[rico]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I firmly believe that LeBron is disliked more than he should be because he is so good.  He's done nothing to disrespect the game outside of a misguided publicitly moment as a free agent.  But, everything he does on the court is worthy of respect.  And, before someone brings up whining, Vic does  lot of that as well.

As a guy that watched a lot of the greats...LeBron is the best I have ever seen.

[KoB2011]

46 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Also if that is the case and according to you the pace is faster today then why is the scoring average down from the mid 80's.  You would think that with the faster pace and shooting more 3's then teams would be scoring more.  You have said that shooting 3's or layups are the efficient shots to shoot but it doe snot lead to more scoring.

The pace isnt faster today than the 80s. Points per possession isolates the pace. 

This was the second best scoring year ever per possession. It is more efficient to play this way.

[FKIM01]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I firmly believe that LeBron is disliked more than he should be because he is so good.  He's done nothing to disrespect the game outside of a misguided publicitly moment as a free agent.  But, everything he does on the court is worthy of respect.  And, before someone brings up whining, Vic does  lot of that as well.

He gets a lot for being very vocal about politics as well.  Sure. some people love his stance, but guess what...when you go public like he did, the law of averages says you'll alienate about half the people who actually care about politics.  Not gonna lie...I liked him less after his rants.  I'd rather not know the politics of sports and entertainment folks, but it seems they are determined to tell me anyway.  I see that as a personal matter that distracts from the game/entertainment.

...and understanding the rules about politics, I'll leave it at that.  Just trying to be factual.  I keep my politics to myself when dealing with clients...simply because I don't want to lose half of them over something that has nothing to do with the client relationship.  Too many high-profile people either don't grasp that or don't care.

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

He gets a lot for being very vocal about politics as well.  Sure. some people love his stance, but guess what...when you go public like he did, the law of averages says you'll alienate about half the people who actually care about politics.  Not gonna lie...I liked him less after his rants.  I'd rather not know the politics of sports and entertainment folks, but it seems they are determined to tell me anyway.  I see that as a personal matter that distracts from the game/entertainment.

...and understanding the rules about politics, I'll leave it at that.  Just trying to be factual.  I keep my politics to myself when dealing with clients...simply because I don't want to lose half of them over something that has nothing to do with the client relationship.  Too many high-profile people either don't grasp that or don't care.

The flip side is very few POC have a platform to talk about politics from their point of view. 

Maybe Lebron does grasp that you would rather prominent POC not speak out but does it anyway. Perhaps it is more important to get his message out than it is to lose a fan. 

The stifling of individualism in college and pro sports by those in power (and some fans) shows how far we still have to go. 

[FKIM01]

17 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

The flip side is very few POC have a platform to talk about politics from their point of view. 

Maybe Lebron does grasp that you would rather prominent POC not speak out but does it anyway. Perhaps it is more important to get his message out than it is to lose a fan. 

The stifling of individualism in college and pro sports by those in power (and some fans) shows how far we still have to go. 

I get the freedom of expression thing and I'm sure LeBron is wealthy enough and has enough fans that he likely doesn't care.  My freedom of expression is that I dislike mixing sports/entertainment with politics.  I don't see that as a non-progressive ideal.  I see it as an apolitical personal preference.  Curt Schilling got fired for the same thing.  Not only did he mix sports and politics, he was foolish enough to do it publicly when his bosses disagreed with his views.

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, FKIM01 said:

I get the freedom of expression thing and I'm sure LeBron is wealthy enough and has enough fans that he likely doesn't care.  My freedom of expression is that I dislike mixing sports/entertainment with politics.  I don't see that as a non-progressive ideal.  I see it as an apolitical personal preference.  Curt Schilling got fired for the same thing.  Not only did he mix sports and politics, he was foolish enough to do it publicly when his bosses disagreed with his views.

I can respect where you are coming from, but Schilling wasnt fired because he got political. Schilling, who I am a fan of as a player, was fired for being a bigot publicly. 

[FKIM01]

10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I can respect where you are coming from, but Schilling wasnt fired because he got political. Schilling, who I am a fan of as a player, was fired for being a bigot publicly. 

Your memory is likely better than mine in that regard. I remember Schilling saying something that got him in trouble and I knew he had a tendency to get political at times.  I'll have to Google and refresh my memory. I've possibly crossed him with someone else.

Edit: appears Schilling was fired for sharing a meme on the North Carolina bathroom law:

http://www.businessinsider.com/curt-schilling-fired-by-espn-2016-4

That appears at least politically-related which was why my memory went there.  Regardless of how you classify it, I disagree with him doing it even though it goes to freedom of expression.

Edited May 29, 2018 by FKIM01

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

It comes from the decision announcement and his constant whining after every call that goes against him

If whining bothers you that much then you can't like Vic either.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Your memory is likely better than mine in that regard. I remember Schilling saying something that got him in trouble and I knew he had a tendency to get political at times.  I'll have to Google and refresh my memory. I've possibly crossed him with someone else.

Edit: appears Schilling was fired for sharing a meme on the North Carolina bathroom law:

http://www.businessinsider.com/curt-schilling-fired-by-espn-2016-4

That appears at least politically-related which was why my memory went there.  Regardless of how you classify it, I disagree with him doing it even though it goes to freedom of expression.

It was about the content and commentary of the meme. It's not that it was political, it is that it was bigoted. He was allowed to say many political things before that and not be fired for it. 

Unfortunately, political views often tumble into dangerous, bigoted waters. 

[ADegenerate]

Gordon came to hoop today. Playing well and confident as hell.

[ADegenerate]

COME ON ROCKETS. Warriors probably a pickem with live betting down 11 at the half. Crazy.

14/1/4 for EJ. 

[KoB2011]

Just now, ADegenerate said:

COME ON ROCKETS. Warriors probably a pickem with live betting down 11 at the half. Crazy.

14/1/4 for EJ. 

Great coast to coast drive to end the half. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Great coast to coast drive to end the half. 

That was a MONSTER drive. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

This third quarter is huge for the Rockets. It's when GS brings it. Here comes the outside splash show, Houston will have to be ready for it. If they come out of the third with about the same lead, I think they'll pull it out. If not, it will probably fall away.

[Hoosierhoopster]

OK I'm sorry at least one of these refs is dirty. Blatant foul after blatant foul ignored. Same ref has 'missed' 3 calls in a row.