Transfers with IU Interest

[btownqb]

Just now, 5fouls said:

The DRating admittedly likes bigs more than perimeter players. But, the fact that Battle's DRating is roughly 13 points worse than Race's is a meaningful comparison, regardless of a thing else.

It absolutely isn't. But I do think Race is a better overall defensive player. 

Again.. Minnesotas "best defender" was rated what Bates was rated at..... cmon. 

[btownqb]

Just now, IndyResident16 said:

There's plenty of other telling indicators. His rebound % is terrible, steals non-existent. Yes DRtg isn't end be all but his cumulative Drtg all 4 years as a college player is damning. He's not very athletic nor is he overly physical. He's never stood out as a willing or capable defender in the games I've seen Minnesota play. 

He's got a scorer's mentality which is a plus but he's not overly efficient and he's a streaky 3 point shooter. Yes IU needs scoring next year but also don't need a guy out there taking 12 shots just to score 12 points. 

Steals don't really always tell us everything either. They are many times a product of others efforts. 

So.. why do you think we having an in home with him? 

Do you think Woodson is going to allow him to play so effortlessly defensively? Do you think CMW would allow him to take as many of the poor shots he took at Minny? Not a chance. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Kdug said:

I don't know enough about Battle to say how good or bad he is on defense. But individual defensive ratings are heavily influenced by team results - they essentially take the team defensive rating and make minor adjustments for steals, blocks, and defensive rebounds. It's a really poor way to quantify individual defensive value, and it is pretty close to irrelevant.

It's an awful way to rate them. Especially defense. 

[Bowhunter]

Is Ledlum a wing or a 4? If he is a 4 then him and Reneau would be both under the rim guys. I’d like to have at least one athletic above the rim dunker/blocker in the starting lineup.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Bowhunter

[btownqb]

6 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

Is Ledlum a wing or a 4? If he is a 4 then him and Reneau would be both under the rim guys. I’d like to have at least one athletic above the rim dunker/blocker in the starting lineup.

Doesn't seem like we are going to roll with that in our starting lineup. Ledlum played the 4 at Harvard and avged 10 boards a game. 

[IndyResident16]

7 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

Is Ledlum a wing or a 4? If he is a 4 then him and Reneau would be both under the rim guys. I’d like to have at least one athletic above the rim dunker/blocker in the starting lineup.

He would likely be our "four man" but in the era of positionless basketball I think the position label is rather irrelevant. He has an inside/out game and has the ability to guard out to the perimeter. Not an elite athlete but rangy enough to guard quicker players out on the perimeter. 

[BGleas]

25 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

Is Ledlum a wing or a 4? If he is a 4 then him and Reneau would be both under the rim guys. I’d like to have at least one athletic above the rim dunker/blocker in the starting lineup.

That's where getting the UVA kid would be great. He'd fill that athletic, long, defensive big role. 

[IndyResident16]

30 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So.. why do you think we having an in home with him?

Because IU is likely going to need to fill 3-5 scholarships next year and Battle's ability to score the basketball in spurts is an area of need. 

[btownqb]

Just now, IndyResident16 said:

Because IU is likely going to need to fill 3-5 scholarships next year and Battle's ability to score the basketball in spurts is an area of need. 

Agree. Everything else you've mentioned, imo, will be taken care of by CMW, staff, and leaders on the team. 

I do think he's a tick soft. I do think I prefer Ledlum, but Battle is big time get. 

[Steubenhoosier]

I get it, you have to evaluate these guys on what they did with their previous teams. Only way you can properly assess their physical talents.

I do not agree with evaluating a guy's mental makeup based on their previous team experience. I am of the opinion that when you have a coach who was an All-American, long-time NBA pro and coach, a coach who tells you he knows what it's going to take to get said player to the next level....there might be a bit more attention paid. These guys are not considering transferring to IU because of our past glory. Hell, in their lifetimes we have been a nonfactor. They are contemplating transferring to IU because of the reputation and coaching acumen of CMW, They have seen how TJD improved in the two years here. they saw how JHS became a lottery pick in his one year of development. I would not shy away from a highly skilled player, like a Love because of his past tendencies. If the skills are to the level that the coaching staff is striving for, and the player fills a position of need, I feel confident that Woody will send a clear message as to how things will be done if the player wants to play for his program.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Well, I don't think Coach Woodson is going to tell him that IU will be the Jamison Battle show either.

Yes, but I'm guessing Battle, like most players, is more willing to accept that on a good team than on a bad team.

 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

The DRating admittedly likes bigs more than perimeter players. But, the fact that Battle's DRating is roughly 13 points worse than Race's is a meaningful comparison, regardless of anything else.

Serious question for you, if you switched Battle and Race on IU and Minnesota, do you still think their DRating would have been anywhere close to 13 points apart? 

[Andrew]

Battle is good and he likes iu why are we arguing lmao

[dwtaylor1055]

4 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Battle is good and he likes iu why are we arguing lmao

because they're all bored and waiting for Sparks to pop

[KoB2011]

My thoughts on DRtg and other similar stats can be summed up as follows.

Kobe Bean Bryant was one of the best perimeter defenders in the game during his career, his his DBPM for his career is -.1 (meaning he was just slightly below league average on defense). 

Maybe that means Kobe wasn't actually an elite defensive player, or maybe it means stats like that are stupid and missing a lot of very important context. 

[btownqb]

https://247sports.com/Player/Chris-Ledlum-46051656/high-school-211722/

Didnt realize Ledlum was as highly rated as he was. 

I absolutely do not care about rankings, especially from 4 years ago... but just didnt know he was so highly thought of. 

ILL, UF, UGA, Iowa, ND, PSU, SH, St Johns, TTU, TCU, Wake. Vandy, XU, and VT all offered out of HS. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by btownqb

[5fouls]

21 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

My thoughts on DRtg and other similar stats can be summed up as follows.

Kobe Bean Bryant was one of the best perimeter defenders in the game during his career, his his DBPM for his career is -.1 (meaning he was just slightly below league average on defense). 

Maybe that means Kobe wasn't actually an elite defensive player, or maybe it means stats like that are stupid and missing a lot of very important context. 

Reputation often conflicts with reality.  

[jv1972iu]

24 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

My thoughts on DRtg and other similar stats can be summed up as follows.

Kobe Bean Bryant was one of the best perimeter defenders in the game during his career, his his DBPM for his career is -.1 (meaning he was just slightly below league average on defense). 

Maybe that means Kobe wasn't actually an elite defensive player, or maybe it means stats like that are stupid and missing a lot of very important context. 

It's guys who get off on numbers, statistics... and other advanced crapola.

Edited March 28, 2023 by jv1972iu

[IUCrazy2]

3 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Ledlum

Shedrick

Sparks

These 3 seem pretty realistic as of now. 

Still would like to add another wing.

[KoB2011]

13 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Reputation often conflicts with reality.  

And a misunderstanding of how flawed and incomplete individual defensive statistics are in basketball (and a lot of sports) makes for poor analysis. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by KoB2011

[KoB2011]

13 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

It's guys who get off on numbers, statistics... and other advanced crapola.

I mean I love numbers and statistics, I think they have an important role in a discussion, the problem is thinking they are the only role or even the leading role. 

[IndyResident16]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

And a misunderstanding of how flawed and incomplete individual defensive statistics are in basketball (and a lot of sports) makes for poor analysis. 

If you watched Jamison Battle play at all the last two years you would never confuse him for being a good defender. That I'll promise you, numbers or statistics be damned. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by IndyResident16

[IUProfessor]

17 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Still would like to add another wing.

And a combo guard, in my opinion.

[5fouls]

Just now, IndyResident16 said:

If you watched Jamison Battle play at all the last two years you would never confuse him for a good defender. That I'll promise you, numbers or statistics be damned. 

100%.  I'm confused with the strong desire to make Battle something he is not.  

He's a below average defender.  I can support that position through stats, through the eye test, through what professional scouts say, etc.

Who cares what method is used to support the point.  He's not a good defender.  If someone still wants him, i encourage them to focus on what he does well instead of trying to explain away what he doesnt.

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

If you watched Jamison Battle play at all the last two years you would never confuse him for being a good defender. That I'll promise you, numbers or statistics be damned. 

None of us thought/think that, though.