Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[13th&Jackson]

1 hour ago, Feathery said:

Archie wasn’t a unanimous favorite when he was hired either. Though a lot of ppl wanted him. I remember debating ppl on here and elsewhere that Archie isn’t in my top 5 candidates. His offensive system was bad imo. Slow and low scoring, reminding me of Bennett in a way but not as bad. And his defense gave up the 3 a lot. As we see still that doesn’t work in the modern game. I rooted for Archie to do well but he was in over his head and you could tell by his body language at his announcement. And then they got torched by Ft Wayne.

 May is different bc he can coach offense and putting the ball in the hoop is the hardest thing to do. The big question about May, is his defense. I think he has to bring a defensive specialist in to help him grow in that area to be successful at IU. If not he will end up being some version of Fran McCaffery at Iowa. Minus the explosive personality that we all laugh at Fran for. 

In addition to the defense, I wonder if May is prepared to coach in the IU pressure cooker. It takes a special personality.

Dusty May opened the door, looked at Anna and broke down into tears. 

It's March 2018. May had signed FAU's contract that made him a first-time head coach just a few hours earlier. 

And here he was, bawling in a hotel room, trying to figure out a way to back out of the deal.

“I walk in the room and I started crying and said, 'I just committed career suicide. I'm not good enough. I can't do this,'" May told CBS Sports. 

May admits to having an impulsive personality. He wanted the job, then he didn't want the job. He signed the contract before ever seeing FAU's basketball facilities. Once he did, panic set in. 

The meeting with athletic director Brian White, who at that point wasn't even a week into his new job at FAU, was so good that May agreed to be the Owls' coach just hours after arriving in Boca Raton, Florida.

When I feel something in my stomach I go with it," May said. 

May had no agent, so almost purely on vibes and the temperature in the air, he put pen to paper.

"At that point, I still haven't been to our gym, our weight room, our locker room," May said.

When he saw the gym, the weight room, the locker room, May was cloaked in remorse. He tried not to show it on his face.

May was freaking out internally. He wanted to go back to Florida and stay on as Mike White's top assistant. 

"I knew we just had a lot of work even to fill a competitive roster," May said. "I would've left and went back to Gainesville after signing the contract if it wasn't for my relationship with Mike and his family."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dusty-may-wanted-to-quit-hours-after-signing-fau-contract-now-hes-coached-owls-to-improbable-final-four-run/

[NCHoosier32]

38 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

It’s not uncommon for AD’s to call a meeting to tell a coach they aren’t meeting expectations so they can try and adjust. It’s no different than getting called in by a boss in any other industry.

maybe they were just talking about getting over the hump?  

[Feathery]

32 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

So I'm not one that thinks we should hire May and I think the version of Fran at Iowa is a good comp, but isn't Fran at Iowa with IU resources Tom Crean?

So if may could find a bit more consistency than Crean that would likely be a really good tenure, yeah? 

The Crean comp is good. And I’m not a May guy either. If Pearl, Oats, etc say no, the. Yes try May. Ironically I feel like the NIL/Portal era would fit Crean roster turnover style. He was good at shorter recruitments and always had 2-3 transfers. IU NIL game is strong and could have supported it without the drop off we saw from year to year towards the end. 
 

If Dolson hires May he has to require a defensive assistant. Michigan did this with Beilein midway through his tenure. And it worked well for them. 
 

At the end of the day I have no clue what is going to happen. I just know there needs to be structural and cultural changes to the program on how it goes about its business and it’s playing philosophy. If Woodson can do that fantastic let’s go. If he can’t, then go get a guy who can do it. But even Pearl will take 2-3 years to turn it around to be a contender. The roster will be short of talent and you can’t build a contender through massive portal hauls. 

[IUJoe]

25 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

In addition to the defense, I wonder if May is prepared to coach in the IU pressure cooker. It takes a special personality.

Dusty May opened the door, looked at Anna and broke down into tears. 

It's March 2018. May had signed FAU's contract that made him a first-time head coach just a few hours earlier. 

And here he was, bawling in a hotel room, trying to figure out a way to back out of the deal.

“I walk in the room and I started crying and said, 'I just committed career suicide. I'm not good enough. I can't do this,'" May told CBS Sports. 

May admits to having an impulsive personality. He wanted the job, then he didn't want the job. He signed the contract before ever seeing FAU's basketball facilities. Once he did, panic set in. 

The meeting with athletic director Brian White, who at that point wasn't even a week into his new job at FAU, was so good that May agreed to be the Owls' coach just hours after arriving in Boca Raton, Florida.

When I feel something in my stomach I go with it," May said. 

May had no agent, so almost purely on vibes and the temperature in the air, he put pen to paper.

"At that point, I still haven't been to our gym, our weight room, our locker room," May said.

When he saw the gym, the weight room, the locker room, May was cloaked in remorse. He tried not to show it on his face.

May was freaking out internally. He wanted to go back to Florida and stay on as Mike White's top assistant. 

"I knew we just had a lot of work even to fill a competitive roster," May said. "I would've left and went back to Gainesville after signing the contract if it wasn't for my relationship with Mike and his family."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dusty-may-wanted-to-quit-hours-after-signing-fau-contract-now-hes-coached-owls-to-improbable-final-four-run/

Probably takes a lot of confidence in himself to admit all that for a story in the national media.

[tdhoosier]

24 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

In addition to the defense, I wonder if May is prepared to coach in the IU pressure cooker. It takes a special personality.

Dusty May opened the door, looked at Anna and broke down into tears. 

It's March 2018. May had signed FAU's contract that made him a first-time head coach just a few hours earlier. 

And here he was, bawling in a hotel room, trying to figure out a way to back out of the deal.

“I walk in the room and I started crying and said, 'I just committed career suicide. I'm not good enough. I can't do this,'" May told CBS Sports. 

May admits to having an impulsive personality. He wanted the job, then he didn't want the job. He signed the contract before ever seeing FAU's basketball facilities. Once he did, panic set in. 

The meeting with athletic director Brian White, who at that point wasn't even a week into his new job at FAU, was so good that May agreed to be the Owls' coach just hours after arriving in Boca Raton, Florida.

When I feel something in my stomach I go with it," May said. 

May had no agent, so almost purely on vibes and the temperature in the air, he put pen to paper.

"At that point, I still haven't been to our gym, our weight room, our locker room," May said.

When he saw the gym, the weight room, the locker room, May was cloaked in remorse. He tried not to show it on his face.

May was freaking out internally. He wanted to go back to Florida and stay on as Mike White's top assistant. 

"I knew we just had a lot of work even to fill a competitive roster," May said. "I would've left and went back to Gainesville after signing the contract if it wasn't for my relationship with Mike and his family."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dusty-may-wanted-to-quit-hours-after-signing-fau-contract-now-hes-coached-owls-to-improbable-final-four-run/

Maybe. Maybe not.

But IMO, that story isn’t a negatively reflection on what he can and can not handle. If anything, it shows grit and perseverance. It shows that he built a final four team at a school with horrible facilities and resources.  

[Seeking6]

11 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

Say you haven’t followed recruiting without saying you haven’t followed recruiting. 😂 

Holy cripes I’ve never heard anything like this before from an avid fan of college anything about recruiting and attending important HS games.

Remind me how many games Woodson showed up to Ke'lel Ware in high school?

I'm not going to respond to all the quotes but geez guys. One game and you guys go 10 page postal on it? 

[MrsStoller]

42 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

It’s not uncommon for AD’s to call a meeting to tell a coach they aren’t meeting expectations so they can try and adjust. It’s no different than getting called in by a boss in any other industry.

Thank you. I think I have been overthinking this whole situation 😂 (hopeful this wasn’t the first meeting to address expectations).

[Feathery]

Just now, Seeking6 said:

Remind me how many games Woodson showed up to Ke'lel Ware in high school?

I'm not going to respond to all the quotes but geez guys. One game and you guys go 10 page postal on it? 

Woodson is good at Portal recruiting. What team has been successful with massive portal hauls?

No team taking 5 portal players have the success that will warrant a 5th year. As last I looked none were going to be in the tournament. So if that’s the plan, it’s a bad one and we are just spinning our wheels.
 

He has to land multi-year players even in the portal. Problem is he doesn’t have multiple years left to coach to see the project through. He isn’t going to get an extension and his contract length is going to be a problem moving forward. He is in a lame duck situation. I don’t envy Dolsons position and I don’t like Woodson being in this situation either. Even if he made the bed he is laying in. 

[Boiler Sam]

8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Maybe. Maybe not.

But IMO, that story isn’t a negatively reflection on what he can and can not handle. If anything, it shows grit and perseverance. It shows that he built a final four team at a school with horrible facilities and resources.  

Seems to be a man with character and integrity. 

[NotIThatLives]

12 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Remind me how many games Woodson showed up to Ke'lel Ware in high school?

I'm not going to respond to all the quotes but geez guys. One game and you guys go 10 page postal on it? 

It's first round of sectional.  Like 2 more sectional nights to go.  It's not like these kids hit campus next month or even next year.  

It's over the top.  Ridiculous.   And this is the behavior that gets made fun of by local and national media.  It's what gets trilly troll posting IU about just for kicks.  

[DC2345]

10 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

It's first round of sectional.  Like 2 more sectional nights to go.  It's not like these kids hit campus next month or even next year.  

It's over the top.  Ridiculous.   And this is the behavior that gets made fun of by local and national media.  It's what gets trilly troll posting IU about just for kicks.  

It's not but if you think it's not a big deal than you're just wrong. It's a really bad look for an already sinking ship

[Stlboiler23]

12 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Sorry, but that’s just satire, right? Painter went to see prospective recruits just to troll IU fans on social media?

Had to be satire. No way he actually believes that. 

[KoB2011]

12 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

It's not but if you think it's not a big deal than you're just wrong. It's a really bad look for an already sinking ship

That's the thing to me, maybe if we were rolling like Purdue he could get away with it (although Painter was there).

But when things are going poorly, there are questions about your future and the teams future, and you just don't show up? People have bad stretches in any career, but how they respond is very telling and impacts how their employment is treated. Mike Woodson's response to this season has been awful and it somehow keeps getting worse with the lack of accountability and the lack of action taken to fix it. 

[HoosierDom]

42 minutes ago, Feathery said:

The Crean comp is good. And I’m not a May guy either. If Pearl, Oats, etc say no, the. Yes try May. Ironically I feel like the NIL/Portal era would fit Crean roster turnover style. He was good at shorter recruitments and always had 2-3 transfers. IU NIL game is strong and could have supported it without the drop off we saw from year to year towards the end. 
 

If Dolson hires May he has to require a defensive assistant. Michigan did this with Beilein midway through his tenure. And it worked well for them. 
 

At the end of the day I have no clue what is going to happen. I just know there needs to be structural and cultural changes to the program on how it goes about its business and it’s playing philosophy. If Woodson can do that fantastic let’s go. If he can’t, then go get a guy who can do it. But even Pearl will take 2-3 years to turn it around to be a contender. The roster will be short of talent and you can’t build a contender through massive portal hauls. 

Didn't Texas Tech have back-to-back deep tourney runs with basically an entire starting 5 of transfers? I haven't taken the time to check my memory there, but I think it was something like that. That was back when there weren't nearly as many players transferring each year. 

With the right coach (maybe even with the wrong coach), next year's roster could have Galloway, Reneau, MM, Cupps and Liam. Add Sparks and Leal for depth and veteran presence, and that's not a bad start. There are holes, but in this age, we should be able to fill those holes.

[tdhoosier]

54 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Remind me how many games Woodson showed up to Ke'lel Ware in high school?

I'm not going to respond to all the quotes but geez guys. One game and you guys go 10 page postal on it? 

Remind me of how Woody didn't make effort to go to the Indiana state tournament last year because he was on vacation when 20 other college coaches were there. 

And then remind me of how Woody has one recruit signed for next year. 

And then remind me of how we maybe....mayyybe....have 4 guys from this roster coming back next year. 

I guess we'll just rebuild through the portal and act shocked when the players just can't get over the hump because they can't pick up the defense....or the offense because this staff has pieced together a systematically inexperienced roster once again. 

You may view it as an isolated event that we are over-reacting about, but to me this a continuing trend of this staff not doing what they need to do in order to build a strong and sustainable program. 

 I think that I've officially gone to the dark side. I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel. 

 

Edited March 1 by tdhoosier

[NotIThatLives]

30 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

It's not but if you think it's not a big deal than you're just wrong. It's a really bad look for an already sinking ship

Maybe it's indicitive of something.  You seem to be in the know.  It's either already sunk or it's not.  That's what we are all trying to figure it out.  

Pretty sure only in Indiana is the first night of the state tournament magnified like this fan base magnifies it.  If you can't admit that, then we have no middle ground here and I'm totally fine with that.  I'm not calling it nothing but some of these takes are the equal opposite of Goodman troll takes. 

And maybe this thing already is 90% over and they know it.  You tell me. 

[NotIThatLives]

13 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Didn't Texas Tech have back-to-back deep tourney runs with basically an entire starting 5 of transfers? I haven't taken the time to check my memory there, but I think it was something like that. That was back when there weren't nearly as many players transferring each year. 

With the right coach (maybe even with the wrong coach), next year's roster could have Galloway, Reneau, MM, Cupps and Liam. Add Sparks and Leal for depth and veteran presence, and that's not a bad start. There are holes, but in this age, we should be able to fill those holes.

Yep.  Pearl and many other coaches would bring at least a few guys with them.  The only problem would be admissions.  Pretty sure Auburn let's about anyone in.  

[NotIThatLives]

12 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Remind me of how Woody didn't make effort to go to the Indiana state tournament last year because he was on vacation when 20 other college coaches were there. 

And then remind me of how Woody has one recruit signed for next year. 

And then remind me of how we maybe....mayyybe....have 4 guys from this roster coming back next year. 

I guess we'll just rebuild through the portal and act shocked when the players just can't get over the hump because they can't pick up the defense....or the offense because this staff has pieced together a systematically inexperienced roster once again. 

You may view it as an isolated event that we are over-reacting about, but to me this a continuing trend of this staff not doing what they need to do in order to build a strong and sustainable program. 

 I think that I've officially gone to the dark side. I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel. 

 

Woody sat front row next to Bruce Pearl, Izzo, Self, and Painter in the state championship game.  Come on guys.  This is just piling on now.  At least be accurate.  

[DC2345]

4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Maybe it's indicitive of something.  You seem to be in the know.  It's either already sunk or it's not.  That's what we are all trying to figure it out.  

Pretty sure only in Indiana is the first night of the state tournament magnified like this fan base magnifies it.  If you can't admit that, then we have no middle ground here and I'm totally fine with that.  I'm not calling it nothing but some of these takes are the equal opposite of Goodman troll takes. 

And maybe this thing already is 90% over and they know it.  You tell me. 

It's because these are the types of recruits that Indiana should be landing but Woodson isn't putting in the work. Then these guys go to X, Y, Z school and make IU look stupid for multiple years. When a coach isn't able to land in state kids because they are lazy it's a serious problem. Also you never know when a recruit will get beat. For example Painter went to watch Sisley and his team got beat so now IU looks bad compared to Purdue by everyone around the state. It's a domino affect. 

[NotIThatLives]

My bad. Calipari, not Self.  How in the world did Kansas get Flory if they didn't go to every single high school basketball game of his.  Unreal the laziness of Kansas recruiting.  

 

[Feathery]

17 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Didn't Texas Tech have back-to-back deep tourney runs with basically an entire starting 5 of transfers? I haven't taken the time to check my memory there, but I think it was something like that. That was back when there weren't nearly as many players transferring each year. 

With the right coach (maybe even with the wrong coach), next year's roster could have Galloway, Reneau, MM, Cupps and Liam. Add Sparks and Leal for depth and veteran presence, and that's not a bad start. There are holes, but in this age, we should be able to fill those holes.

Texas tech has only made one final four. They did have a lot of transfers but I dont remember the amount. They also fell off the next year and won 18 games. Then 18 the following year as well. That was also pre-NIL. This season there was a stat that was posted on social media that every team that took more than 4 were not projected to make the tournament. 
 

Now with NIL the top teams can offer money and a chance to win by supplementing. So IU in order to have a chance to land the pieces to be a contender next season will need to raise a boatload of cash and overspend. Forget the $6 mil they spent for this year, going to have to be substantially more imo. 

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, DC2345 said:

It's because these are the types of recruits that Indiana should be landing but Woodson isn't putting in the work. Then these guys go to X, Y, Z school and make IU look stupid for multiple years. When a coach isn't able to land in state kids because they are lazy it's a serious problem. Also you never know when a recruit will get beat. For example Painter went to watch Sisley and his team got beat so now IU looks bad compared to Purdue by everyone around the state. It's a domino affect. 

I have middle ground here.  There are times the lazy narrative does seem to stick and seems accurate.  I see Walsh coaching huddles and every once in a while another assistant seems to cheer or instruct.  It's one of those questions are appearances 90% reality here?  And when you lay out the results, the narrative starts to stick.  And with the fan base, you gotta win the optics, even if there are 10 other fish in the frying pan and other factors at play.  @BGleas will tell ya about the rumor mill when he was with the Celtics, said they were wildly inaccurate and hilarious from the inside looking out.  

So question we would all like to know.  Is he back or not?  Has a decision been made?  If he's coaching for his life he should still be recruiting like it too.  Like I said, maybe it is indicitive of something.  

[NotIThatLives]

7 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Texas tech has only made one final four. They did have a lot of transfers but I dont remember the amount. They also fell off the next year and won 18 games. Then 18 the following year as well. That was also pre-NIL. This season there was a stat that was posted on social media that every team that took more than 4 were not projected to make the tournament. 
 

Now with NIL the top teams can offer money and a chance to win by supplementing. So IU in order to have a chance to land the pieces to be a contender next season will need to raise a boatload of cash and overspend. Forget the $6 mil they spent for this year, going to have to be substantially more imo. 

IU's roster entire collectively makes 6 mil?  Any component coach could come rebuild here instantly if that is accurate.   

[NotIThatLives]

9 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

My bad. Calipari, not Self.  How in the world did Kansas get Flory if they didn't go to every single high school basketball game of his.  Unreal the laziness of Kansas recruiting.  

 

Oh and Calipari.   What a loser for not landing a single recruit at the Indiana high school 4 a championship last year.  Seriously.   

[Feathery]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

IU's roster entire collectively makes 6 mil?  Any component coach could come rebuild here instantly if that is accurate.   

It was a number I saw a “insider” use for IU. Now that could also mean that it’s 6 mil in total and it covers multiple years. I did see something like a year ago that had IU has the #2 NIL school for basketball in the Big Ten. (Illinois is #1).