High School Hoops

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Ok so it's the same thing or similar to the success or playing up they use in football? From an outsider perspective can't fault a team choosing an easier path that benefits them. Sounds like IHSAA needs to either close that loophole or people will just have to accept it.

It's the same success factor. 

[mrflynn03]

5 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Ok so it's the same thing or similar to the success or playing up they use in football? From an outsider perspective can't fault a team choosing an easier path that benefits them. Sounds like IHSAA needs to either close that loophole or people will just have to accept it.

They went from 1A to 3A.  They avoided 2A because they struggle against Linton and didn't want to meet them in the tournament. 

That's how I understand it anyway. 

[rico]

51 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Meanwhile, up north…

In 4A Ft Wayne Wayne HS wins its first sectional in 29 years by beating Homestead.

FW Northside beats Northrop to win in 3A

In 3A 3rd ranked Norwell is upset by Peru.

In 2A Blackhawk Christian, coached by former Hoosier Matt Roth, wins its 6th straight sectional.

In 1A Southport beats Canterbury to advance 

FW North over FW Northrop is 4A

Southwood beat Canterbury

* Us 2 northern guys have to correct each other.

[btownqb]

Norwell going down, Mish Marian goes down. 

The path for NorthWood became a easier, outside of SouthBend Wash. 

Crazy to see Scottsburg #3 in 3A... Top 32 overall. 

They get Greensburg, Stacey Meyer is a machine... Scottsburg hasn't been on this stage either. I guess they do have to beat Corydon first. 

[rico]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

 

The path for NorthWood became a easier, outside of SouthBend Wash. 

 

NorthWood hasn't won the sectional yet.  Still have to beat a dang fine West Noble team.  And don't sleep on FW Concordia in 3A if they can get by FW Dwenger.

[IUJoe]

4 hours ago, rico said:

NorthWood hasn't won the sectional yet.  Still have to beat a dang fine West Noble team.  And don't sleep on FW Concordia in 3A if they can get by FW Dwenger.

Yeah, Concordia is peaking at the right time.

[Danomatic]

At the half Brownstown 38 - Southwestern 15

[Danomatic]

Final: Brownstown 72 - Southwestern 42

Benter with 22 points 

[rico]

On 3/5/2023 at 4:12 PM, IUJoe said:

Yeah, Concordia is peaking at the right time.

Their peak ended tonight.

[btownqb]

Love the smile!

[btownqb]

2 hours ago, Danomatic said:

Final: Brownstown 72 - Southwestern 42

Benter with 22 points 

Were you there? I was. 

1. Parker Hehman was fantastic 

2. I think we are becoming more and more comfortable defensively. Really good on that end tonight. 

3. Forgot how much I liked that gym. Also.. we parked WAY out... on the elementary school playground lol... they had a shuttle bus!!! Two of them, couldn't believe it. So cool. 

[Danomatic]

39 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Were you there? I was. 

1. Parker Hehman was fantastic 

2. I think we are becoming more and more comfortable defensively. Really good on that end tonight. 

3. Forgot how much I liked that gym. Also.. we parked WAY out... on the elementary school playground lol... they had a shuttle bus!!! Two of them, couldn't believe it. So cool. 

Yes, Hehman had a huge first half. They looked good, and played well defensively. I guess that I should’ve asked you if you were going… maybe one day I can put a face with the name. lol

[btownqb]

7 hours ago, Danomatic said:

Yes, Hehman had a huge first half. They looked good, and played well defensively. I guess that I should’ve asked you if you were going… maybe one day I can put a face with the name. lol

I did see one guy decked out in all Madison gear walking in.. he officiates a lot of JV basketball. Can't remember his name, good dude though.  

Where did you sit?

[IUJoe]

11 hours ago, rico said:

Their peak ended tonight.

Haha, I jinxed them.  One of those teams that beat almost all the really good teams they played, but struggled with the teams they were supposed to beat.

[btownqb]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:59 AM, rico said:

NorthWood hasn't won the sectional yet.  Still have to beat a dang fine West Noble team.  And don't sleep on FW Concordia in 3A if they can get by FW Dwenger.

NorthWood won by like 35. 

[Danomatic]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

I did see one guy decked out in all Madison gear walking in.. he officiates a lot of JV basketball. Can't remember his name, good dude though.  

Where did you sit?

I don’t wear Madison gear if they aren’t playing, so it definitely wasn’t me. I sat with a couple of guys who have boys that play for Southwestern, a few rows up behind their bench. Great environment!

[rico]

19 minutes ago, IUJoe said:

Haha, I jinxed them.  One of those teams that beat almost all the really good teams they played, but struggled with the teams they were supposed to beat.

I guess Dwenger is peaking at the right time?  lol

[rico]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

NorthWood won by like 35. 

NorthWood played West Noble earlier in the year and won by 8.

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, Danomatic said:

I don’t wear Madison gear if they aren’t playing, so it definitely wasn’t me. I sat with a couple of guys who have boys that play for Southwestern, a few rows up behind their bench. Great environment!

It was. I was impressed by SWs student section. I hope the sectional is there every year, plus I think it's the biggest gym in the sectional. 

Southwesterns shot selection early in the game kind of expedited the inevitable, imo. I do know they like to play fast, hectic. 

[Danomatic]

13 hours ago, btownqb said:

It was. I was impressed by SWs student section. I hope the sectional is there every year, plus I think it's the biggest gym in the sectional. 

Southwesterns shot selection early in the game kind of expedited the inevitable, imo. I do know they like to play fast, hectic. 

They were a good host school. I still can’t believe that they beat Scottsburg. Their only hope against Brownstown was to get hot from deep early, and they were anything but that. I credit them for playing well over the last few years, and think they’ll still be alright next season, but they get young fast. They have some decent players(transfers from Madison), but very little varsity experience coming back. I think you guys run away in that sectional next year too. I know that things can change between now and then… but I can’t see the Braves not winning it handedly again next year. The following season may be different. 

[btownqb]

Check this out... 

You guys want bigger crowds? This would help... A LOT. The regional/semi state traveling distances absolutely have played a role in the crowd sizes. Which.... SW Hanover/Seymour couldn't have been more packed on Monday night, but.... this idea is incredible. I love it. 

Seymour, Washington, and Charlestown would be BUMPING. This was a post on the John Harrell website, and I'm stealing it.... I love it. 

 

 

 

 

When the IHSAA sent the survey out on the new state tournament format last year, there was a mention that games from multiple classes could be played at the same site. IMO, one of the big misses of the "new" regional format is that the IHSAA didn't take a chance to better "regionalize" the tournament and reduce some of the long travel distances present by taking four teams to one site, then just drawing two games, and sending everyone home. I otherwise really like the format change; I just think the current way is a pretty strange way to do it, and leaves some benefits on the table.

So, an exercise: Pair neighboring sectionals together (e.g., 1 vs. 2, 3 vs. 4, etc.) similar to how softball is done, and assign schools to one of 16 regional sites once pairings are complete. If you want to streamline this process, you could just as well pair 1A and 2A at a "small school" site and 3A and 4A at a "big school" site, assigning all 64 sectional winners to a regional location when sites are selected. The big key is that instead of having four regionals in each class that each produce two winners, you just have … eight regionals. It's mostly a thought experiment because I think the association is pretty committed to this idea of a blind draw for two regional pairings, but this is what I'd personally like to see in place as a process improvement.

Some benefits I see with this plan:
- Overall, decreasing travel for teams should increase attendance, which improves the student-athlete experience and increases revenue for the association.
- Creating tighter "regions" increases the chance that locally relevant games are played at the regional rounds (e.g., a Mishawaka vs. Penn rivalry game).
- Having eight regionals in each class instead of four removes a draw from the state tournament process, and makes it clearer for participating schools who's "in your regional".
- Pairing multiple classes at the same regional site allows for neighboring schools to play at the same regional site in some situations (e.g., I've assigned Tri-County and Twin Lakes to the same site).

Some notes for this exercise:
- I wanted to minimize the number of changes from the existing alignment and regional sites; I would definitely make some additional changes to the alignment, but wanted to keep things steady to avoid too much chatter about who's willing to host (we know the 16 current regional hosts are).
- Kept regional sites the same where possible. In an ideal world, this format change would allow the IHSAA to pick additional sites that may not be in play because they don't want to host a regional for a class their school doesn't play in, but I didn't get into making changes there (e.g., Elkhart and Warsaw as host sites instead of South Bend Washington and Triton).
- A concept I really like is a "Super Regional", where all four classes would play at one site on the state finals schedule. I do understand that it may be difficult to find host schools for this, but I think it would be great for fans.
- Teams get to play at home in the regional round, consistent with current protocol. Better assignments of start times could allow you to restrict teams from playing at home AND also give their fans and admins a chance to watch (e.g., South Bend Washington could play at 11 a.m. in the Triton regional, then host a 5 p.m. and 8 p.m. regional).
- Matchups are grouped by paired sites (e.g., 1 vs. 2, 17 vs. 18, 33 vs. 34 and 49 vs. 50 will each be assigned to either Michigan City or North Judson) and assigned based on geography and expected attendance factors, so not necessarily 1A and 2A, then 3A and 4A, assigned to certain sites.

For better sectional-to-sectional pairings, make the following changes:
- Reorder 13, 14 and 15 in 4A to pair Columbus North and Jennings County, and pair Bloomington North with Evansville Reitz.
- Reorder 22 and 23 in 3A to pair Fort Wayne Dwenger and Peru, and pair Twin Lakes and Delta (this is the worst alignment to deal with for this exercise because of how the IHSAA has set up those sectionals).
- Reorder 36 and 37 in 2A to pair Westview and Fort Wayne Blackhawk, and pair Lewis Cass and Carroll (Flora).
- Reorder 52 and 53 in 1A to pair Bethany Christian and Southwood, and pair Tri-County and Fountain Central.

For better geographic balance, make the following two changes to host sites:
- Replaced Lapel with Huntington to ensure there's a greater Fort Wayne regional.
- Replaced Loogootee with Charlestown, as 3 of 4 current regional sites in the far south are in Southwest Indiana versus one in Southeast Indiana (Charlestown hosts a girls regional) -- you could also just replace whichever one of Washington and Southridge hosts a sectional in that year and retain Loogootee.

Anyway, enough talking. The matchups as I'd draw them, with regional sites assigned as I would if I were in charge:

at MICHIGAN CITY
3A: Lake Station vs. John Glenn
4A: Hammond Central vs. Chesterton

at NORTH JUDSON
1A: Kouts vs. Marquette Catholic
2A: Gary 21st Century vs. North Judson

at SOUTH BEND WASHINGTON
3A: South Bend Washington vs. NorthWood
4A: Mishawaka vs. Penn

at TRITON
1A: Bethany Christian vs. Southwood
2A: Westview vs. Fort Wayne Blackhawk

at FRANKFORT
1A: Tri-County vs. Fountain Central
3A: Twin Lakes vs. Delta

at LOGANSPORT
2A: Lewis Cass vs. Carroll (Flora)
4A: Kokomo vs. Noblesville

at HUNTINGTON
3A: Fort Wayne Dwenger vs. Peru
4A: Fort Wayne North vs. Fort Wayne Wayne

at NEW CASTLE
1A: Liberty Christian vs. Blue River
2A: Tipton vs. Wapahani

at LEBANON
2A: Park Tudor vs. Parke Heritage
4A: Ben Davis vs. Brownsburg

at MARTINSVILLE
1A: Bloomfield vs. Bethesda Christian
3A: Danville vs. Indian Creek

at GREENFIELD-CENTRAL
2A: Northeastern vs. Indianapolis Scecina
3A: Guerin Catholic vs. Beech Grove

at SOUTHPORT
1A: Indianapolis Lutheran vs. Jac-Cen-Del
4A: New Palestine vs. Indianapolis Cathedral

at CHARLESTOWN
1A: Rock Creek Academy vs. New Washington
3A: Greensburg vs. Scottsburg

at SEYMOUR
2A: North Decatur vs. Brownstown Central
4A: Columbus North vs. Jennings County

at SOUTHRIDGE
1A: Loogootee vs. Northeast Dubois
4A: Bloomington North vs. Evansville Reitz

at WASHINGTON
2A: Linton-Stockton vs. Forest Park
3A: North Daviess vs. Gibson Southern

Edited March 8, 2023 by btownqb

[5fouls]

45 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Check this out... 

You guys want bigger crowds? This would help... A LOT. The regional/semi state traveling distances absolutely have played a role in the crowd sizes. Which.... SW Hanover/Seymour couldn't have been more packed on Monday night, but.... this idea is incredible. I love it. 

Seymour, Washington, and Charlestown would be BUMPING. This was a post on the John Harrell website, and I'm stealing it.... I love it. 

 

 

 

 

When the IHSAA sent the survey out on the new state tournament format last year, there was a mention that games from multiple classes could be played at the same site. IMO, one of the big misses of the "new" regional format is that the IHSAA didn't take a chance to better "regionalize" the tournament and reduce some of the long travel distances present by taking four teams to one site, then just drawing two games, and sending everyone home. I otherwise really like the format change; I just think the current way is a pretty strange way to do it, and leaves some benefits on the table.

So, an exercise: Pair neighboring sectionals together (e.g., 1 vs. 2, 3 vs. 4, etc.) similar to how softball is done, and assign schools to one of 16 regional sites once pairings are complete. If you want to streamline this process, you could just as well pair 1A and 2A at a "small school" site and 3A and 4A at a "big school" site, assigning all 64 sectional winners to a regional location when sites are selected. The big key is that instead of having four regionals in each class that each produce two winners, you just have … eight regionals. It's mostly a thought experiment because I think the association is pretty committed to this idea of a blind draw for two regional pairings, but this is what I'd personally like to see in place as a process improvement.

Some benefits I see with this plan:
- Overall, decreasing travel for teams should increase attendance, which improves the student-athlete experience and increases revenue for the association.
- Creating tighter "regions" increases the chance that locally relevant games are played at the regional rounds (e.g., a Mishawaka vs. Penn rivalry game).
- Having eight regionals in each class instead of four removes a draw from the state tournament process, and makes it clearer for participating schools who's "in your regional".
- Pairing multiple classes at the same regional site allows for neighboring schools to play at the same regional site in some situations (e.g., I've assigned Tri-County and Twin Lakes to the same site).

Some notes for this exercise:
- I wanted to minimize the number of changes from the existing alignment and regional sites; I would definitely make some additional changes to the alignment, but wanted to keep things steady to avoid too much chatter about who's willing to host (we know the 16 current regional hosts are).
- Kept regional sites the same where possible. In an ideal world, this format change would allow the IHSAA to pick additional sites that may not be in play because they don't want to host a regional for a class their school doesn't play in, but I didn't get into making changes there (e.g., Elkhart and Warsaw as host sites instead of South Bend Washington and Triton).
- A concept I really like is a "Super Regional", where all four classes would play at one site on the state finals schedule. I do understand that it may be difficult to find host schools for this, but I think it would be great for fans.
- Teams get to play at home in the regional round, consistent with current protocol. Better assignments of start times could allow you to restrict teams from playing at home AND also give their fans and admins a chance to watch (e.g., South Bend Washington could play at 11 a.m. in the Triton regional, then host a 5 p.m. and 8 p.m. regional).
- Matchups are grouped by paired sites (e.g., 1 vs. 2, 17 vs. 18, 33 vs. 34 and 49 vs. 50 will each be assigned to either Michigan City or North Judson) and assigned based on geography and expected attendance factors, so not necessarily 1A and 2A, then 3A and 4A, assigned to certain sites.

For better sectional-to-sectional pairings, make the following changes:
- Reorder 13, 14 and 15 in 4A to pair Columbus North and Jennings County, and pair Bloomington North with Evansville Reitz.
- Reorder 22 and 23 in 3A to pair Fort Wayne Dwenger and Peru, and pair Twin Lakes and Delta (this is the worst alignment to deal with for this exercise because of how the IHSAA has set up those sectionals).
- Reorder 36 and 37 in 2A to pair Westview and Fort Wayne Blackhawk, and pair Lewis Cass and Carroll (Flora).
- Reorder 52 and 53 in 1A to pair Bethany Christian and Southwood, and pair Tri-County and Fountain Central.

For better geographic balance, make the following two changes to host sites:
- Replaced Lapel with Huntington to ensure there's a greater Fort Wayne regional.
- Replaced Loogootee with Charlestown, as 3 of 4 current regional sites in the far south are in Southwest Indiana versus one in Southeast Indiana (Charlestown hosts a girls regional) -- you could also just replace whichever one of Washington and Southridge hosts a sectional in that year and retain Loogootee.

Anyway, enough talking. The matchups as I'd draw them, with regional sites assigned as I would if I were in charge:

at MICHIGAN CITY
3A: Lake Station vs. John Glenn
4A: Hammond Central vs. Chesterton

at NORTH JUDSON
1A: Kouts vs. Marquette Catholic
2A: Gary 21st Century vs. North Judson

at SOUTH BEND WASHINGTON
3A: South Bend Washington vs. NorthWood
4A: Mishawaka vs. Penn

at TRITON
1A: Bethany Christian vs. Southwood
2A: Westview vs. Fort Wayne Blackhawk

at FRANKFORT
1A: Tri-County vs. Fountain Central
3A: Twin Lakes vs. Delta

at LOGANSPORT
2A: Lewis Cass vs. Carroll (Flora)
4A: Kokomo vs. Noblesville

at HUNTINGTON
3A: Fort Wayne Dwenger vs. Peru
4A: Fort Wayne North vs. Fort Wayne Wayne

at NEW CASTLE
1A: Liberty Christian vs. Blue River
2A: Tipton vs. Wapahani

at LEBANON
2A: Park Tudor vs. Parke Heritage
4A: Ben Davis vs. Brownsburg

at MARTINSVILLE
1A: Bloomfield vs. Bethesda Christian
3A: Danville vs. Indian Creek

at GREENFIELD-CENTRAL
2A: Northeastern vs. Indianapolis Scecina
3A: Guerin Catholic vs. Beech Grove

at SOUTHPORT
1A: Indianapolis Lutheran vs. Jac-Cen-Del
4A: New Palestine vs. Indianapolis Cathedral

at CHARLESTOWN
1A: Rock Creek Academy vs. New Washington
3A: Greensburg vs. Scottsburg

at SEYMOUR
2A: North Decatur vs. Brownstown Central
4A: Columbus North vs. Jennings County

at SOUTHRIDGE
1A: Loogootee vs. Northeast Dubois
4A: Bloomington North vs. Evansville Reitz

at WASHINGTON
2A: Linton-Stockton vs. Forest Park
3A: North Daviess vs. Gibson Southern

I love the concept, and wondered why they didn't split classes.  The only thing I dont like about it is putting the 1A matchup in Charlestown. 

Dont get me wrong, it makes sense.  It's just the 1A teams/sectionals in this part of state are not strong.

[btownqb]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I love the concept, and wondered why they didn't split classes.  The only thing I dont like about it is putting the 1A matchup in Charlestown. 

Dont get me wrong, it makes sense.  It's just the 1A teams/sectionals in this part of state are not strong.

Where else would you put that game? 

Having that game there to me is pretty cool. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by btownqb

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

Where else would you put that game? 

As I said, it's the most logical setup, and it works better than having 2A, because Charlestown, as great a gym it is, would likely not have capacity to host 2A as replacement for 1A in this example.

I just want better 1A teams than this scenario provides.  

The other part of it, and this is a little strange, but if my team (Silver Creek) is playing in the regional, part of the experience is the 'road trip'.  Some of that would be lost making a 6 mile trek down the road that is done multiple times a year for different sports.

Greensburg and Scottsburg in Charlestown, heck yeah! 

SC and Greensburg in Charlestown?  I like the idea of that in the Hatchet House.

Rock Creek and New Washington in Charlestown?  Cant get excited about that if it was played in my driveway.

 

 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

As I said, it's the most logical setup, and it works better than having 2A, because Charlestown, as great a gym it is, would likely not have capacity to host 2A as replacement for 1A in this example.

I just want better 1A teams than this scenario provides.  

The other part of it, and this is a little strange, but if my team (Silver Creek) is playing in the regional, part of the experience is the 'road trip'.  Some of that would be lost making a 6 mile trek down the road that is done multiple times a year for different sports.

Greensburg and Scottsburg in Charlestown, heck yeah! 

SC and Greensburg in Charlestown?  I like the idea of that in the Hatchet House.

Rock Creek and New Washington in Charlestown?  Cant get excited about that if it was played in my driveway.

 

 

That game would be at Seymour, in this type of model, or... maybe at like a Columbus North or something. 

I think RC/NW at CT would be very exciting for THEIR fans. Or at least it should be.