Transfers with IU Interest

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

I don't think Battle is a great fit for this team. He's a pretty inefficient scorer and doesn't play defense/rebound well. He'd probably be an upgrade from Kopp at the 3 in the scoring department but he's not as good of a set shooter. I think he would struggle guarding most 4's in a small ball lineup.

Ledlum would be my preferred choice. I think he's capable of playing the other forward spot in a small ball lineup but also good enough to play out on the wing if Woodson decides to play a more traditional lineup like he has the last two years. If IU is somehow able to lock up Ledlum, Sparks, and Shedrick by the end of the week it settles the frontcourt issues and IU has a chance to really hone in on an athletic 2 guard. 

I think XJ, Cupps, and TG would improve Mr. Battles inefficiencies quite a bit. 

I don't know that Battle played all that hard last year, simply put. His JR year #s are very solid.. In conference: 17p 6r 44% FG 36% from 3 (on 7 attempts). 

The bold though, I can't agree with at all. What 4s did we play that he would struggle to guard because of lack of size? He's 6'7 225 and Race is 6'8 235. 

[Between2Halls]

8 minutes ago, btownqb said:

 

So much more skilled than Race. 

That guy shoots 100%. 😳

Seriously, though, thanks for posting. Was not too familiar with his game, but I like what I see in this reel. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Between2Halls said:

That guy shoots 100%. 😳

Seriously, though, thanks for posting. Was not too familiar with his game, but I like what I see in this reel. 

I do too. I love his ability to create off the dribble. Race just flat out did not have that ability. 

[IndyResident16]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I think XJ, Cupps, and TG would improve Mr. Battles inefficiencies quite a bit. 

I don't know that Battle played all that hard last year, simply put. His JR year #s are very solid.. In conference: 17p 6r 44% FG 36% from 3 (on 7 attempts). 

The bold though, I can't agree with at all. What 4s did we play that he would struggle to guard because of lack of size? He's 6'7 225 and Race is 6'8 235. 

Battle's DRtg of 111, simply put, is terrible. 3.8 rpg isn't going to cut it either from the other forward spot. He's not overly athletic and wasn't close to Race pre-injury nor is he overly physical. 

[IndyResident16]

8 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Defense can be taught 

Agreed but he'd be a 5th year player and if he hasn't figured it out by now I wouldn't count on it. Defense is about effort and energy and I never gathered that from watching Battle in his 2 years at Minnesota. 

[btownqb]

4 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Battle's DRtg of 111, simply put, is terrible. 3.8 rpg isn't going to cut it either from the other forward spot. He's not overly athletic and wasn't close to Race pre-injury nor is he overly physical. 

That defensive rating is 100% irrelevant to me. There are tooo many factors that go into a DRtg. Unless you've watched every film on Battle, you can't use that to justify a poor defensive player. 

And right.. none of what you mentioned is Battles game. I don't necessarily know that we need him to be overly physical. I do think I prefer Ledlum, but my goodness...if we get Battle I am A OKAY with it. 

I ask again.. what 4s did we play that would have taken advantage of Battle size wise?

maybe Furst? But he isn't going to score enough to beat you. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by btownqb

[IndyResident16]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

That defensive rating is 100% irrelevant to me. There are tooo many factors that go into a DRtg. Unless you've watched every film on Battle, you can't use that to justify a poor defensive player. 

And right.. none of what you mentioned is Battles game. I don't necessarily know that we need him to be overly physical. I do think I prefer Ledlum, but my goodness...if we get Battle I am A OKAY with it. 

I ask again.. what 4s did we play that would have taken advantage of Battle size wise?

maybe Furst? But he isn't going to score enough to beat you. 

Murray, Tubelis, Jalen Wilson, Mayer, really any 4 that has the size to take you off the bounce would have all given Battle fits. I'm not concerned with Battle's size as I am with his lack of physicality and lack of athleticism. I just don't think it's there. 

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, IndyResident16 said:

Murray, Tubelis, Jalen Wilson, Mayer, really any 4 that has the size to take you off the bounce would have all given Battle fits. I'm not concerned with Battle's size as I am with his lack of physicality and lack of athleticism. I just don't think it's there. 

Murray, Tubelis, and Jalen Wilson gave EVERYONE problems. Hell aren't all three of them AAs? 

There were times Minny started him at the 3, one of those times was against ILL... I think he very much out of his element defending 3s. 

No I don't think he's an overly physical dude. But, Malik, Sparks and one more big with him could help a lot... plus, it seems we only want a grad transfer in that spot. We want those scholly and those mins in 24-25. 

[IndyResident16]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

Murray, Tubelis, and Jalen Wilson gave EVERYONE problems. Hell aren't all three of them AAs? 

There were times Minny started him at the 3, one of those times was against ILL... I think he very much out of his element defending 3s. 

No I don't think he's an overly physical dude. But, Malik, Sparks and one more big with him could help a lot... plus, it seems we only want a grad transfer in that spot. We want those scholly and those mins in 24-25. 

Battle would be a decent consolation prize. I think Ledlum brings a ton more versatility to both the offensive and defensive ends  and tremendously raises IU's floor the next two years. 

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Battle would be a decent consolation prize. I think Ledlum brings a ton more versatility to both the offensive and defensive ends  and tremendously raises IU's floor the next two years. 

Ledlum for sure has 2 years of eligibility? I did say I preferred him more. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by btownqb

[IndyResident16]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

Ledlum for sure has 2 years of eligibility? I did say I preferred him more. 

yes two years

[IUFLA]

On the Minny boards there's a lot of talk that Battle jumped because Ben Johnson wants to center their offense around Garcia, and not Jamison...

Johnson has lost quite a bit of his roster over it supposedly 

 

[KoB2011]

8 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Battle would be a decent consolation prize. I think Ledlum brings a ton more versatility to both the offensive and defensive ends  and tremendously raises IU's floor the next two years. 

I think we all agree with that.

Personally, if I'm taking a shot on an older guy we need to change a lot I'd prefer Caleb Love. 15 PPG in nearly 100 career starts at UNC is nothing to sneeze at, and I think moving him off ball could help a lot with his hero ball tendencies. 

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

On the Minny boards there's a lot of talk that Battle jumped because Ben Johnson wants to center their offense around Garcia, and not Jamison...

Johnson has lost quite a bit of his roster over it supposedly 

 

Well, I don't think Coach Woodson is going to tell him that IU will be the Jamison Battle show either.

[IUFLA]

Just now, 5fouls said:

Well, I don't think Coach Woodson is going to tell him that IU will be the Jamison Battle show either.

I agree there... 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think we all agree with that.

Personally, if I'm taking a shot on an older guy we need to change a lot I'd prefer Caleb Love. 15 PPG in nearly 100 career starts at UNC is nothing to sneeze at, and I think moving him off ball could help a lot with his hero ball tendencies. 

Davis was UNC point guard last year and Love still tried to do everything 

[5fouls]

26 minutes ago, btownqb said:

That defensive rating is 100% irrelevant to me. There are tooo many factors that go into a DRtg. 

A defensive rating earned over the course of a season by Battle is irrelevant, but a 45 second video of Ledlum highlights against lesser competition is enough to properly judge his impact?

I'm not buying it.  The Ledlum film may, in fact, be a good representation of what he can do for IU.  But, count me among those that believe year-long statistical information is more meaningful than a highlight clip.

 

[rico]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Davis was UNC point guard last year and Love still tried to do everything 

Davis was a shooting machine as well.

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

A defensive rating earned over the course of a season by Battle is irrelevant, but a 45 second video of Ledlum highlights against lesser competition is enough to properly judge his impact?

I'm not buying it.  The Ledlum film may, in fact, be a good representation of what he can do for IU.  But, count me among those that believe year-long statistical information is more meaningful than a highlight clip.

 

is that what I said? 

Drating is impacted by OTHERS, including coaches. But, that's fine. We have already had an in home visit with Ledlum, and are having one with Battle. I'm not saying he's a good defender... I'm saying that rating tells us nothing. 

So .... which is it? you like Battle or Ledlum? or neither? 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by btownqb

[btownqb]

Guys.. that Drating isn't telling you what you think it's telling you. If you want to use that rating as actual evidence... idk what to tell you... 

The ENTIRE MINNESOTA rosters BEST defensive rating last year was 105.4... which is VERY close to Tamars rating. Hell... on our roster alone it's telling us TG, MK, and TB were basically our three worst defenders. That's bad data. 

So... you're going to tell me Tamar would be one of their better defenders? Can't be fooled by that rating. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by btownqb

[5fouls]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

is that what I said? 

You most definitely said Battle's atrocious defensive rating was irrelevant.

And, you strongly suggested that Ledlum's highlight video proved he was better than Race.

Ledlum did have a better season than Race.  His advanced stats show that.  But, take away the time where Race was not 100%, and it's not like Race had a terrible year.

Bottom line is Battle's defensive rating is meaningful for him just as Ledlum's good rating is for him.

 

[btownqb]

Just now, 5fouls said:

You most definitely said Battle's atrocious defensive rating was irrelevant.

And, you strongly suggested that Ledlum's highlight video proved he was better than Race.

Ledlum did have a better season than Race.  His advanced stats show that.  But, take away the time where Race was not 100%, and it's not like Race had a terrible year.

Bottom line is Battle's defensive rating is meaningful for him just as Ledlum's good rating is for him.

 

Oh the highlight video absolutely showed a skill set that Race doesn't have. Inarguable. Whether he's better or not? Idk, but Race's skill set doesn't work at the 4, and hasn't since like 2005. 

I don't think Race had a terrible year at all.. he just should have never been a starter on a Power 5 level ranked team. I didn't bring up Ledlums rating. I don't look at those ratings as evidence, they're too skewed by external factors. 

[5fouls]

9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Guys.. that Drating isn't telling you what you think it's telling you. If you want to use that rating as actual evidence... idk what to tell you... 

The ENTIRE MINNESOTA rosters BEST defensive rating last year was 105.4... which is VERY close to Tamars rating. Hell... on our roster alone it's telling us TG, MK, and TB were basically our three worst defenders. That's bad data. 

So... you're going to tell me Tamar would be one of their better defenders? Can't be fooled by that rating. 

The DRating admittedly likes bigs more than perimeter players. But, the fact that Battle's DRating is roughly 13 points worse than Race's is a meaningful comparison, regardless of anything else.

Edited March 28, 2023 by 5fouls

[Kdug]

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

You most definitely said Battle's atrocious defensive rating was irrelevant.

And, you strongly suggested that Ledlum's highlight video proved he was better than Race.

Ledlum did have a better season than Race.  His advanced stats show that.  But, take away the time where Race was not 100%, and it's not like Race had a terrible year.

Bottom line is Battle's defensive rating is meaningful for him just as Ledlum's good rating is for him.

 

I don't know enough about Battle to say how good or bad he is on defense. But individual defensive ratings are heavily influenced by team results - they essentially take the team defensive rating and make minor adjustments for steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds. It's a really poor way to quantify individual defensive value, and it is pretty close to irrelevant.

[IndyResident16]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Guys.. that Drating isn't telling you what you think it's telling you. If you want to use that rating as actual evidence... idk what to tell you... 

The ENTIRE MINNESOTA rosters BEST defensive rating last year was 105.4... which is VERY close to Tamars rating. 

So... you're going to tell me Tamar would be one of their better defenders? Can't be fooled by that rating. 

There's plenty of other telling indicators. His rebound % is terrible, steals non-existent. Yes DRtg isn't end be all but his cumulative Drtg all 4 years as a college player is damning. He's not very athletic nor is he overly physical. He's never stood out as a willing or capable defender in the games I've seen Minnesota play. 

He's got a scorer's mentality which is a plus but he's not overly efficient and he's a streaky 3 point shooter. Yes IU needs scoring next year but also don't need a guy out there taking 12 shots just to score 12 points.