Northwestern post game...

[rico]

6 minutes ago, gnet550 said:

Lander looked good offensively...he got ate up on a couple of possessions defensively. One against their big and another against a guard. Have to remember he is 17 playing against guys that are 22

Yeah, and so was Isiah Thomas...

[Zuckerkorn]

It seems to me there are two basic paths to success: 1) Have superior players and win with natural ability & talent, 2) Teach, prepare, and coach the talent you DO have to play up to or beyond their abilities.  Thus far in the CAM tenure we certainly haven't had an abundance of superior talent and the second option above sure hasn't happened.  Maybe the Miller's need great players to win at this level?  That said, I sure don't want CAM to think he has to start cheating to save his own hide - that could destroy the program.

[DC2345]

32 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If Miller handpicked all of the guards except Al, how is it not his fault that our guards are not ready to play.

One other thing, fire the &^%$%& strength coach.  Every year we get this parade of GQ magazine crap where the guys show off their physiques.  And every year we have people who have trouble finishing at the rim, powering through traffic, and hitting shots.  Seems to me that the strength program is an utter waste every year.  I think it Jack's up our shooting and it has not shown to help us with strength related items in the paint.  So other than maybe helping the guys with the ladies, what good is that program.

Listen, Dolson needs to talk to Miller now and find out what exactly he thinks he needs to win.  If Miller thinks the University is holding him back, I as the AD would want to know exactly how.  Then I would go out of my way to clear that problem for him so he or the next guy does not have that issue.  The compliance department screwing you over?  Done, I reassign some people.  You want to get into the gray area?  With the new rules about player likeness coming, done.  But you better start winning my man.  The main difference between you and your peers making the kind of money you make is that you have performed in the top half of the conference exactly 1 time and that was all with guys you did not recruit.

I want Miller to figure it out because I think having to start over every 5 years sucks.  However, I am also not of the mind that you should have to wait 5 or 6 years to put something on the court that is anything close to a decent program.  Tom Allen has IU football in a major bowl game and ranked in the Top 15 after 5 years.  He is an example of trending up and he works for the same school.  I just want to know why our historicall bad football program is able to overcome all the supposed hurdles of working for IU when our historicall Top 10 basketball program cannot seem to get above even winning 60% of its games in what is becoming a normal year.

Lifting doesn’t mess up shooting. That’s a myth unless you lose range of motion which these guys haven’t. Michael Jordan lifted on game days as do many others. Finishing isn’t on the strength coach either. That’s a skill that has to be worked on in practice and developed by the coaches. 

[IUFLA]

53 minutes ago, jefftheref said:

I would say yes they are. One thing for sure they are better than us. I quit watching at halftime and spent some time with the wife. My old heart can't take it anymore. I have a feeling that it is going to be another very long year. 
Have a Merry Christmas, my friend. 

I understand. I was going to try and rebut everything I read in this thread that disappointed me or pissed me off, but, it's Christmas Eve and I don't feel like being a wedge in a forum I like, and antagonistic toward people I like.

Merry Christmas too you too, @jefftheref... From one old heart to another...

And Merry Christmas to all... I hope this holiday season is a happy one for everyone on this forum...

But, I must say, if I was Santa, some of you would be getting coal in your candy-striped stockings 🎅⛄

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

It seems to me there are two basic paths to success: 1) Have superior players and win with natural ability & talent, 2) Teach, prepare, and coach the talent you DO have to play up to or beyond their abilities.  Thus far in the CAM tenure we certainly haven't had an abundance of superior talent and the second option above sure hasn't happened.  Maybe the Miller's need great players to win at this level?  That said, I sure don't want CAM to think he has to start cheating to save his own hide - that could destroy the program.

How does cheating destroy a program. UL, Arizona, LSU, Kansas, UK, Duke, UNC, Creighton, Auburn, Syracuse etc etc all are knocking it out of the park...sometimes they get a slap on the wrist but they never have destroyed their programs. Not advocating it just saying it isn’t true. I’d say overall the B1G is typically been void of the “major” cheating scandals and how long has it been since they won a NC? Seems to me there is a correlation there.

[H00sier]

Al, as much as I love him, is a net negative. I’m telling y’all, I get scared when he has the ball. 

And rob brings the ball over half court with 1-2 seconds to spare like 90% of the time. 

Id rather Franklin, Galloway, and Lander get the lions share of guard minutes. At least until Rob snaps out of his slump, he won’t even look for his shot.

[dgambill]

5 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Lifting doesn’t mess up shooting. That’s a myth unless you lose range of motion which these guys haven’t. Michael Jordan lifted on game days as do many others. Finishing isn’t on the strength coach either. That’s a skill that has to be worked on in practice and developed by the coaches. 

Agreed...superior athletes and skilled ones are the ones that can finish in traffic etc...we have neither of those on this team. We have a very average recruits and are expecting superior results...it ain’t happening. That is the exception and not the rule. You want a kid that can finish you need more Romeo/Trayce level recruits.

[H00sier]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

How does cheating destroy a program. UL, Arizona, LSU, Kansas, UK, Duke, UNC, Creighton, Auburn, Syracuse etc etc all are knocking it out of the park...sometimes they get a slap on the wrist but they never have destroyed their programs. Not advocating it just saying it isn’t true. I’d say overall the B1G is typically been void of the “major” cheating scandals and how long has it been since they won a NC? Seems to me there is a correlation there.

We need to play in the gray as much as possible, I’d rather lose then cheat.

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

How does cheating destroy a program. UL, Arizona, LSU, Kansas, UK, Duke, UNC, Creighton, Auburn, Syracuse etc etc all are knocking it out of the park...sometimes they get a slap on the wrist but they never have destroyed their programs. Not advocating it just saying it isn’t true. I’d say overall the B1G is typically been void of the “major” cheating scandals and how long has it been since they won a NC? Seems to me there is a correlation there.

Winning without integrity is not winning...

We ever go that route and I'll stick to high school games...

[BobSaccamanno]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I understand. I was going to try and rebut everything I read in this thread that disappointed me or pissed me off, but, it's Christmas Eve and I don't feel like being a wedge in a forum I like, and antagonistic toward people I like.

Merry Christmas too you too, @jefftheref... From one old heart to another...

And Merry Christmas to all... I hope this holiday season is a happy one for everyone on this forum...

But, I must say, if I was Santa, some of you would be getting coal in your candy-striped stockings 🎅⛄

You’re a class act.  Merry Christmas. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, H00sier said:

We need to play in the gray as much as possible, I’d rather lose then cheat.

We just need to land more high end talent...plain and simple. They don’t all have to be 5*...you need those too but you need guys that might be lower rated that have high upsides or guys that get bad ratings too...so it doesn’t matter...you just need to find talent. We were all jacked to get a kid out of Lafayette but what we fail to realize is he is a very average athlete at best and slightly undersized in today’s B1G level...and we are thrilled?? We get a kid out of Georgia in the what 200s starting for us?? How is that talented enough to be a threat in the B1G?

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Winning without integrity is not winning...

We ever go that route and I'll stick to high school games...

Just saying his statement wasn’t based in fact. Not that cheating is how we should win. Two different things.

[IUCrazy2]

12 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Lifting doesn’t mess up shooting. That’s a myth unless you lose range of motion which these guys haven’t. Michael Jordan lifted on game days as do many others. Finishing isn’t on the strength coach either. That’s a skill that has to be worked on in practice and developed by the coaches. 

Frankly, I would prefer reducing the lifting time and replacing it with shooting time and practicing finishing then.  I don't see another program in the country that brags about their strength program like we do.  You would think we are fielding a body building team....

[DWB]

I needed to take my own "time out" before posting after the fiasco last night. I've spent the last 30 minutes reading all of your posts.

I'm certainly not qualified to be a coach. Most of us on here aren't either. 

But WE ALL see some very obvious changes that need to be made in the play, the roster, the allocation of minutes. And that is what frustrates the hell out of me. If we all see it, why doesn't Arch see it? He made a comment in passing, that "maybe we need to play a few more players". MAYBE???

If we're gonna play this bad, I'll gladly take the resulting losses to play inexperience freshman that give a damn, hustle (see Trey Galloway's picture), and understand how to move the ball and create for team mates.

After watching some of the sideline camera shots during time outs and substitutions, its apparent not everybody on the team has "bought in".

Merry Christmas to all of you. Stay safe, and enjoy your families!

[Euroclydon]

Rob is content to be an afterthought. I've defended him in the past. No more. He seems fine to sit on the bench. He seems fine floating around the floor as a non-threat. He plays hard on D more often than not. But otherwise he's ok just being on the team. Where is the heart? Where's the competitiveness? Where's the drive?

[KoB2011]

I didn't watch, not sure if I will or not but I have it recorded. 

My thoughts are it is one game and it doesn't change my feelings that we are better this year than last. We all know our backcourt isn't where it needs to be; Rob has had his career derailed by injuries and Al is kinda what he is. All of our other guards are freshman and sophomores.

I still think we win 10-12 conference games and end up around a 7 seed. That's progress. 

[DWB]

Just now, KoB2011 said:

I didn't watch, not sure if I will or not but I have it recorded. 

My thoughts are it is one game and it doesn't change my feelings that we are better this year than last. We all know our backcourt isn't where it needs to be; Rob has had his career derailed by injuries and Al is kinda what he is. All of our other guards are freshman and sophomores.

I still think we win 10-12 conference games and end up around a 7 seed. That's progress. 

Before last night, I was right there with you. Not anymore. And it's not just because we lost the game. Lots of intangibles I won't go into here.

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Just saying his statement wasn’t based in fact. Not that cheating is how we should win. Two different things.

My comment was toward what you pointed out not toward your overall statement.

[dgambill]

Maybe IU can just drop down to the MVC or something...then we can all be happy until we lose our conference tournament and get passed over on selection Sunday...but happy the other 364 days of the year lol.

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

My comment was toward what you pointed out not toward your overall statement.

Gotcha! I feel the same way. Whatever we got to do within the rules or in that grey area without breaking the intent of the rules I’m for it if we land talent...because those that step all over the rules aren’t going away and we are falling behind. We need more talent...not sure the answer but we got to get better players. Looking at our starting backcourt...an undersized pg in the 150 range and a shooting guard in the 250s...more often then not you roll the dice on that level of player and unless you have a great developmental coach you are going to struggle to win in the B1G. It’s one thing if those kids are just lights out shooters but lack athleticism or something but kids that are just avg at everything...more likely means you get avg players. We aren’t winning with that. I have hope because Lander is elite talented and Galloway was way under rated because of his injuries and Geronimo has a high upside. They have a lot of tools if we can develop them but if we live in that 150 range too much...we just aren’t going to win a lot.

[dgambill]

Good news is we have a quick turnaround til our next game. A chance at redemption...bad news we play a talented Illinois team. Must be really bad news because it even appears we are too scared to make a pregame thread for it lol!!! 

[Hoosierhoopster]

12 hours ago, BGleas said:

Our veteran starting guards were a combined 1-for-9. 

That's it. That's the post. 

Our starting guards came up short offensively for sure, but that wasn’t all, wasn’t just it. 
 

Said this earlier, AF is good, starter good, and especially defensively, but he should not be taking 17 shots (to score 16 points), or 6 three pointers, both by far more than anyone else, including TJD - who shot 9-12.

Everyone got hyped because AF had a couple very good shooting games, but he has not been and is not one of the best outside shooters. I said it then and caught flack. I like AF a lot, he has made a clear frosh to soph jump - but why is he taking 17 shots? He’s no ball hog, this is not directed at him, this is CAM running sets for him to shoot. Come on already.

It’s not that we don’t have any shooting, it’s largely how our offense is currently being run. It is early, I don’t mean to overreact, but I’ve been saying since the start of the year that when we hit B1G play we will struggle to score unless we are running sets for the actual shooters on the team, not relying on limiting TO’s to create spacing, not over-emphasizing the offense around guys who aren’t strong shooters. I’m not advocating a return to Crean-style overall but for crying out loud we were one of the top offensive teams repeatedly under a Crean, we had sets run for outside shooting by guys who are strong shooters. 
 

There’s also a love of certain players here, Galloway in particular, that causes people to ignore mistakes and issues and see only the positives. Galloway, to me, clearly is a real building block player, he usually gets to where he needs to be on the floor and excels at moving the ball, as an off-ball guard, on target. However, anyone who just didn’t see his 4 - and really it was more - turnovers and several defensive mistakes that led to open looks and baskets had blinders on because they like Galloway. I like him to - this is not about whether he helps the team. But in a game when he repeatedly turns the ball over and our starting guards are NOT scoring or really even getting guys open looks, why is Lander — again — limited to 3 minutes, and Hunter to his usual 16 and only 4 shots? Both players have their weaknesses to improve upon, but again we lose while limiting them, again we as a team ignore a lack of scoring from starting guards and defensive mistakes from others.

The simple Lander isn’t ready yet idea does not work for me. He is immensely talented, he moves the ball at a high level, but he’s being kept off the floor, as is I think very clear now, because his D is not at the level CAM demands. In the abstract that’s fine, but in context we had defensive mistakes by the guys playing, AF was taking by far the most shots, and our starting guards dominated the minutes while not scoring OR assisting at a high level.
It’s time to start integrating Lander and Hunter more — and time to get Galloway more scoring looks. It was nice to see him nail those 2 threes. His shot needs work but his movement to the right wing was excellent, and he nailed those shots under pressure. He’s not going to be a strong outside shooter, but he could be a stronger contributor to the scoring with more inside looks and a couple 3’s added to keep the D honest.

Ending on another positive note, said it earlier but really liked Race’s second-half scoring aggressiveness. He looked really good inside.

[NCHoosier32]

22 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I didn't watch, not sure if I will or not but I have it recorded. 

My thoughts are it is one game and it doesn't change my feelings that we are better this year than last. We all know our backcourt isn't where it needs to be; Rob has had his career derailed by injuries and Al is kinda what he is. All of our other guards are freshman and sophomores.

I still think we win 10-12 conference games and end up around a 7 seed. That's progress. 

agreed for sure!  if we win 10-12 conference games and end up a 7 seed, it will be a very good year.  id be shocked though.  

[IU Scott]

11 hours ago, Let said:

It's going to be a long season!

I can't stand watching Al play, more turnovers than points.

They have no concept of how to feed the post, TJD plays small posting, and he could work harder posting! I have never seen a bunch of players run around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off and accomplish absolutely nothing. They NEVER look inside, always to the side, as they head for another damn ball screen.

It just.makes me tired!

One.more thing, if you can't shoot free throws better than IU you should quit! How can he continue to recruit payers  who CAN'T SHOOT????

 

 

 

 

 

I guess all of the Rutgers team should quit since they shoot 57% as a team.

[Billingsley99]

The only time we looked good yesterday was when we pushed the ball. Galloway looks very good and he, AF, KL can get it out and go. There were several straight possessions that we never even looked to get a shot until under 10 sec on shot clock. My thought is a good shot is a good shot whether first 5 or last 5 of shot clock. Off zone offense was painful to watch