IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Everybody knows what bad basketball looks like. Everyone. The difference between coach and fans is that the coach is expected to fix bad basketball when he sees it and teach players how not to play it. And you're of the opinion that Coach Woodson isn't trying to fix it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: And you're of the opinion that Coach Woodson isn't trying to fix it? There are some things I wish he would try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 I think it's as simple as the staff isn't coaching and preparing as well as other schools in the conference. They get outcoached every game and both the coaches and players have said they aren't executing the scouting report and game plan. The Iowa game was a perfect example of getting outcoached in the last minute of the game and those issues have been there for a year and a half now. But then again, I guess it's impossible for them to win without Johnson and Thompson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 13 hours ago, IUFLA said: We'd fought back against Arizona and we're still charging when a God-awful missed goal tending wasn't called... They came down and hit a contested 3 and the rest is history... Point of clarification - after the awful missed goal tending, they then called the awful flop on Malik and then the awful fourth foul on TJD that should have been on Galloway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, IUFLA said: And you're of the opinion that Coach Woodson isn't trying to fix it? I am of the opinion that right now, he and his staff are not doing a good job of fixing it. Every coach tries. I think that if they have any thought of salvaging this season they need to figure things out really quickly though. I may be Nostra-dumb-@ss, but if we fall to 1-7 or 2-6 by the end of Sunday 1/22 (Wisconsin, @Illinois, Michigan St.) then I think we are toast. I believe our only chance at the tournament at that point will be winning 5 games in a row in the BTT if/when we get Xavier and Race back. Now does that mean we still got a chance? Sure. We have just never won that thing in the 25 some odd years we have played in it. There is also the possibility that we suddenly wake up and go on an absolute tear after falling that far, but I place the chances of that at somewhere between slim and none. We were the preseason pick to win this league. Yeah, injuries. Those don't impact the God awful mess we have seen the past few games. They may impact the W's and L's like they did in your Wisconsin example, but I bet if I went and watched their game they were still running their stuff. We aren't. That is why people are so upset. Edited January 13, 2023 by IUCrazy2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 4 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said: 5th year senior. I honestly don't know where you point the finger of blame. Probably at everyone at this point. The players for appearing to not take this very seriously and in this case, the coaching staff who continues to play this level of effort because "these guys give us the best chance to win." I am one of the major ones people were complaining about last night, to the point of directly quoting me and making up what I was saying with that direct quote. Whatever, I will deal. If you are someone who thinks what is up above will get fixed when X and Race return, ok I guess. Ibprefer to believe that what is happening should not be happening no matter who is on the court. I think that some of the public, "woe is me" statements from Woodson are apparently being taken to heart by the players because I have no other explanation for how a still pretty talented team can pack it in like this. Finally, if you are going to be a player arguing with fans online who are complaining about play, you CANNOT be this guy in the next game. Just can't. We are on the same page my friend! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, rico said: There are some things I wish he would try. Like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Yeah, injuries. Those don't impact the God awful mess we have seen the past few games. Then the conversation stops there... Edited January 13, 2023 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: And you're of the opinion that Coach Woodson isn't trying to fix it? Trying and doing are two different things. In fact, it separates the successful coaches from those who aren't successful. Success isn't built solely on intentions. In your reply to blgeas, you asked if everybody competed just because the coach told them to. I'd say if the coach even has to ask a player to compete, then there is a culture issue. But to your point, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I can only hope that he gets this turned around quickly. I will be rooting for him, that's for sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Trying and doing are two different things. In fact, it separates the successful coaches from those who aren't successful. Success isn't built solely on intentions. In your reply to blgeas, you asked if everybody competed just because the coach told them to. I'd say if the coach even has to ask a player to compete, then there is a culture issue. But to your point, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I can only hope that he gets this turned around quickly. I will be rooting for him, that's for sure. You ever tried to motivate people? You have some that don't understand...they think they are playing with the proper intensity...I'd bet Trayce thought that his freshman and sophomore years...But he found another gear...Took him a couple of years...And I've heard Coach Woodson say many times how he's trying to get Malik to play at a higher level... It's not a "culteral issue.: It's an "experince issue." As I said, think Landon Turner...He didn't find his gear until he was a junior...and he had one of the world's greatest motivators on his ass for 2 1/2 years before that. Look at guys like Andrae Patterson or Charlie Miller...They never did get it... I'm really weary of this whole episode. so here's the bottom line... No, I don't think we're playing our best basketball, but to say the injuries have nothing to do with it makes me believe that frustration has clouded you judgement (and I'm not talking about you @tdhoosier) I believe Mike Woodson is trying his ass off every day to motivate kids to play at a higher level... I don't think the kids have given up, nor do I think the coaches have... Better days are ahead...There are a lot of people I respect in this thread saying things I think are simply motivated by frustration...Well, you're not alone...I'm just not going to stretch the truth or bring in BS stories to bolster a position... Edited January 13, 2023 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 19 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Like? -Using Banks and Gunn more. -Changing the offensive scheme. -Changing the defensive scheme. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, rico said: -Using Banks and Gunn more. -Changing the offensive scheme. -Changing the defensive scheme. I think the first one (and don't forget Dunking Duncomb and Anthony Assists) are dependent on what the guys in front of them do. If the light suddenly clicks back on for the Juniors and Seniors, then I don't need to see as much. If we continue to see the play we have out of them, then I want to try the old Bob Knight @ss and bench method of transmission of learning for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, rico said: -Using Banks and Gunn more. -Changing the offensive scheme. -Changing the defensive scheme. He has used CJ more... The thing about Banks is the coaching staff sees him in practice every day...I would think if he's outplaying Geronimo, he'd get time...No? Sometimes it's not the scheme, but the execution right? In this case, as I said, I wish that Trayce would drop brining the ball up the floor...that actually led to a big turn in the PSU game...Down 4, Trayce blocks a shot, brings it down, throws it away to Cam Wynter, and he hits Lundy for a transition three that took it to 7...I thought we panicked through the rest of the half...Momentum is a big thing sometimes... 15 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: I think the first one (and don't forget Dunking Duncomb and Anthony Assists) are dependent on what the guys in front of them do. If the light suddenly clicks back on for the Juniors and Seniors, then I don't need to see as much. If we continue to see the play we have out of them, then I want to try the old Bob Knight @ss and bench method of transmission of learning for a bit. Coach Woodson sees those 2 in practice every day as well...I'm sure he's up on whether they can play better than the guys in front of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Coach Woodson sees those 2 in practice every day as well...I'm sure he's up on whether they can play better than the guys in front of them... Minnesota 1994. I would bet my house that the guys who would be benched are going to "play better" more regularly than the bench guys. There is a reason they are the bench guys....and that fact wouldn't even factor into the decision to do the benching because that isn't the point. You don't have to watch the whole game because I think most of us know about the curb stomping we got in that game. Listen to the first 30 seconds of Coach Knigh and Fish talking. Expectation set, expectation not met, ass to bench. We got rolled. We still went 2-2 in the next 4 games but the level of effort picked up. Sometimes you just lose, it isn't your day. I don't think the effort at Penn State was where it needed to be on Wednesday. Nothing else has worked at this point so take away playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, IUCrazy2 said: Minnesota 1994. I would bet my house that the guys who would be benched are going to "play better" more regularly than the bench guys. There is a reason they are the bench guys....and that fact wouldn't even factor into the decision to do the benching because that isn't the point. You don't have to watch the whole game because I think most of us know about the curb stomping we got in that game. Listen to the first 30 seconds of Coach Knigh and Fish talking. Expectation set, expectation not met, ass to bench. We got rolled. We still went 2-2 in the next 4 games but the level of effort picked up. Sometimes you just lose, it isn't your day. I don't think the effort at Penn State was where it needed to be on Wednesday. Nothing else has worked at this point so take away playing time. So you're ok with sacrificing a game to motivate? I'm ok with that...But I'm not sure everybody else would be...It'd simply be fuel on the fire for some... But it also might placate some Nanas and show them the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So you're ok with sacrificing a game to motivate? I'm ok with that...But I'm not sure everybody else would be...It'd simply be fuel on the fire for some... But it also might placate some Nanas and show them the truth Yeah, I honestly think that if we don't come out with our butts on fire tomorrow that we are going to lose. If I were Woodson and guys are running stuff that we did not practice (something brought up for the past few games) then I have a super quick trigger with them. We may lose, but at least I am exhausting all the avenues I have to me as a coach to motivate. One thing I never really saw Archie do and I haven't seen Woodson yet, is make a move to put one of the "big guys" on the bench for any extended amount of time when they aren't playing well. Wisconsin is going to come in and beat on us like Rutgers. That is their MO. I am telling guys in the lockerroom before it even starts, "We have a plan to win this game. We will win this game if you execute that plan, stay mentally tough in spite of how they are likely to play, and play this game like it is your last. If I think for any minute that any of you aren't doing that, you are going to come over and take a seat on the bench until you do." If the guy goes to the bench and sulks, he is done for the day. If he goes and goofs off. Done. If he stays engaged in the game and with his teammates in a positive fashion, I make him wait a few minutes and try again to see if message got through. If it didn't, he may as well hit the showers because there wouldn't be a third chance in that game. Edit to add: And after that game I am setting up with game film to point out exactly where I think he was not living up to my expectations and also showing him game film where he was. That way we are both on same page and the kid has a chance to improve. Edited January 13, 2023 by IUCrazy2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You ever tried to motivate people? You have some that don't understand...they think they are playing with the proper intensity...I'd bet Trayce thought that his freshman and sophomore years...But he found another gear...Took him a couple of years...And I've heard Coach Woodson say many times how he's trying to get Malik to play at a higher level... It's not a "culteral issue.: It's an "experince issue." As I said, think Landon Turner...He didn't find his gear until he was a junior...and he had one of the world's greatest motivators on his ass for 2 1/2 years before that. Look at guys like Andrae Patterson or Charlie Miller...They never did get it... I'm really weary of this whole episode. so here's the bottom line... No, I don't think we're playing our best basketball, but to say the injuries have nothing to do with it makes me believe that frustration has clouded you judgement (and I'm not talking about you @tdhoosier) I believe Mike Woodson is trying his ass off every day to motivate kids to play at a higher level... I don't think the kids have given up, nor do I think the coaches have... Better days are ahead...There are a lot of people I respect in this thread saying things I think are simply motivated by frustration...Well, you're not alone...I'm just not going to stretch the truth or bring in BS stories to bolster a position... I do it every evening....effort level is an arbitrary measurement based on each athlete and their capabilities. I get that. But at this level, not having to ask a scholarship'd athlete to 'compete' should be a given. You are saying that our players aren't executing the game plan or can't execute the game plan. Is that correct? I'm saying: IF the players are incapable of executing the game plan then it's not a good game plan. Yet, for the last 3 games, it still looks like that we are continually trying to shove that round peg into a square hole. The game plan needs to be adapted to the personnel that is available. For example, you can't just plug JG into Race's role and expect JG to do all the same things Race does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Shep Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Despite all this we are still a #10 seed in bracketology 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, tdhoosier said: You are saying that our players aren't executing the game plan or can't execute the game plan. Is that correct? I honestly don't know...I'm just saying there are two sides to the sword... 2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I'm saying: IF the players are incapable of executing the game plan then it's not a good game plan. Yet, for the last 3 games, it still looks like that we are continually trying to shove that round peg into a square hole. The game plan needs to be adapted to the personnel that is available. For example, you can't just plug JG into Race's role and expect JG to do all the same things Race does. I agree with that...I'm just not sure that's what's happening...As I said to @BGleas, I do wish we'd get away from thinking Trayce needs a touch on every possession... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I agree with that...I'm just not sure that's what's happening...As I said to @BGleas, I do wish we'd get away from thinking Trayce needs a touch on every possession... Side note, I do fear that this mentality may stunt our progress for next season. It's why I said a couple of weeks ago (before Race and XJ's injuries) that this team needs to learn how to function offensively without Trayce in the middle. And if TJD were to go out this season....oh boy. We have so little experience getting shots for other players. This whole 'eggs in one basket' mentality is and has always been a risky strategy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 I don't have any answers and I don't know that wholesale changes would produce anything positive. The game has evolved into NBA lite, especially for programs recruiting top talent. Those kids want a free flowing offense that allows them to make plays and showcase their talent for the next level. They aren't interested in setting screens for someone else to score. I'm not even sure that winning games is the most important thing on their agenda. CMW's coaching experience is as an NBA talent manager. It looks to me that he is trying to establish that model at IU. He doesn't have the talent level at IU currently to make that work. If he doesn't get it soon he will fail. Purdue is a better TEAM this year without the NBA talent than they wew last year. Personally, I don't like the trend. Right now, we aren't structured enough to be Purdue and not good enough to be CMW's vision of IU basketball. I don't see that changing anytime soon. I also expect a completely different looking team next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, cthomas said: I Purdue is a better TEAM this year without the NBA talent than they were last year. My brother is a Purdue fan and is saying the same thing. He said Ivey was an NBA player. This year they have a team of college players. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDB Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: My brother is a Purdue fan and is saying the same thing. He said Ivey was an NBA player. This year they have a team of college players. For some reason, I really like watching Purdue play this year. Reminds of some of the old IU teams back in the day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: I honestly don't know...I'm just saying there are two sides to the sword... I agree with that...I'm just not sure that's what's happening...As I said to @BGleas, I do wish we'd get away from thinking Trayce needs a touch on every possession... Looks like you are fighting a great battle on an island by yourself just like the end of the Archie era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 49 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Looks like you are fighting a great battle on an island by yourself just like the end of the Archie era I really don't think it's like that... Yet... I just want people to be fair about it. I think you're one of the prime examples of a fan who just after an ass kicking like we took in Happy Valley has their judgement clouded by emotions. After you think about it later, you simmer down some. I believe in fairness. Trotting out half truths and outright lies to prop up a position to me is unconscionable... Some nobody over on BtownBanners says Coach Woodson is lazy and none of the players listen to him and next thing you know, it's gospel even over here... That's not right... And I'll say my thoughts on it every time... Simple as that... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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