Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[KoB2011]

7 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

In Defense of Mike Woodson: Why the IU coach isn't going anywhere and why he shouldn't

•  

 

 

 

Indiana head coach Mike Woodson, in his third season at the helm, has led the Hoosiers to a 56-32 record.

• Associated Press

 

Indiana head coach Mike Woodson watches as his team plays against Nebraska during the first half of an NCAA college basketball game Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2024, in Lincoln, Neb. Nebraska defeated Indiana 86-70. 

• Associated Press

 

Indiana head coach Mike Woodson looks on during the first half of an NCAA college basketball game against Purdue, Tuesday, Jan. 16, 2024, in Bloomington, Ind. 

• Associated Press

 

 

 

It has not been a good January for Indiana basketball.

First came the Hoosiers’ 86-70 loss to a Nebraska team they had owned in recent years. Then there was yet another loss to Rutgers, a team the Hoosiers can’t seem to beat away from Assembly Hall. The coup de grâce was Tuesday, when IU suffered an 87-66 loss against rival Purdue, the biggest margin of victory for the Boilermakers in Bloomington since 1934.

The defeat to the Boilers left Indiana with a 12-6 record, a 4-3 mark in Big Ten play and a rapidly narrowing path to NCAA Tournament contention. And life does not get any easier – the Hoosiers must next travel to Wisconsin to take on the Big Ten-leading Badgers at the Kohl Center tonight. IU has lost 19 in row to Wisconsin on the road and the current iteration of the Cream and Crimson shows little sign of being able to end that streak.

Indiana’s recent struggles have brought criticism raining down on coach Mike Woodson. For his first time as leader of the program, Woodson is now hearing calls for his job, insistence the Hoosiers are not where they should be in Year 3 of his tenure and rage at the stagnation of the team after a modestly successful 2022-23 season.

To those members of one of the most passionate fanbases in the country who want the Hoosiers to move on from Woodson, there is a simple answer: Take a breath. The coach isn’t going anywhere, nor should he.

It’s true, there are plenty of reasons to criticize Woodson’s performance as head coach. His substitution patterns, which often put three or four players from a less-than-effective IU bench on the court at the same time, have not worked and have cost the Hoosiers early leads a couple of times this season.

More broadly, Woodson made a mistake in not getting another guard in the transfer portal this offseason. IU has a roster spot open and injuries to sixth-year senior Xavier Johnson and freshman Jakai Newton have torpedoed the Hoosiers’ backcourt depth, a reality on full display against Purdue, when the Boilermakers’ three-guard rotation helped snuff out IU’s second-half comeback attempt.

But the reasons to keep Woodson around for a while longer are both logical and practical.

Logically, Woodson has earned more time. He took over a team that had spent four years wandering in the wilderness under failed coach Archie Miller and took it to the NCAA Tournament in his first season.

In his second season, the Hoosiers started 7-0, then suffered injuries to an honorable mention All-Big Ten guard (Johnson) and an honorable mention All-Big Ten forward (Race Thompson) around the same time. Woodson re-tooled on the fly, helped freshman point guard Jalen Hood-Schifino get confident running the show and led IU to a No. 4 NCAA Tournament seed, its highest since 2016, plus a pair of wins over the otherwise-dominant Boilermakers. The step back this season does not erase the success of the last two years.

During his tenure, Woodson’s recruiting and development have been excellent. He started out by convincing Trayce Jackson-Davis to return to IU in one two-hour conversation and then helped him develop into one of the best players in Hoosiers history. Under his tutelage, Hood-Schifino, Malik Reneau, Kel’el Ware and Mackenzie Mgbako, among others, have improved immensely. He has brought six five-star recruits into the program in four recruiting cycles and consistently has IU in contention for the type of talent to which Miller only rarely got close.

Even the issue with the guards this year is relatively explicable. Woodson returned a pair of veteran starters in the backcourt – Johnson and Trey Galloway – and had talented freshman backups at both spots in Gabe Cupps and Newton. As a result, he couldn’t promise much playing time to guards in the portal, making recruiting difficult. As they did last season, injuries have undercut Woodson’s team-building strategy.

Woodson’s overall record as IU’s coach (56-32) – not to mention his track record of previous success with two NBA franchises – means he deserves the benefit of the doubt and time to build in Bloomington.

But the fanbase knows all that and many still want Woodson gone. The problem the coach has run into is that of Backup Quarterback Syndrome. Every starting signal-caller knows the backup QB is the most popular player in town. For IU fans, the backup quarterback is Florida Atlantic coach Dusty May, who led the upstart Owls to the Final Four last season. May, 42, happens to be an IU graduate and the fans clamoring to fire Woodson are dreaming of bringing him back to his alma mater.

This is where the practical reasons to keep Woodson come in. Indiana has hired five coaches since 2000. The first four of those coaches have been fired. Firing the fifth, too, after just three seasons at the helm, would only bolster IU’s reputation for an itchy trigger finger, the exact type of reputation that could scare off a rising star such as May.

Far better to give Woodson at least the four years Miller received and maybe even a fifth, to ensure the coach has every opportunity to find success. IU athletic director Scott Dolson almost certainly feels the same way; there is virtual certainty Woodson will be back next season.

With that in mind, Indiana fans should simply sit back and relax. Enjoy every monster Ware dunk, every wily Reneau move on the post. Then think of five-star signee Liam McNeeley raining 3s off of passes from the transfer point guard Woodson will bring in this offseason.

Don’t listen to Chicken Little; the sky is not falling yet.

Dylan Sinn covers Notre Dame, Indiana and Purdue for The Journal Gazette. He can be reached at dsinn@jg.net.

 

Dylan Sinn covers Notre Dame, Indiana and Purdue for The Journal Gazette. He can be reached at dsinn@jg.net.

 

 

 

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I don’t think many people want him gone no matter what. I think a lot of people want to see him make adjustments to his approach, and some of those adjustments he can make right now.

It’s very rare for a coach that is stubborn in their approach to be successful long term anywhere. One of the most important things you can do to be successful is to adapt and evolve. Woodson needs to do that. 

[NCHoosier32]

just not sure i agree with the good job of developing part

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

just not sure i agree with the good job of developing part

Right. We have three five stars in the starting lineup, and then two guards that are 4th and 6th year players and both in their third under Woodson.

You can’t really make the case he doesn’t have enough talent on this team AND is a good player development guy.

[OGIUAndy]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Right. We have three five stars in the starting lineup, and then two guards that are 4th and 6th year players and both in their third under Woodson.

You can’t really make the case he doesn’t have enough talent on this team AND is a good player development guy.

I am not sure how much more evidence people need when it comes to "five stars". That's not really indicative of instant success. This team is not well constructed and that's the main thing I blame on Woody and the others. They brought in Sparks and Walker when they needed to bring in at least one other guard/shooters. X was coming off a serious injury so we really had no idea what we'd get from him day in day out. He's been way worse than expected but they should have at least protected against that and the obvious lack of a pure shooter. I think they can still turn it around to certain extent, but Woody needs to play the guys who have shown something and not keep playing guys just to play them. This next week or so is make or break. 

[KoB2011]

Just now, OGIUAndy said:

I am not sure how much more evidence people need when it comes to "five stars". That's not really indicative of instant success. This team is not well constructed and that's the main thing I blame on Woody and the others. They brought in Sparks and Walker when they needed to bring in at least one other guard/shooters. X was coming off a serious injury so we really had no idea what we'd get from him day in day out. He's been way worse than expected but they should have at least protected against that and the obvious lack of a pure shooter. I think they can still turn it around to certain extent, but Woody needs to play the guys who have shown something and not keep playing guys just to play them. This next week or so is make or break. 

I completely agree the roster isn’t well constructed.

I also think we have very evident schematic issues that have been there for three years. Both these things can be true.

I personally think our player development is a mixed bag, and frankly that’s true of most coaches.

That all said, this roster despite its flaws could be a tournament team with better coaching. Instead we are looking like one of the worst teams in most IU fans lifetime. 

[13th&Jackson]

48 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

In Defense of Mike Woodson: Why the IU coach isn't going anywhere and why he shouldn't

•  

 

 

 

Indiana head coach Mike Woodson, in his third season at the helm, has led the Hoosiers to a 56-32 record.

• Associated Press

 

Indiana head coach Mike Woodson watches as his team plays against Nebraska during the first half of an NCAA college basketball game Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2024, in Lincoln, Neb. Nebraska defeated Indiana 86-70. 

• Associated Press

 

Indiana head coach Mike Woodson looks on during the first half of an NCAA college basketball game against Purdue, Tuesday, Jan. 16, 2024, in Bloomington, Ind. 

• Associated Press

 

 

 

It has not been a good January for Indiana basketball.

First came the Hoosiers’ 86-70 loss to a Nebraska team they had owned in recent years. Then there was yet another loss to Rutgers, a team the Hoosiers can’t seem to beat away from Assembly Hall. The coup de grâce was Tuesday, when IU suffered an 87-66 loss against rival Purdue, the biggest margin of victory for the Boilermakers in Bloomington since 1934.

The defeat to the Boilers left Indiana with a 12-6 record, a 4-3 mark in Big Ten play and a rapidly narrowing path to NCAA Tournament contention. And life does not get any easier – the Hoosiers must next travel to Wisconsin to take on the Big Ten-leading Badgers at the Kohl Center tonight. IU has lost 19 in row to Wisconsin on the road and the current iteration of the Cream and Crimson shows little sign of being able to end that streak.

Indiana’s recent struggles have brought criticism raining down on coach Mike Woodson. For his first time as leader of the program, Woodson is now hearing calls for his job, insistence the Hoosiers are not where they should be in Year 3 of his tenure and rage at the stagnation of the team after a modestly successful 2022-23 season.

To those members of one of the most passionate fanbases in the country who want the Hoosiers to move on from Woodson, there is a simple answer: Take a breath. The coach isn’t going anywhere, nor should he.

It’s true, there are plenty of reasons to criticize Woodson’s performance as head coach. His substitution patterns, which often put three or four players from a less-than-effective IU bench on the court at the same time, have not worked and have cost the Hoosiers early leads a couple of times this season.

More broadly, Woodson made a mistake in not getting another guard in the transfer portal this offseason. IU has a roster spot open and injuries to sixth-year senior Xavier Johnson and freshman Jakai Newton have torpedoed the Hoosiers’ backcourt depth, a reality on full display against Purdue, when the Boilermakers’ three-guard rotation helped snuff out IU’s second-half comeback attempt.

But the reasons to keep Woodson around for a while longer are both logical and practical.

Logically, Woodson has earned more time. He took over a team that had spent four years wandering in the wilderness under failed coach Archie Miller and took it to the NCAA Tournament in his first season.

In his second season, the Hoosiers started 7-0, then suffered injuries to an honorable mention All-Big Ten guard (Johnson) and an honorable mention All-Big Ten forward (Race Thompson) around the same time. Woodson re-tooled on the fly, helped freshman point guard Jalen Hood-Schifino get confident running the show and led IU to a No. 4 NCAA Tournament seed, its highest since 2016, plus a pair of wins over the otherwise-dominant Boilermakers. The step back this season does not erase the success of the last two years.

During his tenure, Woodson’s recruiting and development have been excellent. He started out by convincing Trayce Jackson-Davis to return to IU in one two-hour conversation and then helped him develop into one of the best players in Hoosiers history. Under his tutelage, Hood-Schifino, Malik Reneau, Kel’el Ware and Mackenzie Mgbako, among others, have improved immensely. He has brought six five-star recruits into the program in four recruiting cycles and consistently has IU in contention for the type of talent to which Miller only rarely got close.

Even the issue with the guards this year is relatively explicable. Woodson returned a pair of veteran starters in the backcourt – Johnson and Trey Galloway – and had talented freshman backups at both spots in Gabe Cupps and Newton. As a result, he couldn’t promise much playing time to guards in the portal, making recruiting difficult. As they did last season, injuries have undercut Woodson’s team-building strategy.

Woodson’s overall record as IU’s coach (56-32) – not to mention his track record of previous success with two NBA franchises – means he deserves the benefit of the doubt and time to build in Bloomington.

But the fanbase knows all that and many still want Woodson gone. The problem the coach has run into is that of Backup Quarterback Syndrome. Every starting signal-caller knows the backup QB is the most popular player in town. For IU fans, the backup quarterback is Florida Atlantic coach Dusty May, who led the upstart Owls to the Final Four last season. May, 42, happens to be an IU graduate and the fans clamoring to fire Woodson are dreaming of bringing him back to his alma mater.

This is where the practical reasons to keep Woodson come in. Indiana has hired five coaches since 2000. The first four of those coaches have been fired. Firing the fifth, too, after just three seasons at the helm, would only bolster IU’s reputation for an itchy trigger finger, the exact type of reputation that could scare off a rising star such as May.

Far better to give Woodson at least the four years Miller received and maybe even a fifth, to ensure the coach has every opportunity to find success. IU athletic director Scott Dolson almost certainly feels the same way; there is virtual certainty Woodson will be back next season.

With that in mind, Indiana fans should simply sit back and relax. Enjoy every monster Ware dunk, every wily Reneau move on the post. Then think of five-star signee Liam McNeeley raining 3s off of passes from the transfer point guard Woodson will bring in this offseason.

Don’t listen to Chicken Little; the sky is not falling yet.

Dylan Sinn covers Notre Dame, Indiana and Purdue for The Journal Gazette. He can be reached at dsinn@jg.net.

 

Dylan Sinn covers Notre Dame, Indiana and Purdue for The Journal Gazette. He can be reached at dsinn@jg.net.

 

 

 

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Groundhog Day:

I suspect the same sort of patience will be exercised at Indiana as it nears the end of Archie Miller’s third season, a period that actually has gone much more smoothly than Wright’s early years (while still not smoothly at all.)

There is an angry portion of the Hoosiers' fan base, and one or two loud media voices, haranguing him at every opportunity. There is plenty of agitation regarding his job security. John Beilein hadn’t even officially left his NBA job and the Twitter assassins already were calling to move Miller out to make room for him.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/indiana-should-give-archie-miller-time-not-make-a-beeline-for-his-successor/9q6f8nd5y96r13ynqi09kifvf

And so it goes:

As of now, though, it appears Crean will be back on the sideline at Indiana next fall. Based on what I saw Friday, I'd rank the Hoosiers in my preseason top 15 as long as standout guards Yogi Ferrell and James Blackmon Jr. return along with small forward Troy Williams. You won't be able to find many trios in America that are as good as that one.

If Crean indeed returns, he'll surely make a few adjustments, whether it's how he deals with players or the media or even other coaching colleagues. Prideful as he is, Crean is big enough to admit he needs to change a few things.

Hopefully Indiana fans are big enough to admit they need to change, too.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2404140-indiana-coach-tom-creans-job-likely-safe-despite-fans-firetomcrean-nonsense

 

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Groundhog Day:

I suspect the same sort of patience will be exercised at Indiana as it nears the end of Archie Miller’s third season, a period that actually has gone much more smoothly than Wright’s early years (while still not smoothly at all.)

There is an angry portion of the Hoosiers' fan base, and one or two loud media voices, haranguing him at every opportunity. There is plenty of agitation regarding his job security. John Beilein hadn’t even officially left his NBA job and the Twitter assassins already were calling to move Miller out to make room for him.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/indiana-should-give-archie-miller-time-not-make-a-beeline-for-his-successor/9q6f8nd5y96r13ynqi09kifvf

And so it goes:

As of now, though, it appears Crean will be back on the sideline at Indiana next fall. Based on what I saw Friday, I'd rank the Hoosiers in my preseason top 15 as long as standout guards Yogi Ferrell and James Blackmon Jr. return along with small forward Troy Williams. You won't be able to find many trios in America that are as good as that one.

If Crean indeed returns, he'll surely make a few adjustments, whether it's how he deals with players or the media or even other coaching colleagues. Prideful as he is, Crean is big enough to admit he needs to change a few things.

Hopefully Indiana fans are big enough to admit they need to change, too.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2404140-indiana-coach-tom-creans-job-likely-safe-despite-fans-firetomcrean-nonsense

 

To be fair on the Crean clip, we won the Big Ten the year it mentions him returning for. 

[Sea Turtle]

Nebraska football

[13th&Jackson]

Just now, KoB2011 said:

To be fair on the Crean clip, we won the Big Ten the year it mentions him returning for. 

Oh, I know. But the narrative had been established. Once the media feels the need to start defending coaches, it's generally just a matter of time. I think Woodson has two big problems, 1) his teams don't play smart, fundamental basketball (which fans really expected) and 2) at his age, is he happy in a "retirement job" or will he really adjust to effectively make the changes in what he's described as a "closing window"?

If this team played hard, smart and fundamental basketball, people would be far more forgiving of a step back season this year. Especially if they could see a foundation of improving players who will likely return next year. What are the odds of bringing in a plug and play backcourt that can form a top 25 caliber team?

This team really needs to pull off an upset in one of the next two games, tonight would be especially nice, or it's going to be a long year and offseason.

And because it’s Indiana, it can always get existentially ugly too.

This place does not handle stress well. It — and this is said in the broadest possible sense, by someone who’s worked the IU beat for well more than a decade now — assumes the worst far too quickly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/mike-woodsons-third-season-at-iu-is-teetering-on-the-edge-and-that-makes-folks-nervous/ar-AA1n6bsG

 

 

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Oh, I know. But the narrative had been established. Once the media feels the need to start defending coaches, it's generally just a matter of time. I think Woodson has two big problems, 1) his teams don't play smart, fundamental basketball (which fans really expected) and 2) at his age, is he happy in a "retirement job" or will he really adjust to effectively make the changes in what he's described as a "closing window"?

If this team played hard, smart and fundamental basketball, people would be far more forgiving of a step back season this year. Especially if they could see a foundation of improving players who will likely return next year. What are the odds of bringing in a plug and play backcourt that can form a top 25 caliber team?

This team really needs to pull off an upset in one of the next two games, tonight would be especially nice, or it's going to be a long year and offseason.

And because it’s Indiana, it can always get existentially ugly too.

This place does not handle stress well. It — and this is said in the broadest possible sense, by someone who’s worked the IU beat for well more than a decade now — assumes the worst far too quickly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/mike-woodsons-third-season-at-iu-is-teetering-on-the-edge-and-that-makes-folks-nervous/ar-AA1n6bsG

 

 

Ah gotcha.

Yeah, the defensive narratives just suck. Sometimes I think it’s emotionally unintelligent hacks trying to convince themselves all is well because they can’t handle that what Woodson has been doing isn’t the answer.

Its up to Woody to adapt or else Dolson to move on. 

[NCHoosier32]

1 hour ago, OGIUAndy said:

I am not sure how much more evidence people need when it comes to "five stars". That's not really indicative of instant success. This team is not well constructed and that's the main thing I blame on Woody and the others. They brought in Sparks and Walker when they needed to bring in at least one other guard/shooters. X was coming off a serious injury so we really had no idea what we'd get from him day in day out. He's been way worse than expected but they should have at least protected against that and the obvious lack of a pure shooter. I think they can still turn it around to certain extent, but Woody needs to play the guys who have shown something and not keep playing guys just to play them. This next week or so is make or break. 

here's something to think about though...how confident would you feel if Woodson went out and got a bunch of off the radar guys with 3 stars by their names?  does anyone really think he'd turn them into a finely tuned machine?  does anyone think we'd be better off?

[BADGERVOL]

2 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

just not sure i agree with the good job of developing part

We don’t have enough of a sample size to determine either way. I felt that would be one of his great strengths. It seems pro players attribute that strength to him. So far here you can argue Trayce but after that it gets to be a little bit of a stretch.

So no I’m not one to say “one thing we know for sure is Woodson develops players.” I don’t feel I agree with that…yet.

[BADGERVOL]

15 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

here's something to think about though...how confident would you feel if Woodson went out and got a bunch of off the radar guys with 3 stars by their names?  does anyone really think he'd turn them into a finely tuned machine?  does anyone think we'd be better off?

I honestly don’t care what he does if he gets us into the top 10 consistently and the expectation every year is finish in the top half of conference, fight for conference titles every 2-3 years and make runs semi consistently in the tourney with an eventual championship.

 

3,4,5 star idc just get it done.

[IndyResident16]

22 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

here's something to think about though...how confident would you feel if Woodson went out and got a bunch of off the radar guys with 3 stars by their names?  does anyone really think he'd turn them into a finely tuned machine?  does anyone think we'd be better off?

Can they pass, dribble, shoot?

[BADGERVOL]

I’m getting tired of him not taking ownership of the ship. I can’t stand how our perimeter defense is bad, and continues to BE bad, and it seems nothing is changing. I’m concerned about his recruiting. Not the talent but the construction there of. There have been issues any average fan could see needed addressed and somehow they weren’t. Why? How?

WITH THAT BEING SAID, I have zero desire for him to be fired after this season. That’s ridiculous. But we need to see that we are back on track next season and building the program to a better spot. Idc what that takes in the portal or HS talent. But we can’t have another season like this weird one or very few players will want to come. Then it snow balls quickly and he won’t make it. I want him to succeed. He’s an IU guy and he LOVES this program. Can’t ask for a better guy to succeed here.

But as awesome of a guy as he is, he isn’t paid millions to appear to be a great fit. He needs to BE a great fit and get us back.

So let’s get this done coach! 💪🏻

[Maedhros]

I thought this bit from Zach was spot on:

"The line between frustration over a difficult season and surrender of an entire tenure should not be so thin. There has to be a way for IU basketball — as a monolithic entity — to absorb an ugly run of results, even a down season, without it becoming an indictment on the state or direction of the program."

This season has been rough. No doubt about it. Some of the pain has been due to long term trends that need to be corrected. I don't disagree. But it's been remarkable to see this fan base so quickly turn against a coach that accomplished tangible, positive things his first two seasons. 

Bad seasons happen, even to good coaches. Arkansas has been a disaster this year under Eric Mussleman. UCLA has been a disaster under Mick Cronin, after being a 2 seed last season. Wisconsin was 61 in KenPom last season and missed the tournament. We'll see for ourselves tonight how well they rebounded. In his ninth year, Matt Painter finished dead last in the Big Ten.

None of these seasons were reason to cut bait on that coach (granted, Mick Cronin does seem to be already out the door for the Louisville job). Yet this board and this fan base increasingly have already decided it's time to move on from Mike Woodson. The doomposting is beyond exhausting. We have to learn to allow for failure and growth in this program.

 

[MoyeCowbell]

35 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

here's something to think about though...how confident would you feel if Woodson went out and got a bunch of off the radar guys with 3 stars by their names?  does anyone really think he'd turn them into a finely tuned machine?  does anyone think we'd be better off?

If this team were a race car, we'd have two really good rear tires, another rear tire incorrectly placed in the front, an accelerator that doesn't touch the floor, a brake that doesn't, and a steering wheel that's prone to randomly popping off. There's also a random seatbelt that sorta works, a turbo boost that operates 10% of the time and a gearbox that is partially stripped.

I don't think people are suggesting bad parts over quality 5 parts, but rather the correct parts in the right places.

[Indykev]

On 12/18/2023 at 11:46 AM, IUFLA said:

No he wouldn't...

“I take a season one game at a time, one practice at a time. Yes, we’ve got goals,” Woodson said on Thursday. “I came back here to win Big Ten titles and a national title. That’s all I want. I’m not going to push the team in any other direction. If they’re scared of that challenge, then they shouldn’t be here.”

If thats not the standard for fans, what the hell are you doing here!!

[Indykev]

19 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I thought this bit from Zach was spot on:

"The line between frustration over a difficult season and surrender of an entire tenure should not be so thin. There has to be a way for IU basketball — as a monolithic entity — to absorb an ugly run of results, even a down season, without it becoming an indictment on the state or direction of the program."

This season has been rough. No doubt about it. Some of the pain has been due to long term trends that need to be corrected. I don't disagree. But it's been remarkable to see this fan base so quickly turn against a coach that accomplished tangible, positive things his first two seasons. 

Bad seasons happen, even to good coaches. Arkansas has been a disaster this year under Eric Mussleman. UCLA has been a disaster under Mick Cronin, after being a 2 seed last season. Wisconsin was 61 in KenPom last season and missed the tournament. We'll see for ourselves tonight how well they rebounded. In his ninth year, Matt Painter finished dead last in the Big Ten.

None of these seasons were reason to cut bait on that coach (granted, Mick Cronin does seem to be already out the door for the Louisville job). Yet this board and this fan base increasingly have already decided it's time to move on from Mike Woodson. The doomposting is beyond exhausting. We have to learn to allow for failure and growth in this program.

 

The reason isn't the losing, its the HOW is the problem. When Tom Crean is a better coach, thats when you cut bait.

[IowaHoosierFan]

24 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I thought this bit from Zach was spot on:

"The line between frustration over a difficult season and surrender of an entire tenure should not be so thin. There has to be a way for IU basketball — as a monolithic entity — to absorb an ugly run of results, even a down season, without it becoming an indictment on the state or direction of the program."

This season has been rough. No doubt about it. Some of the pain has been due to long term trends that need to be corrected. I don't disagree. But it's been remarkable to see this fan base so quickly turn against a coach that accomplished tangible, positive things his first two seasons. 

Bad seasons happen, even to good coaches. Arkansas has been a disaster this year under Eric Mussleman. UCLA has been a disaster under Mick Cronin, after being a 2 seed last season. Wisconsin was 61 in KenPom last season and missed the tournament. We'll see for ourselves tonight how well they rebounded. In his ninth year, Matt Painter finished dead last in the Big Ten.

None of these seasons were reason to cut bait on that coach (granted, Mick Cronin does seem to be already out the door for the Louisville job). Yet this board and this fan base increasingly have already decided it's time to move on from Mike Woodson. The doomposting is beyond exhausting. We have to learn to allow for failure and growth in this program.

 

Coach Woodson unfortunately is in the tail end of a 25+ year spiral for IU and the fanbase is tired of it (mostly, outliers on both end of course).  Most fans aren't looking at just this season either.  Its the same issues we have had for 3 seasons, regardless of the number of wins we have had.  And saying we made the tourney is a win for the coach is laughable at best for a once Blue Blood program.  It just illustrates how far we have truly fallen and how badly we want to find anything to hang our optimism on.

We waited to long on Coach Crean and One year to long on Coach Miller.  We will end up waiting to long on Coach Woodson as well.  Its what we do.  There will be a perfect fit coach available after this season or next season and we wont' pull the trigger until there is no options available.  Then we will pick yet another bright spot in the future only to realize it another trail coming down the tracks to run us over again. (Insert Wiley Coyote sign here)  

I am not advocating for his firing.  I just don't see any light at the end of this tunnel.  I don't see him changing his philosophy regarding his offense or defensive schemes and for years we haven't been able to get actual shooters to step foot on our court, well at least wearing an IU jersey. 

I will gladly eat crow if i am wrong, but i just don't think he is every going to be successful (At a consistent high level).  And honestly at this point in watching IU for the last 20 years, i don't really care much.  I put on my IU long sleeve and my girlfriend puts on her IU sweatshirt and we yell at XJ doing stupid stuff, Galloway always being on the floor or missing free throws and MR trying to power through a triple team while 2 other Hoosiers stand around and watch.  I think i need to go see the sun, instead of this snow, and find a brighter outlook lol.   

Go Hoosiers.

Edited January 19 by IowaHoosierFan

[jefftheref]

Dude can't be gone soon enough. The trouble is I don't think there is anyone at Indiana smart enough to hire the right person to get this program back to prominence both in the short term and long term.

Indiana just keeps the wheels spinning because we are stuck in the mud. Hopefully before I die someone there will figure out how to get us back on the right path.

 

[IndyResident16]

50 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I thought this bit from Zach was spot on:

"The line between frustration over a difficult season and surrender of an entire tenure should not be so thin. There has to be a way for IU basketball — as a monolithic entity — to absorb an ugly run of results, even a down season, without it becoming an indictment on the state or direction of the program."

This season has been rough. No doubt about it. Some of the pain has been due to long term trends that need to be corrected. I don't disagree. But it's been remarkable to see this fan base so quickly turn against a coach that accomplished tangible, positive things his first two seasons. 

Bad seasons happen, even to good coaches. Arkansas has been a disaster this year under Eric Mussleman. UCLA has been a disaster under Mick Cronin, after being a 2 seed last season. Wisconsin was 61 in KenPom last season and missed the tournament. We'll see for ourselves tonight how well they rebounded. In his ninth year, Matt Painter finished dead last in the Big Ten.

None of these seasons were reason to cut bait on that coach (granted, Mick Cronin does seem to be already out the door for the Louisville job). Yet this board and this fan base increasingly have already decided it's time to move on from Mike Woodson. The doomposting is beyond exhausting. We have to learn to allow for failure and growth in this program.

 

We are in the reality stages of the Mike Woodson era. Anybody who thought this was going to be anything more than a band aid hire to unite the older and younger generations for a year or two was lying to themselves. This hire was doomed to fail from the start. Shudder to think where we’d be right now if a generational talent in TJD elected to keep his name in the draft. Chris Mullin St. John’s level bad? 
 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, MoyeCowbell said:

If this team were a race car, we'd have two really good rear tires, another rear tire incorrectly placed in the front, an accelerator that doesn't touch the floor, a brake that doesn't, and a steering wheel that's prone to randomly popping off. There's also a random seatbelt that sorta works, a turbo boost that operates 10% of the time and a gearbox that is partially stripped.

I don't think people are suggesting bad parts over quality 5 parts, but rather the correct parts in the right places.

I personally think a golf club analogy would be better. This set may not be fit for us, might not be the exact type of clubs we need, and those things are going to have some impact on how well we do.

But a good golfer is still plenty capable of using what we do have to make par with the set we have, and bad golfers will make excuses about this equipment. 

[Parakeet Jones]

3 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

I’m getting tired of him not taking ownership of the ship. I can’t stand how our perimeter defense is bad, and continues to BE bad, and it seems nothing is changing. I’m concerned about his recruiting. Not the talent but the construction there of. There have been issues any average fan could see needed addressed and somehow they weren’t. Why? How?

WITH THAT BEING SAID, I have zero desire for him to be fired after this season. That’s ridiculous. But we need to see that we are back on track next season and building the program to a better spot. Idc what that takes in the portal or HS talent. But we can’t have another season like this weird one or very few players will want to come. Then it snow balls quickly and he won’t make it. I want him to succeed. He’s an IU guy and he LOVES this program. Can’t ask for a better guy to succeed here.

But as awesome of a guy as he is, he isn’t paid millions to appear to be a great fit. He needs to BE a great fit and get us back.

So let’s get this done coach! 💪🏻

I’ve been feeling exactly what you posted for a while now, especially your second paragraph, and thought about posting something similar but could never figure out the right wording. Since I couldn’t figure it out I’m just going to quote you and say, “What he said!”  

[IUCrazy2]

8 hours ago, Maedhros said:

I thought this bit from Zach was spot on:

"The line between frustration over a difficult season and surrender of an entire tenure should not be so thin. There has to be a way for IU basketball — as a monolithic entity — to absorb an ugly run of results, even a down season, without it becoming an indictment on the state or direction of the program."

This season has been rough. No doubt about it. Some of the pain has been due to long term trends that need to be corrected. I don't disagree. But it's been remarkable to see this fan base so quickly turn against a coach that accomplished tangible, positive things his first two seasons. 

Bad seasons happen, even to good coaches. Arkansas has been a disaster this year under Eric Mussleman. UCLA has been a disaster under Mick Cronin, after being a 2 seed last season. Wisconsin was 61 in KenPom last season and missed the tournament. We'll see for ourselves tonight how well they rebounded. In his ninth year, Matt Painter finished dead last in the Big Ten.

None of these seasons were reason to cut bait on that coach (granted, Mick Cronin does seem to be already out the door for the Louisville job). Yet this board and this fan base increasingly have already decided it's time to move on from Mike Woodson. The doomposting is beyond exhausting. We have to learn to allow for failure and growth in this program.

 

You don't keep around 3rd year coaches who are 65 because of room for growth.  Growth was year 1 and 2.  He has to win now.

I don't care who Indiana brings into this job. They. Have. To. Win. Now.  The last time we beat Wisconsin in Wisconsin, I was a Freshman at IU.  I am 45 flipping years old now.  Patience is gone.  "Well that isn't fair to the new guy."  I am well beyond giving a sh*t about fair.  You can walk out and buy a new team every year now. I won't hear it anymore.  This school demands and uses more resources than about any other program in the country and it keeps on walking out the same stupid crap year after year after year after year.  "Well those folks just aren't patient over there."  My ass.  We have been beyond patient.  The problem this school has is that we the fans aren't stupid.  Everybody and their grandma can tell you the things that have been wrong about the current program and you haven't seen one step to address any of it.  Not one.  Same stupid sh*t game after game.

Woodson being a former great is the only thing saving his butt right now.  I think a whole bunch of people have been biting their tongue and trying to give the benefit of the doubt but he has been anything but what people were selling him on when he was inexplicably chosen for the job to begin with.  His program is about as detached from Knight in one respect and from NBA modernity in the other as one could be.

He'll get a 4th year and I bet he does just enough to save his job. After that, how many more do we really want to waste on a short termer who isn't the answer?  That's the question.