Lostin76 Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 Watched the game last night a couple hours of taking some edibles, so that could color my comments. The first half was just painful, but I was hopeful that the emerging NW foul trouble would remind our guards that we actually had TJD on our team. Second half start was awesome and I loved Race’s aggressiveness. TJD was also on fire, except for a few bad passes out of traffic. We still made a lot of bad passes as a team too, but our D really stymied them for an extended period in second half. Really thought we were going to pull it out, but am not sure that’s possible when your starting guards don’t do *anything* on offense. I’m not fully ready to embrace an all freshman backcourt, but am also not sure how much worse it could be. Normally, I get VERY worked up at end of games I know we are going to lose, but last night I kind of embraced NW as the team that just wanted it more. They were fired up and feeding off each other. Losing really sucks, but they just simply outplayed and out hustled us. Watching those guys celebrating on our court sucked, but they deserved to win. We did not. I was totally at peace with the game’s outcome and ended up putting on some music to get my mind off the game. Am realizing that it’s going to be a long, frustrating season and that I might need to hit up my delivery guy for some more edibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 @Hoosierhoopster Armaan is shooting .462 from the field over the course of the season. Al - .389 Rob - .378 Jerome - .371 Khristian - .240 Remind me again who can shoot and who can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 47 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Winning without integrity is not winning... We ever go that route and I'll stick to high school games... At least someone gets it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierinbham Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: The only time we looked good yesterday was when we pushed the ball. Galloway looks very good and he, AF, KL can get it out and go. There were several straight possessions that we never even looked to get a shot until under 10 sec on shot clock. My thought is a good shot is a good shot whether first 5 or last 5 of shot clock. Off zone offense was painful to watch This was the most frustrating thing to watch last night. Al and Rob seemed content to run the dribble weave up top with no attempt to attack. Then they panicked in the last 6-7 seconds and forced something up. Galloway and AF are always in attack mode. Lander seems like he has that mentality as well; he just needs confidence and experience. I still love most of our defensive effort. We ran into a team that hit a ridiculous percentage on contested shots, and had one player go Devonte on us at the end. There was nothing anyone was going to do to stop him. (Must have been his birthday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 56 minutes ago, dgambill said: How does cheating destroy a program. UL, Arizona, LSU, Kansas, UK, Duke, UNC, Creighton, Auburn, Syracuse etc etc all are knocking it out of the park...sometimes they get a slap on the wrist but they never have destroyed their programs. Not advocating it just saying it isn’t true. I’d say overall the B1G is typically been void of the “major” cheating scandals and how long has it been since they won a NC? Seems to me there is a correlation there. Beside any moral objections, our admin would not fight the NCAA. Heck, they'd be more inclined to abolish the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 49 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: It seems to me there are two basic paths to success: 1) Have superior players and win with natural ability & talent, 2) Teach, prepare, and coach the talent you DO have to play up to or beyond their abilities. Thus far in the CAM tenure we certainly haven't had an abundance of superior talent and the second option above sure hasn't happened. Maybe the Miller's need great players to win at this level? That said, I sure don't want CAM to think he has to start cheating to save his own hide - that could destroy the program. I'll say this... Archie has been trying to develop a culture at IU...Get old, stay old...Those are his own words... But to get there, you need to rely on the players that ARE old to provide team leadership. He's counting on Rob and Al to lead this team. If he just completely pushes them aside for the youngsters, he'll not only lose games, I'd almost guarantee he'll lose the team. That's not to say he can't start giving guard minutes to some of the younger players. Al and Rob aren't dumb. They know they played poorly not only last night, but in a few of our games. Archie is giving them a chance. If they don't take it, then who do they have to blame but themselves? Part of the culture he's building has to value meritocracy over seniority...But seniority MUST be given its chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'll say this... Archie has been trying to develop a culture at IU...Get old, stay old...Those are his own words... But to get there, you need to rely on the players that ARE old to provide team leadership. He's counting on Rob and Al to lead this team. If he just completely pushes them aside for the youngsters, he'll not only lose games, I'd almost guarantee he'll lose the team. That's not to say he can't start giving guard minutes to some of the younger players. Al and Rob aren't dumb. They know they played poorly not only last night, but in a few of our games. Archie is giving them a chance. If they don't take it, then who do they have to blame but themselves? Part of the culture he's building has to value meritocracy over seniority...But seniority MUST be given its chance... Oh, philosophically I like the approach. Ideally we have a team that doesn't rely on 5 stars but rather intense, focused, fundamentally sound guys with experience. The fly in that ointment seems to be that players don't seem to move toward that goal (i.e. improvement). If that's the coaching or the individuals IDK. Bottom line is our trajectory may be upward, but at this rate we won't compete for anything substantial for an excessive length of time (if ever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'll say this... Archie has been trying to develop a culture at IU...Get old, stay old...Those are his own words... But to get there, you need to rely on the players that ARE old to provide team leadership. He's counting on Rob and Al to lead this team. If he just completely pushes them aside for the youngsters, he'll not only lose games, I'd almost guarantee he'll lose the team. That's not to say he can't start giving guard minutes to some of the younger players. Al and Rob aren't dumb. They know they played poorly not only last night, but in a few of our games. Archie is giving them a chance. If they don't take it, then who do they have to blame but themselves? Part of the culture he's building has to value meritocracy over seniority...But seniority MUST be given its chance... Al and Rob played poorly last night. So, when it became obvious that last night was not their night, why not give Lander, Leal, Geronimo, etc. a chance. I have no problem with the upperclassmen getting the FIRST chance on a given game night. But, when it ain't happening, put in someone else. Using a baseball analogy. Just because Clayton Kershaw might give up 6 runs in the first inning doesn't mean the Dodgers can't win if the bullpen pitches 8 scoreless innings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, 5fouls said: @Hoosierhoopster Armaan is shooting .462 from the field over the course of the season. Al - .389 Rob - .378 Jerome - .371 Khristian - .240 Remind me again who can shoot and who can't. Fouls that’s a meaningless stat and just ignores what I said — AF had a couple strong shooting games, we have now had one B1G game. You think AF will shoot 40 percent on the season like some said after a couple good shooting games? Want to lay money on it? He’s not one of the top three outside shooters on the team, period. Citing a meaningless early stat, and just after his taking 17 shots to score 16 points is pointless. You really want to be reminded who can shoot, look at last season’s shooting percentages. Look at what CAM said when asked — best shooters are Al, Rob (from summer) and Hunter. Read what their teammates said, exactly the same. Al, Rob and Hunter’s shooting percentages are in line with their long- term shooting, Fouls. Lander is not touted as a shooter, it’s about his running the point, and assisting. How did Rob and Al do last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'll say this... Archie has been trying to develop a culture at IU...Get old, stay old...Those are his own words... But to get there, you need to rely on the players that ARE old to provide team leadership. He's counting on Rob and Al to lead this team. If he just completely pushes them aside for the youngsters, he'll not only lose games, I'd almost guarantee he'll lose the team. That's not to say he can't start giving guard minutes to some of the younger players. Al and Rob aren't dumb. They know they played poorly not only last night, but in a few of our games. Archie is giving them a chance. If they don't take it, then who do they have to blame but themselves? Part of the culture he's building has to value meritocracy over seniority...But seniority MUST be given its chance... Thinking similar, but, Lander was very lost on D. Miller also needs to call plays at the right time (I know he calls plays), the scoring droughts need to stop. The one constant the past four years has been scoring droubts, lack of shooting, and poor FT. The current recruiting class needs to get into games, they were recruited to save a program that has not officially made the tournament in four years. Even last years team was a bubble team. Get kids a run at it, upperclassman have a difficult time scoring, and getting the ball to the two kids that can. Al, love the kid and leadership, but he has to run the offense and be that guy. Rob, plays solid D, maybe the best on the team, but he doesn't create offense as a pg and can't manufacture his own shot, or hit open jumpers consistently. Do want to say Franklin is turning into a stud. Lander is a winner, at least lets see what he has. Geromino is our athlete, let the kid make athletic plays. Lander, have him work on his D for 4 days straight, 2 hrs a day and get him game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Fouls that’s a meaningless stat and just ignores what I said — AF had a couple strong shooting games, we have now had one B1G game. You think AF will shoot 40 percent on the season like some said after a couple good shooting games? Want to lay money on it? He’s not one of the top three outside shooters on the team, period. Citing a meaningless early stat, and just after his taking 17 shots to score 16 points is pointless. You really want to be reminded who can shoot, look at last season’s shooting percentages. Look at what CAM said when asked — best shooters are Al, Rob (from summer) and Hunter. Read what their teammates said, exactly the same. Al, Rob and Hunter’s shooting percentages are in line with their long- term shooting, Fouls. Lander is not touted as a shooter, it’s about his running the point, and assisting. How did Rob and Al do last night? To clarify, I did not quote 3FG%. I quoted FG%. And, if those FG% are 'in line' with the expected season performance of our best shooters, we are in for a very long season. I can accept a 37% 3 point shooting percentage. But, as a total FG%, that is sub-par and not conducive to winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosier_exotics Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Fouls that’s a meaningless stat and just ignores what I said — AF had a couple strong shooting games, we have now had one B1G game. You think AF will shoot 40 percent on the season like some said after a couple good shooting games? Want to lay money on it? He’s not one of the top three outside shooters on the team, period. Citing a meaningless early stat, and just after his taking 17 shots to score 16 points is pointless. You really want to be reminded who can shoot, look at last season’s shooting percentages. Look at what CAM said when asked — best shooters are Al, Rob (from summer) and Hunter. Read what their teammates said, exactly the same. Al, Rob and Hunter’s shooting percentages are in line with their long- term shooting, Fouls. Lander is not touted as a shooter, it’s about his running the point, and assisting. How did Rob and Al do last night? I would take that bet... I think you are seeing a significant freshman to sophomore for Franklin. Al and Rob have peaked, they are what they are, and its not good enough. Atleast Franklin has the balls to pull the trigger 17 times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Fouls that’s a meaningless stat and just ignores what I said — AF had a couple strong shooting games, we have now had one B1G game. You think AF will shoot 40 percent on the season like some said after a couple good shooting games? Want to lay money on it? He’s not one of the top three outside shooters on the team, period. Citing a meaningless early stat, and just after his taking 17 shots to score 16 points is pointless. You really want to be reminded who can shoot, look at last season’s shooting percentages. Look at what CAM said when asked — best shooters are Al, Rob (from summer) and Hunter. Read what their teammates said, exactly the same. Al, Rob and Hunter’s shooting percentages are in line with their long- term shooting, Fouls. Lander is not touted as a shooter, it’s about his running the point, and assisting. How did Rob and Al do last night? Franklin is just a true sophomore, no doubt he can keep his shooting up. He is a kid that puts the work in and getting the green light from the coach does wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: To clarify, I did not quote 3FG%. I quoted FG%. And, if those FG% are 'in line' with the expected season performance of our best shooters, we are in for a very long season. I can accept a 37% 3 point shooting percentage. But, as a total FG%, that is sub-par and not conducive to winning. Then you also ignored my entire point, we need our actual outside shooters shooting with sets run for them or we will have trouble scoring in B1G play, as in exactly what happened last night. And again, why did TJD, who shot 9-12 and is clearly the best player in the floor, shoot only 12 while AF shot 17, while repeatedly missing (and his game percentage increased when he hit some shots in the second half). Our offense will not be effective if run like last night, that’s the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said: I would take that bet... I think you are seeing a significant freshman to sophomore for Franklin. Al and Rob have peaked, they are what they are, and its not good enough. Atleast Franklin has the balls to pull the trigger 17 times! Circle back with me at year end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted December 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 32 minutes ago, 5fouls said: @Hoosierhoopster Armaan is shooting .462 from the field over the course of the season. Al - .389 Rob - .378 Jerome - .371 Khristian - .240 Remind me again who can shoot and who can't. Yeah, not following @Hoosierhoopster here. AF is shooting 46%, over 40% from three. Has shown a solid mid range game as well. Beyond TJD, wh ese would you run anything for? Maybe he isn't fully buying into his improvement. But players and coaches have reapedly said this is the Armaan they see in practice, and it is now translating to the game. I think what we are seeing is real and not just a few games hot streak. He looks to be the most talented guy we have after TJD.....until we see how Lander develops (obviously Kristian is big time talented). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Franklin is just a true sophomore, no doubt he can keep his shooting up. He is a kid that puts the work in and getting the green light from the coach does wonders. No doubt? If you read my post you’ll get that I really like the kid and his game, but he is not one of the top deep shooters and Sorry, no way should he be taking 5 more shots than TJD while missing most of them. He’s good, he can score and absolutely is a key to our offense as well as our D, but he is not the focus guy for outside shooting. Our offense last night was bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted December 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 Last night... Rob: 1 for 5. 20% Al: 0 for 4. 0% Jerome: 1 for 4. 25% Armaan: 7 for 17. 41% So tell me, who is the perimeter guy besides Armaan you would have run anything for last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosier_exotics Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: No doubt? If you read my post you’ll get that I really like the kid and his game, but he is not one of the top deep shooters and Sorry, no way should he be taking 5 more shots than TJD while missing most of them. He’s good, he can score and absolutely is a key to our offense as well as our D, but he is not the focus guy for outside shooting. Our offense last night was bad. Totally disagree... we don't have a "focus guy" for outside shooting. If it were Rob and Al, we wouldn't have sucked from deep for the last few years. Either lead or gtf out the road! I am 100% ok with letting a guy who has obviously worked hard, come in and take over that spot. I don't care what CAM or anyone says about summer percentages. There is a big difference between a practice shooter and a game shooter, and right now Franklin is looking like a guy who isn't afraid to take the game shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 Just now, bluegrassIU said: Yeah, not following @Hoosierhoopster here. AF is shooting 46%, over 40% from three. Has shown a solid mid range game as well. Beyond TJD, wh ese would you run anything for? Maybe he isn't fully buying into his improvement. But players and coaches have reapedly said this is the Armaan they see in practice, and it is now translating to the game. I think what we are seeing is real and not just a few games hot streak. He looks to be the most talented guy we have after TJD.....until we see how Lander develops (obviously Kristian is big time talented). Not following? Seriously? What is not to follow? In case you didn’t bother to actually read my post, we’re talking about shooting. AF shot 17 times to hit 16 shots. No one outside of some here thinks he is one of the best shooters on the team. No one. He’s an excellent player, he is and should be a major part of the O, but he is not an excellent outside shooter, unless he’s suddenly turned into one, and we didn’t see that last night. I said before the game now we’ll see how AF shoots when scouted coming into B1G play. AF started the season shooting poorly. Then he had a couple really, really good shooting games. Now you take a small sample size and think that reflects his shooting ability? He absolutely can and should score, but as CAM and everyone else on the team asked had said, the best shooters are Al, Hunter and Rob. And we were also talking about why TJD only took 12 shots, while shooting 9-12, and AF 17, and how poorly Rob and Al did assisting and shooting while Lander again played 3 minutes. Yes, he isn’t ready defensively to play at CAM’s standards, but what exactly did Rob and Al do offensively last night, and could Lander, given the opportunity, have helped? I think he could have, and minimally should be getting playing time in this kind of game to bring him along for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 One of my concerns is FT shooting. In particular that so far this season IU is shooting much worse at Assembly Hall than away from it. Assembly Hall: 0.455, 0.581, 0.625 Away: 0.750, 0.690, 0.800, 0.750, 0.550 Overall FT - Home = 0.551, Away = 0.712 All 3 of their games in Assembly Hall are in the 4 worst FT shooting games this year. That's where they practice trey they can't hit them during games. They're straight on shots from the same distance. With no fans behind the baskets to create distractions the rate should be close to the same or maybe slightly higher at home but it's not close and it's reversed from that. We're only 8 games into the season with only 3 of those at home which are both small sample sizes, so it may just be that and they'll adjust themselves to where they are both close over the course of the season. The early trends are disturbing, however, and could indicate that the players have a hard time getting mentally into games at home. Or the setting could be a red herring and it could be that they were expected to win those 3 home games easily (IU was given 74% chance of beating NW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said: Last night... Rob: 1 for 5. 20% Al: 0 for 4. 0% Jerome: 1 for 4. 25% Armaan: 7 for 17. 41% So tell me, who is the perimeter guy besides Armaan you would have run anything for last night? Those are empty stats. AF shot 2-6 from three, Hunter - who averages around 40 percent and who CAM recognizes along with Al and Rob ad the actual best shooters, only shot 4 shots. You turning into Fouls with limited stats? You think CAM and the rest of the team don’t know what they’re taking about when they name the best shooters? I could keep going but it’s now apparent some just want to argue and either ignore what I’m actually saying, what the coach has himself said, and how obviously poorly we ran our offense last night. If that’s the O you want strap in for a long, disappointing season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Those are empty stats. Those stats had a lot to do with which team won and which team lost the game yesterday. Take Armaan out and the other three were 2-13. Make that 5-13 with at least one of them being a 3, and we win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefftheref Posted December 24, 2020 Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: I understand. I was going to try and rebut everything I read in this thread that disappointed me or pissed me off, but, it's Christmas Eve and I don't feel like being a wedge in a forum I like, and antagonistic toward people I like. Merry Christmas too you too, @jefftheref... From one old heart to another... And Merry Christmas to all... I hope this holiday season is a happy one for everyone on this forum... But, I must say, if I was Santa, some of you would be getting coal in your candy-striped stockings 🎅⛄ Being the eternal optimist that I am, from coal, comes diamonds! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted December 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Not following? Seriously? What is not to follow? In case you didn’t bother to actually read my post, we’re talking about shooting. AF shot 17 times to hit 16 shots. No one outside of some here thinks he is one of the best shooters on the team. No one. He’s an excellent player, he is and should be a major part of the O, but he is not an excellent outside shooter, unless he’s suddenly turned into one, and we didn’t see that last night. I said before the game now we’ll see how AF shoots when scouted coming into B1G play. AF started the season shooting poorly. Then he had a couple really, really good shooting games. Now you take a small sample size and think that reflects his shooting ability? He absolutely can and should score, but as CAM and everyone else on the team asked had said, the best shooters are Al, Hunter and Rob. And we were also talking about why TJD only took 12 shots, while shooting 9-12, and AF 17, and how poorly Rob and Al did assisting and shooting while Lander again played 3 minutes. Yes, he isn’t ready defensively to play at CAM’s standards, but what exactly did Rob and Al do offensively last night, and could Lander, given the opportunity, have helped? I think he could have, and minimally should be getting playing time in this kind of game to bring him along for the season. Not fully disagreeing on Lander. He got abused defensively, but he clearly brings things to the floor that our other guys don't. Right now, today.....I want Armaan shooting a 3 abve anybody n this team. If he is just ht, the ride it until he cools off. If he is that much improved....keep doing it. He was 2 for 5 on threes last night if you take ut a late jacked three where we were down and had to start jacking and hoping. Those are never high % shots. But in the meat of the game he was 40% again, including a huge one from the top of the key that helped get us back in the game. You seem to believe is is not a very good shooter. That maybe water finds its level? Maybe, bur you ride the hot guy, especially when evety other perimeter player was shooting 25% on worse yesterday. 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpeg.083b5557e9ef4ec91a2270d07359ac34.jpeg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.