Northwestern post game...

[bluegrassIU]

6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Those are empty stats. AF shot 2-6 from three, Hunter - who averages around 40 percent and who CAM recognizes along with Al and Rob ad the actual best shooters, only shot 4 shots. You turning into Fouls with limited stats? You think CAM and the rest of the team don’t know what they’re taking about when they name the best shooters? 
I could keep going but it’s now apparent some just want to argue and either ignore what I’m actually saying, what the coach has himself said, and how obviously poorly we ran our offense last night. If that’s the O you want strap in for a long, disappointing season 

Hey, not everybody that disagrees with you is stupid or blind. Just saying.

[FW_Hoosier]

I’ve been too busy to watch a good chunk of the season... Missed all of the Maui games and all but the last minute of the FSU game.

This team just isn’t really worth arguing about or arranging your schedule around.  It‘s the definition of mediocre, and Archie has pretty much sucked all of the energy and excitement out of the program over the last four years.

But the one positive about being apathetic is that it’s a little easier to look at things rationally.  This loss wasn’t the end of the season.  This team is just talented enough and plays decent enough defense to be pretty much exactly what everyone expected before the season started — a .500, middle of the pack Big Ten team.  They should still be in the mix for a tournament bid at the end of the year, which is really all you can hope for at this point.

[DC2345]

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Frankly, I would prefer reducing the lifting time and replacing it with shooting time and practicing finishing then.  I don't see another program in the country that brags about their strength program like we do.  You would think we are fielding a body building team....

They’re only allowed so much time in the gym based on NCAA rules and I can guarantee they’re in there as much as is allowed. The question is what the coaches focus on during that practice time is another topic. It has nothing to do with the strength program. Who cares if they show it off on social media and you don’t know how much time they’re in the weight room but it’s probably not as much as you think. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Those stats had a lot to do with which team won and which team lost the game yesterday.  Take Armaan out and the other three were 2-13.  Make that 5-13 with at least one of them being a 3, and we win.

No, disagree. This is my last post on this because most of what I say just keeps getting ignored or misstated. 
 

Stats? How about having TJD, at 9-12, shoot more of the shots taken in AF’s 17 and 2-6 from deep? Or, if Hunter was getting sets, as a roughly 37-40 percent outside shooter, not to mention a guy we’ve already seen this year with a smooth 12 foot hook shot, so that he took more than the clearly limited 4 shots / on which NO conclusion can be drawn, or if instead of the clearly limited assist numbers by the starting guards Lander (or even Galloway) were given more opportunity to assist / set up shots, would we have scored more than the limited and generally bad outside and overall scoring we saw? Think our offense looked good last night?

I’ve always been one of the biggest glass half full guys here. I am not criticizing any player, and love both AF’s development and Galloway’s developing game, but the offensive structure completely failed last night and imo will continue to fail unless adjusted in B1G play. We need more scoring, better outside shooting decisions, and better point guard play 

[Hoosierhoopster]

5 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Hey, not everybody that disagrees with you is stupid or blind. Just saying.

No one called you or anyone else stupid, read my post again before saying you can’t see my point

[bluegrassIU]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

No one called you or anyone else stupid, read my post again before saying you can’t see my point

Ok, I disagree with your conclusion. Is that better?

[rico]

Somebody pass me some egg nog...

[bluegrassIU]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Somebody pass me some egg nog...

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, bluegrassIU said:

Ok, I disagree with your conclusion. Is that better?

You didn’t address either my actual point or conclusion, instead you just said you can’t see my point. Not interested in continuing it’s getting salty 

[Fiveoutofsix]

31 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

No doubt? If you read my post you’ll get that I really like the kid and his game, but he is not one of the top deep shooters and Sorry, no way should he be taking 5 more shots than TJD while missing most of them. He’s good, he can score and absolutely is a key to our offense as well as our D, but he is not the focus guy for outside shooting. Our offense last night was bad.

Yeah, I was piggy backing on it.  As if we were in a convo and I said...no doubt he is a stud.  

We need him to spread the floor and the ball should go inside out more.  Im happy with him taking 5 shots, its getting better and better.  With TJD most likely to test NBA waters, Franklin needs to be the guy for the next three years.  No better time to develop that mentality than this season.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Yeah, I was piggy backing on it.  As if we were in a convo and I said...no doubt he is a stud.  

We need him to spread the floor and the ball should go inside out more.  Im happy with him taking 5 shots, its getting better and better.  With TJD most likely to test NBA waters, Franklin needs to be the guy for the next three years.  No better time to develop that mentality than this season.

Got it, and agree more inside - out. 

[bluegrassIU]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

You didn’t address either my actual point or conclusion, instead you just said you can’t see my point. Not interested in continuing it’s getting salty 

I did address it.

I TJD only had 12 shots because as soon as he touched the ball they ran 3 guys at him.

That gave us 2 options....feed Race in the post and let him go one on one (which worked), or have the perimeter guys make them pay for leaving them.

The debate then becomes, who can make them pay?

Right now, I would trust Armaan above the others. Even shooting 3's.

Thats my opinion. Others may say spot up Jerome, Rob etc.

Thats fine.

But right now, Armaan is shooting well. So I go there.

Not salty at all. 🍻

[bluegrassIU]

The odd part...

We actually shot 39% from 3 yesterday as a team. 

Tell me we are home, hit 39% from 3 against Northwestern and LOSE? I would have said no way.

[hoosier_exotics]

5 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I did address it.

I TJD only had 12 shots because as soon as he touched the ball they ran 3 guys at him.

That gave us 2 options....feed Race in the post and let him go one on one (which worked), or have the perimeter guys make them pay for leaving them.

The debate then becomes, who can make them pay?

Right now, I would trust Armaan above the others. Even shooting 3's.

Thats my opinion. Others may say spot up Jerome, Rob etc.

Thats fine.

But right now, Armaan is shooting well. So I go there.

Not salty at all. 🍻

Archie trusts him as well, evident by the fact he was allowed to take 17 shots

[Hoosierhoopster]

Just now, bluegrassIU said:

I did address it.

I TJD only had 12 shots because as soon as he touched the ball they ran 3 guys at him.

That gave us 2 options....feed Race in the post and let him go one on one (which worked), or have the perimeter guys make them pay for leaving them.

The debate then becomes, who can make them pay?

Right now, I would trust Armaan above the others. Even shooting 3's.

Thats my opinion. Others may say spot up Jerome, Rob etc.

Thats fine.

But right now, Armaan is shooting well. So I go there.

Not salty at all. 🍻

Fair enough and got it. But you sound salty above my friend, I never called anyone stupid that was a low blow.

Said I was done on this but these points I understand. You and others who think AF has developed into a long-term top outside shooters may be proved right — that would be great, it would mean we will over time score better from the outside with this kind of game plan than I think. 

But the way I see it is AF’s current outside shooting (I am NOT talking about his mid-range game, it’s strong) is heavily skewed by a couple stand-out games, and last night was the first game where a B1G team scouted him coming in. He did not shoot well and that’s on 17 shots (2-6 from deep). Having taken 17 shots he will be scouted well by Illinois, and so on. CAM has never referred to him as a top 3 shooter on the team, because he has never been that. 
 

On game options, we could have worked  the ball back out and in again to TJD or Race (great second half), or you could have given Lander run to move the ball as Al and Rob both were struggling to do so, or you could have given Hunter run and actually run sets fit him like CAM DID in the first game in which Hunter excelled. Instead we resorted to repeated outside shots by AF, while he was missing.
That is a recipe to lose, and we lost in large part because of that — not because AF isn’t good, because the number of shots resulted from a poor offensive scheme and AF did not shoot like a great outside shooter. 
  

I do not think the strength of AF’s game or the team’s offense is suited to AF taking 17 shots. We lost because of lack of scoring.

[DC2345]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

Agreed...superior athletes and skilled ones are the ones that can finish in traffic etc...we have neither of those on this team. We have a very average recruits and are expecting superior results...it ain’t happening. That is the exception and not the rule. You want a kid that can finish you need more Romeo/Trayce level recruits.

You can get by with those recruits if they develop but you also need 2 or 3 real top 40 or 50 guys as well that have a different level of skill and athleticism. TJD is that but nobody else on this team is. Franklin has developed and so has Race. Al is a nightmare who can’t stay off the ground and forces things. Rob is solid but hasn’t changed much. Trey does good things. Parker Stewart needs to play as soon as possible because he may be the offensive difference maker this team needs.

[IUCrazy2]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

At least someone gets it

Do you guys speed when you drive?

That is how I view the whole "cheating" thing.  We are basically in a cross country race with all of the other programs in the country.  We have a pretty nice car with a bunch of bells and whistles that is on par with the teams who usually win the race.  Top fan support, TV, make a bunch of money off the program, brand name, a history of winning the race.  We have all of that.  What we also have is a team owner and a subset of fans who say, "you mustn't speed".

So the other teams have figured out that the police (NCAA) do not even look your way if you are only doing 5 to 7 over the speed limit.  So they just set their cruise control at 5 to 7 over and hope they don't get pulled over in the rare instance where the cops get picky...but even when that happens they maybe get a ticket and they are on their way.  It slows them up for the time they are pulled over, but they just get the car back up to 5 to 7 again and they are right back in the race.  They may fall behind for that one race in that one year, but they are right back at it the next.

Then you have programs that say, hey, 5 to 7 is usually clear but what if we mostly do 10.  We may get caught from time to time, but the risk is worth the reward.  I get pulled over once in a blue moon, get punished for that one race, maybe dial it back to 5 to 7 over while I am on my probationary period and then I can get back up to 10 over again eventually.

And every now and then you have those teams who will normally do that 10 over who see an opportunity, turn on the radar detector (think a protective media) and kick it up to 20 over for a minute.  (See Duke and Zion).  They figure they got a clear stretch of road and if they don't do 20 over often or long, they will probably get away with it.  And they usually do.

So back to Indiana.  We will rarely kick it up to the 5 to 7 over to pass someone but then we quickly move back to the speed limit.  So the way we have to compete is to have perfect timing of lights, good preparation in our route, and no mistakes.  And we have to get lucky to never hit traffic.

So that becomes the question for the fans and the AD.  We want to win and to do that you have to either get the perfect course with the perfect timing, which makes winning big rare...or you need to decide how much risk you are willing to take by committing a minor traffic violation like speeding.  Something almost everyone does, that when done within reason will rarely if ever lead to you getting a ticket.  

So if you speed when driving your car, how much "speeding" are you willing to tolerate to allow your basketball team to be more competitive?  I am in the camp of we should be doing 5 to 7 over while occasionally pushing to 10 when that 10 is likely to give us a real chance to win the race that particular year.

[5fouls]

47 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Hey, not everybody that disagrees with you is stupid or blind. Just saying.

I'm not blind.  And, that's all I have to say about that.  

[rico]

6 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Do you guys speed when you drive?

That is how I view the whole "cheating" thing.  We are basically in a cross country race with all of the other programs in the country.  We have a pretty nice car with a bunch of bells and whistles that is on par with the teams who usually win the race.  Top fan support, TV, make a bunch of money off the program, brand name, a history of winning the race.  We have all of that.  What we also have is a team owner and a subset of fans who say, "you mustn't speed".

So the other teams have figured out that the police (NCAA) do not even look your way if you are only doing 5 to 7 over the speed limit.  So they just set their cruise control at 5 to 7 over and hope they don't get pulled over in the rare instance where the cops get picky...but even when that happens they maybe get a ticket and they are on their way.  It slows them up for the time they are pulled over, but they just get the car back up to 5 to 7 again and they are right back in the race.  They may fall behind for that one race in that one year, but they are right back at it the next.

Then you have programs that say, hey, 5 to 7 is usually clear but what if we mostly do 10.  We may get caught from time to time, but the risk is worth the reward.  I get pulled over once in a blue moon, get punished for that one race, maybe dial it back to 5 to 7 over while I am on my probationary period and then I can get back up to 10 over again eventually.

And every now and then you have those teams who will normally do that 10 over who see an opportunity, turn on the radar detector (think a protective media) and kick it up to 20 over for a minute.  (See Duke and Zion).  They figure they got a clear stretch of road and if they don't do 20 over often or long, they will probably get away with it.  And they usually do.

So back to Indiana.  We will rarely kick it up to the 5 to 7 over to pass someone but then we quickly move back to the speed limit.  So the way we have to compete is to have perfect timing of lights, good preparation in our route, and no mistakes.  And we have to get lucky to never hit traffic.

So that becomes the question for the fans and the AD.  We want to win and to do that you have to either get the perfect course with the perfect timing, which makes winning big rare...or you need to decide how much risk you are willing to take by committing a minor traffic violation like speeding.  Something almost everyone does, that when done within reason will rarely if ever lead to you getting a ticket.  

So if you speed when driving your car, how much "speeding" are you willing to tolerate to allow your basketball team to be more competitive?  I am in the camp of we should be doing 5 to 7 over while occasionally pushing to 10 when that 10 is likely to give us a real chance to win the race that particular year.

I am in the camp of "it ain't wrong until you get caught"

[IUCrazy2]

50 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

They’re only allowed so much time in the gym based on NCAA rules and I can guarantee they’re in there as much as is allowed. The question is what the coaches focus on during that practice time is another topic. It has nothing to do with the strength program. Who cares if they show it off on social media and you don’t know how much time they’re in the weight room but it’s probably not as much as you think. 

They are only allowed so much time with a coach...seems to me like they are allowed time to shoot whenever they want on their free time.  Oladipo built himself into a shooter on his free time.  The problem this program has is that there are zero consequences to not getting better.  Durham is not much different than he was as a sophomore and no consequences.  Rob is the same.

The strength and conditioning stuff is just a symptom of the Instagram team we have.  There is photoshopped, best foot forward Instagram reality...which is what is sold to the fans whenever a game is not being played, and then there is reality...what actually happens in the games.

Looking buff gets you on the team's social media accounts.  Actually being able to put the ball in the bucket doesn't.  You get what you emphasize...and yeah, yeah, I am not at practice and blah, blah, blah.  But I can tell you that we have been complaining about the same shhh since Miller started.  The only thing that has changed is the players we complain about.  Which means to me that the coaching staff is failing to develop culture and failing to emphasize the things that need done to win games.

It was just Northwestern...it was just one game.  I bet we see that argument at least 9 more times this year and it will be surrounded by posts asking why Rob and Al get all the minutes.  Why can't we shoot.  Why don't we get TJD the ball.  I mean it has been that way for 3 years now, why expect a change.

[DC2345]

20 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

They are only allowed so much time with a coach...seems to me like they are allowed time to shoot whenever they want on their free time.  Oladipo built himself into a shooter on his free time.  The problem this program has is that there are zero consequences to not getting better.  Durham is not much different than he was as a sophomore and no consequences.  Rob is the same.

The strength and conditioning stuff is just a symptom of the Instagram team we have.  There is photoshopped, best foot forward Instagram reality...which is what is sold to the fans whenever a game is not being played, and then there is reality...what actually happens in the games.

Looking buff gets you on the team's social media accounts.  Actually being able to put the ball in the bucket doesn't.  You get what you emphasize...and yeah, yeah, I am not at practice and blah, blah, blah.  But I can tell you that we have been complaining about the same shhh since Miller started.  The only thing that has changed is the players we complain about.  Which means to me that the coaching staff is failing to develop culture and failing to emphasize the things that need done to win games.

It was just Northwestern...it was just one game.  I bet we see that argument at least 9 more times this year and it will be surrounded by posts asking why Rob and Al get all the minutes.  Why can't we shoot.  Why don't we get TJD the ball.  I mean it has been that way for 3 years now, why expect a change.

I agree there are issues with the way CAM develops players and I don’t think he prepares well for games either. That said my only argument was that the strength program is a problem. It’s not and none of the photo’s are photoshopped. There are things done to make muscles stand out but that’s a different thing. Should they give the strength training less attention? Possibly but I also think it’s good that guys want to do that. I think they should just be pointing out actually scoring and winning more which is part of your argument too. I’m not defending CAM I just think you’re directing blame in the wrong direction a bit. 

[Billingsley99]

32 minutes ago, rico said:

I am in the camp of "it ain't wrong until you get caught"

Its much easier to ask for forgivness than to ask for permission 

[IUCrazy2]

7 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

I agree there are issues with the way CAM develops players and I don’t think he prepares well for games either. That said my only argument was that the strength program is a problem. It’s not and none of the photo’s are photoshopped. There are things done to make muscles stand out but that’s a different thing. Should they give the strength training less attention? Possibly but I also think it’s good that guys want to do that. I think they should just be pointing out actually scoring and winning more which is part of your argument too. I’m not defending CAM I just think you’re directing blame in the wrong direction a bit. 

I'm annoyed and lashing out.

You make a fair point.  It is something I normally would not care about, but when things are not going well, please just stop with the "get the right angle to look the most buff" photos and talk about increased verticals and all of that.  That is stuff you advertise when things are going well.  What you advertise when they are not is things like Hulls and Oladipo putting in extra time to put up shots.

[13th&Jackson]

Watching the game and reviewing the box score, IU shooting didn’t lose the game. Shooting 48% overall and 39% from 3 will win a lot of games in CBB today. Both teams made 7 threes. Made FTs were 11 for NW and 10 for IU, so not a major difference although NW shot a higher %. IU lost the game because NW was 21-31 from two. Partly this was Audige going nuts but NW got too many easy baskets in transition off live ball TOs. They had 20 points off TOs. That was the game. 

[ThePaulieWalnuts]

When you've been conditioned to it, it's normal.  This is the norm.  Just thank God the women's team can get sh*t done as well as the football team, because this team, this Coach and this program isn't it and hasn't been for a very long time.