Stories That Make You Shake Your Head At The World

[NotIThatLives]

34 minutes ago, rico said:

What's your point?

Use the Military.  They have guys already trained for guard duty/search and seize.  I mean they are doing this kind of thing overseas at their own bases.  Last time I was at Grissom I got checked out.

We are actually having recruitment issues in our forces.  

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

We are actually having recruitment issues in our forces.  

Gee, I wonder why... 

[rico]

16 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Sure, we got married here in Manhattan city hall and had to go through a metal detector. It makes sense. But do I then have to go through a metal detector to go to church, the bakery, the liquor store, the bookstore?

I have to stop and be patted down because Barney Fife can’t go to the Subway to pick up a sandwich w/o carrying several guns? F*ck that. I shouldn’t have to give up my freedoms, b/c Barney Fife is too scared to live his life w/o carrying. 

We are talking about schools here.

[IUFLA]

9 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

We are self moderating well and I appreciate that, and this is not in reaction to any recent posts, but if you think you’re gonna say something stupid: delete the post, go tell your dog instead, and enjoy some sunshine. 

You know, I'm truly a live and let live guy. I want people to be happy... Happy people are rarely violent.

But we also have to recognize dangers when we see them... 

[HoosierFaithful]

There are SERIOUS negative effects on students having even a few cops in a school, much less a fully armed presence. But… is anything else going to work that is actually achievable? I am losing hope and am beginning to think not.  

[Lostin76]

6 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Disarming everyday citizens is not an option.  Make them a hell of a lot harder, make longer waiting periods. Any common sense solution and deterent.  

No, it’s not an option to disarm everyday citizens. And I’m not arguing that. But JFC some kind of deterrent and speed bump to unlimited killing would be nice. 

Just make an attempt other than thoughts and prayer. Those clearly don’t work. 

[Seeking6]

100,000 or so public schools in our country. $8Billion a year would cover $75k a year position for trained pro to be in charge of each school.

PS....we've sent about $500B overseas in the last 24 months. Don't tell me we don't have the $. 

[rico]

8 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

We are actually having recruitment issues in our forces.  

Use the forces we have now, National Guards, Reserves.  Hell call the officers that have retired back to active duty.

[Lostin76]

3 minutes ago, rico said:

We are talking about schools here.

Until the next massacre in a church or a Wal Mart. 

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, HoosierFaithful said:

There are SERIOUS negative effects on students having even a few cops in a school, much less a fully armed presence. But… is anything else going to work that is actually achievable? I am losing hope and am beginning to think not.  

There are a lot more negative effects on students in our schools than simple security presence... 

[Seeking6]

Just now, HoosierFaithful said:

There are SERIOUS negative effects on students having even a few cops in a school, much less a fully armed presence. But… is anything else going to work that is actually achievable? I am losing hope and am beginning to think not.  

Honest question. What's worse. A police officer in your school protecting the kids or countless bullies who pick on the very kids who ultimately might go down the path of these shootings because of the bullying? I keep saying the same thing. The last 25 years of parenting or adulting hasn't worked. Let's try a new route. 

[rico]

1 minute ago, Lostin76 said:

Until the next massacre in a church or a Wal Mart. 

So we haven't got the school problem figured out yet and you are already looking ahead to the local Walmarts?  I see.

[Lostin76]

Just now, rico said:

So we haven't got the school problem figured out yet and you are already looking ahead to the local Walmarts?  I see.

Sure it’s only a problem in schools. It’s a problem everywhere here. And we don’t care enough to face it. The whole thing is a farce. 

[HoosierFaithful]

The research is pretty clear that more cops in schools don’t really make them safer in any meaningful way and they also increase the school to prison pipeline. 
 

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1163923.pdf

Despite these significant shortcomings, I am not sure I have a better solution. If this is the solution implemented, folks need to give serious consideration to the side effects. Notably - these SRO’s should not be handling disciplinary issues. 

[Lostin76]

1 minute ago, HoosierFaithful said:

The research is pretty clear that more cops in schools don’t really make them safer in any meaningful way and they also increase the school to prison pipeline. 
 

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1163923.pdf

Despite these significant shortcomings, I am not sure I have a better solution. If this is the solution implemented, folks need to give serious consideration to the side effects. Notably - these SRO’s should not be handling disciplinary issues. 

Don’t even get me started on cops in a schools in a big city. City kids freaking HATE cops. And with good reason. The quality of cops in our country is also a problem. Police forces tend to attract the “thin blue line” or Punisher decal types, which is not helpful. Tiny men with huge ego problems. 

I still think about the cops in my hometown growing up as the exception. The chief was a big, booming voiced black dude that everyone loved. He kept a tight rein on his cops and we did not fear them. We knew they were firm, but fair. They didn’t harass us or abuse us b/c of their own mental shortcomings. 

We need cops like that in schools. I know they exist, but I also know they are the exception. 

 

[NotIThatLives]

53 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

There are SERIOUS negative effects on students having even a few cops in a school, much less a fully armed presence. But… is anything else going to work that is actually achievable? I am losing hope and am beginning to think not.  

I live a mile north of Noblesville West Middle School and there's four or five cops out there directing traffic in the mornings I don't think the kids are afraid of cops.  Not to mention I was a teacher for 10 years and we had cops in our building all the time.  The good resource officers become a very good role model to the kids.

[HoosierFaithful]

That's a great anecdote, and I'm happy for that experience for them, but it unfortunately just isn't reality.

[NotIThatLives]

36 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Don’t even get me started on cops in a schools in a big city. City kids freaking HATE cops. And with good reason. The quality of cops in our country is also a problem. Police forces tend to attract the “thin blue line” or Punisher decal types, which is not helpful. Tiny men with huge ego problems. 

I still think about the cops in my hometown growing up as the exception. The chief was a big, booming voiced black dude that everyone loved. He kept a tight rein on his cops and we did not fear them. We knew they were firm, but fair. They didn’t harass us or abuse us b/c of their own mental shortcomings. 

We need cops like that in schools. I know they exist, but I also know they are the exception. 

 

I work with impd guys now on about a daily basis and there's a ton of good dudes and women.  Was just having a great conversation with one two days ago and he was talking about how their job is to de-escalate situations not to put people in jail.

Even dealing with state cops, they have changed.  A lot more good out there than bad.  NYPD has you skewed. 

[Lostin76]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

I work with impd guys now on about a daily basis and there's a ton of good dudes and women.  Was just having a great conversation with one two days ago and he was talking about how their job is to de-escalate situations not to put people in jail.

Even dealing with state cops, they have changed.  A lot more good out there than bad.  NYPD has you skewed. 

My friend, I think you are right. Living here with these cops has made me so jaded.

I apologize for letting that bleed so heavily into my comments on <checks notes> a basketball forum.

I get that it’s offputting, but it is also difficult to live somewhere with such an antagonistic relationship between the cops and the public. AND that relationship is very close, like bumping up against each other close 24/7 on the sidewalks, in the subway. 

[IUFLA]

15 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

That's a great anecdote, and I'm happy for that experience for them, but it unfortunately just isn't reality.

Uh... @NotIThatLives saw it, and lived it... I think that's about as "real" as it gets...

I'm sure in many inner city schools cops or SROs ARE hated... People who're involved in wrongdoing don't want anyone that's going to call them on it around...

God forbid a kid bringing weapons or drugs to school have to experience the consequences of their actions

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by IUFLA

[Lostin76]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Uh... @NotIThatLives saw it, and lived it... I think that's about as "real" as it gets...

I'm sure in many inner city schools cops or SROs ARE hated... People who're involved in wrongdoing don't want anyone that's going to call them on it around...

God forbid a kid bringing weapons or drugs to school have to experience the consequences of their actions

 

So inner city school kids are automatically “involved in wrongdoing.” Oof, that’s not good. 

I’ve worked with so many amazing kids stuck in the “inner city schools” as a volunteer photographer at an art non-profit.  Really good and talented kids, not bangers or thugs. Good, curious, fearless kids that make me hopeful for our future.

 

[HoosierFaithful]

16 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Uh... @NotIThatLives saw it, and lived it... I think that's about as "real" as it gets...

I'm sure in many inner city schools cops or SROs ARE hated... People who're involved in wrongdoing don't want anyone that's going to call them on it around...

God forbid a kid bringing weapons or drugs to school have to experience the consequences of their actions

 

I mean, if we are substituting qualitative anecdotes for quantitative data and calling them the same thing, we aren’t having a real conversation. I’m glad that was his experience. It’s useful. It’s still an anecdote against empirical, peer reviewed data. 

[NotIThatLives]

35 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

That's a great anecdote, and I'm happy for that experience for them, but it unfortunately just isn't reality.

OK. 

 

[IUFLA]

Just now, Lostin76 said:

So inner city school kids are automatically “involved in wrongdoing.” Oof, that’s not good. 

I’ve worked with so many amazing kids stuck in the “inner city schools” as a volunteer photographer at an art non-profit.  Really good and talented kids, not bangers or thugs. Good, curious, fearless kids that make me hopeful for our future.

 

I didn't say that, at all...

This was what the study @HoosierFaithfulcited..

"Although the original intent of SROs was to create a safer school environment, an unintended effect of placing law enforcement within schools has been increased opportuni­ties for negative interactions between youth and police. This has resulted in an increase in youth being referred to the juvenile justice system for assault, weapons, and drug offenses"

I in no way inferred it was even a majority...

 

[5fouls]

Unfortunately, if we put armed security guards in schools, some clueless kid with a water pistol will get killed by the guard, and then we have a totally different form of public outrage.  The reality is that these shootings are not being performed using handguns or shotguns.  The most logical answer to the problem lies within that statement.