Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, TheWatShot said: Like it or not, Illinois is in a much better spot than we are right now. That's really all that matters. Underwood even has a winning record against us now (something we took solace in the first couple years). They were godawful in his first year and even when they were 0-8 in conference they still beat us. Are they fortunate Ayo and Kofi stuck around? Yes, but acting like it's some sort of failure on Underwood's part is silly. He has a top 10 team and we have a team that hasn't been ranked in over 2 years. He's getting results. We're not. I stopped reading when you said silly. In the darkest of IU basketball times. IU vs Illinois is 3-3 over last 6. IU is 7-4 over last 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: I stopped reading when you said silly. In the darkest of IU basketball times. IU vs Illinois is 3-3 over last 6. IU is 7-4 over last 11. One program does things the right way and one doesn’t. I’d never want Underwood/Antigua coaching my team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 32 minutes ago, Bustout said: Agree, but Curbelo and Miller look like solid freshman. He’ll hit the JUCO market. And also, he adjusted his defensive style. I hate Illannoy, but don’t think he’s completely terrible. The way to beat ILL is basically stop Ayo from driving to his right. It’s so much easier said than done, but that’s the key. Force him to pass and let everyone else shoot. And Kofi is simply a good college player because he’s massive. That’s it. He’s average talent IMO. We held him to 10 and still lost in OT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I'm not saying I'd want Underwood coaching here. But I would take their last season and this season over ours. We haven't been ranked in the top 10 for 8 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: We held him to 10 and still lost in OT And had 85 chances to win. They are better than IU, but not a F4 type team like some have hyped. S16 at best, unless they get a 13 seed Cinderella or something to get to E8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, TheWatShot said: I'm not saying I'd want Underwood coaching here. But I would take their last season and this season over ours. We haven't been ranked in the top 10 for 8 years. Maybe it's my brain. Apologies if so. But I feel like IU won another Big 10 championship in 2016 season. Beat UK in the tourney...was ranked in top 10 a few times that year. I feel like your position is of the what have you done for me lately crowd. I get that Illinois has done well in the last 11 months but that isn't a program I'd say is firmly grounded. Shoot I'd take Purdue over Illinois every day of the week. At least Painter has character most of the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Maybe it's my brain. Apologies if so. But I feel like IU won another Big 10 championship in 2016 season. Beat UK in the tourney...was ranked in top 10 a few times that year. I feel like your position is of the what have you done for me lately crowd. I get that Illinois has done well in the last 11 months but that isn't a program I'd say is firmly grounded. Shoot I'd take Purdue over Illinois every day of the week. At least Painter has character most of the time. Actually we did; we got to #10 that year at the start of the Big Ten tournament. I remembered being in and out of the top 25 that season and didn't remember getting that high of a ranking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Final UI 73-66 bit NW cut it to 2 points with 1:30 to go but Ayo hit 2 3's to end the game. That is 2 games in a row that UI had trouble beating the two worst teams in the league with NW and Neb. Edited February 17, 2021 by IU Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Final UI 73-66 bit NE cut it to 2 points with 1:30 to go but Ayo hit 2 3's to end the game So basically Illinois has a kid like Ayo and Northwestern doesn't. Razor thin margin in the perception game of Big 10 hoops. Another single digit win for Illinois. Be careful on how you fill out those brackets this March gang. I can see Illinois leaving early. Fun chats with all. Time to go shovel again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: So basically Illinois has a kid like Ayo and Northwestern doesn't. Razor thin margin in the perception game of Big 10 hoops. Another single digit win for Illinois. Be careful on how you fill out those brackets this March gang. I can see Illinois leaving early. Fun chats with all. Time to go shovel again! Lol... “Underwood isn’t building a good program because Illinois wouldn’t be good if they didn’t have their two best players” is a pretty hilarious take. In this hypothetical world where teams don’t have their best players, you take TJD off of IU and IU is still in a way worse position than Illinois. Will you be saying the same thing about IU next year if TJD comes back for a third year because Archie “failed to develop him?” (Remember, TJD was a higher ranked recruit than both Cockburn and Dosunmu.) Edited February 17, 2021 by FW_Hoosier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Lol... “Underwood isn’t building a good program because Illinois wouldn’t be good if they didn’t have their two best players” is a pretty hilarious take. In this hypothetical world where teams don’t have their best players, you take TJD off of IU and IU is still in a way worse position than Illinois. Will you be saying the same thing about IU next year if TJD comes back for a third year because Archie “failed to develop him?” (Remember, TJD was a higher ranked recruit than both Cockburn and Dosunmu.) I love it when someone points out recruiting rankings in a discussion. Nothing like speculating on speculation. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, rico said: I love it when someone points out recruiting rankings in a discussion. Nothing like speculating on speculation. Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. A big part of this “Underwood sucks” argument is that Cockburn and Dosunmu came back for a second and third year because Underwood didn’t develop them into pros despite the fact that they were highly ranked recruits. I don’t really agree with that argument, but that’s the logic being used... And if it it applies to Underwood, it should apply to Archie as well, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. A big part of this “Underwood sucks” argument is that Cockburn and Dosunmu came back for a second and third year because Underwood didn’t develop them into pros despite the fact that they were highly ranked recruits. I don’t really agree with that argument, but that’s the logic being used... And if it it applies to Underwood, it should apply to Archie as well, no? That argument didn't come from me. I must have missed some posts along the way. My apologies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. A big part of this “Underwood sucks” argument is that Cockburn and Dosunmu came back for a second and third year because Underwood didn’t develop them into pros despite the fact that they were highly ranked recruits. I don’t really agree with that argument, but that’s the logic being used... And if it it applies to Underwood, it should apply to Archie as well, no? The only big part I'll agree with on is that Underwood is benefitting from Covid i.e. players not going pro and that he's nowhere near they level of coach that his record (this year only) suggests. You've mentioned my logic a few times. I put mine out there on the why and what I think of Underwood....please tell me why you think he's some coaching savant? Builder of programs? Also please make you specifically say why he's better than Archie and also...why he had NCAA problems at Stephen F, Kansas St, Oklahoma St,etc...and it appears that's ok with you. Edited February 17, 2021 by Seeking6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: The only big part I'll agree with on is that Underwood is benefitting from Covid i.e. players not going pro and that he's nowhere near they level of coach that his record (this year only) suggests. You've mentioned my logic a few times. I put mine out there on the why and what I think of Underwood....please tell me why you think he's some coaching savant? Builder of programs? Also please make you specifically say why he's better than Archie and also...why he had NCAA problems at Stephen F, Kansas St, Oklahoma St,etc...and it appears that's ok with you. 10 hours ago, Seeking6 said: Just a general comment from this IU fan. For the life of me can we please stop saying Underwood at Illinois is building a good program? Half his fan base wanted him fired last year after losses to Miami and Missouri. The only reason they aren't battling Maryland and Northwestern for records this year is because Ayo was A)not developed enough to still get drafted B) Covid hit and C)Kofi wasn't developed enough or D) Covid hit... Underwood is the recipient of some very lucky times....but please don't anyone think he's developing a program. Antigua went back to his ways. Got Kofi out of nowhere when the fanbase wanted him gone. When Antigua leaves again....Illinois will go back to the 6-14 ways. PS...Underwood. Stephen F, Kansas St, Oklahoma St...and I can say 50/50 right now on when Illinois lands in trouble. The guy isn't changing his spots. Rant over. Sorry. You said here that Illinois is only good either because Underwood didn’t develop Dosunmu and Cockburn, or because he got just got lucky they stayed because of COVID. So which is it in your mind? And you’ve been on the crusade that Underwood sucks and is going to be hurt in recruiting because he couldn’t develop Dosunmu into a pro for more than a year now, lol. Underwood’s done a better job at Illinois than Archie has at IU because he’s recruited better than Archie and won more than Archie. As desperate as IU fans are right now to act like winning actually doesn’t matter at all in college basketball, you really don’t have to look at anything beyond the fact that Illinois is on pace for two top five finishes in the conference in the past two seasons and IU hasn’t been anywhere close to that. Then you have the fact that Underwood had that success after he changed his system when he realized it wasn’t going to cut it in the Big Ten (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/court-report-illinois-is-ncaa-tournament-bound-because-brad-underwood-admitted-defeat-and-changed-his-style/amp/). It’s looking more likely that pigs will fly than Archie will consider doing something like that. And yes, I am clearly on the record that I do not care at all about “cheating” in college basketball recruiting. I’d be thrilled to have a coach who was allowed to do whatever it takes to put a winning team on the floor, so the Stephen F. Austin/Oklahoma State stuff is irrelevant to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: And yes, I am clearly on the record that I do not care at all about “cheating” in college basketball recruiting. I’d be thrilled to have a coach who was allowed to do whatever it takes to put a winning team on the floor, so the Stephen F. Austin/Oklahoma State stuff is irrelevant to me. So cheating is ok with you? Does that extend to every facet of your life? Winning without integrity isn't really winning... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So cheating is ok with you? Does that extend to every facet of your life? Winning without integrity isn't really winning... Now this could get into some really deep analogies. I would say that 99.9% of us drive over the speed limit. I could go further and say 100%. Why do we continue to speed when it is against the law? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: You said here that Illinois is only good either because Underwood didn’t develop Dosunmu and Cockburn, or because he got just got lucky they stayed because of COVID. So which is it in your mind? And you’ve been on the crusade that Underwood sucks and is going to be hurt in recruiting because he couldn’t develop Dosunmu into a pro for more than a year now, lol. Underwood’s done a better job at Illinois than Archie has at IU because he’s recruited better than Archie and won more than Archie. As desperate as IU fans are right now to act like winning actually doesn’t matter at all in college basketball, you really don’t have to look at anything beyond the fact that Illinois is on pace for two top five finishes in the conference in the past two seasons and IU hasn’t been anywhere close to that. Then you have the fact that Underwood had that success after he changed his system when he realized it wasn’t going to cut it in the Big Ten (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/court-report-illinois-is-ncaa-tournament-bound-because-brad-underwood-admitted-defeat-and-changed-his-style/amp/). It’s looking more likely that pigs will fly than Archie will consider doing something like that. And yes, I am clearly on the record that I do not care at all about “cheating” in college basketball recruiting. I’d be thrilled to have a coach who was allowed to do whatever it takes to put a winning team on the floor, so the Stephen F. Austin/Oklahoma State stuff is irrelevant to me. Crusade huh? We'll just agree to disagree on everything you've just typed. Especially the I don't care about cheating part. Interesting for sure. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So cheating is ok with you? Does that extend to every facet of your life? Winning without integrity isn't really winning... This mentality is exactly why IU is where it is right now, and things aren’t going to change until it’s been abandoned by the university and the fanbase. I’m a firm believer in the proposition that cheating in college basketball recruiting is the exact equivalent of speeding on the highway. There are no penalties and everyone does it. College basketball is entertainment, pure and simple — as long as no one’s getting hurt, I could care less about “integrity.” I might feel differently if paying recruits wasn’t a foundational aspect of the entire sport from pretty much its inception, or if there were actual consequences for “breaking the rules.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: This mentality is exactly why IU is where it is right now, and things aren’t going to change until it’s been abandoned by the university and the fanbase. I’m a firm believer in the proposition that cheating in college basketball recruiting is the exact equivalent of speeding on the highway. There are no penalties and everyone does it. College basketball is entertainment, pure and simple — as long as no one’s getting hurt, I could care less about “integrity.” I might feel differently if paying recruits wasn’t a foundational aspect of the entire sport from pretty much its inception, or if there were actual consequences for “breaking the rules.” Very well said. Very well said. I would advise our members to read your post and really digest it. And I mean REALLY digest it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, rico said: Very well said. Very well said. I would advise our members to read your post and really digest it. And I mean REALLY digest it. I digested it and puked it up... It's BS pure and simple...Cheating is not ok... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I digested it and puked it up... It's BS pure and simple...Cheating is not ok... Then why does the NCAA allow it? Turn their heads? Exalt known "cheaters"? But you speed. Knowing full well the consequences are nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I digested it and puked it up... It's BS pure and simple...Cheating is not ok... Tell that to 8 out of the last 12 national champions (at least). Edited February 17, 2021 by FW_Hoosier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, rico said: Then why does the NCAA allow it? Turn their heads? Exalt known "cheaters"? But you speed. Knowing full well the consequences are nothing. So Barry Bond and Mark McGwire are ok in your book? Kentucky basketball historically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: So Barry Bond and Mark McGwire are ok in your book? Kentucky basketball historically? A lot of what Bonds and McGwire did was within MLB's rules at the time. I don't/didn't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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