Nebraska Post Game

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

The key phrase in your post is 'prior to this season'.

The tweet I questioned was based primarily a single game, that being last night.  This Nebraska team is potentially the best since they joined the conference.  It only stands to reason that it beats teams more convincingly than Husker teams of the past.

We'll see. While Nebraska is good, there's still a lot of people that don't think they're a tournament lock or anything. 

[Hoosier987]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, agree. Some may compare this to the at PSU loss last year, but the difference this year is we have no elite guard like JHS. 

Last year we had an elite big and an elite guard. We don't have that guard this year and the sum of the guard parts don't make up for not having a JHS type player. 

Agreed. No comparison imo 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Misleading statement in that Nebraska is in much better shape as a program with Hoiberg now than it was when Archie and Crean were here.

I mean it isn’t like they never made the tournament under Miles. But if you prefer this instead:

 

[KoB2011]

15 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, agree. Some may compare this to the at PSU loss last year, but the difference this year is we have no elite guard like JHS. 

Last year we had an elite big and an elite guard. We don't have that guard this year and the sum of the guard parts don't make up for not having a JHS type player. 

Reneau and Ware aren’t close to TJD as college players, either. They’re more comparable to sophomore TJD than senior TJD. 

[tdhoosier]

8 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

The problem is constructing the team around having 2 5's on the floor.  Galloway should be the 3 and Mgbako the 4.

Agree.

No disrespect to Gallo, but on a good team he’s a 6th man who should be primarily playing the 2/3, but on this team he’s our lead guard forced into playing the 1/2.

I didn't listen to the press conference so maybe hearing that quote of Woody calling out Gallo and X needs more context, but it annoys me he did that. To me, Gallo is the player who seems to care the most on this team…even when he’s playing bad. Unfortunately, he’s just not the type of player who can consistently give you production night in and night out. I’m not sure he’s ever proven that he can contribute on the road. Again, he’s a 6th man.

Gallo is who he is. He’s an excellent role player, ironically, one of the only role players on this team, who’s not even put in a position to accel in the role he’s good at.  

If Woody wants to complain about the guard play, then don’t fill it up your roster with forwards in the transfer portal and don’t leave a scholarship open when you are dreadfully thin in the back court. I’m sorry, but this is not rocket science. 

We can play with the current roster all we want..switch guys to different positions, but I’m not sure it will really matter because we still don’t have guard depth to play in the B1G. 

We can come out next game and blow the pants off Minnesota, but the problem will still persist. 

The tough thing about last night is that I was still hoping that the team could turn it around….you know, find a way to get over the hump 🙄…but I’m not sure this season is salvageable. That’s what hurts. 

And let’s say the team finds a way to squeak into the tournament, I’m still not going to feel warm and fuzzy about the program until…..

A. We have quality guard depth.

B. Can execute basic fundamentals….like boxing out. 

Based on history, I’m really questioning whether our coaching staff can do that. It really pains me to say that. 

[NotIThatLives]

7 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

In a vacuum it’s not a big deal, but it was one of our more winnable Quad 1 games. 

Maybe, probably.   Idk, that looked like a very good team to me.  Very balanced.  Just a togetherness we clearly don't have.  Allick is what Trey would be if we weren't trying to play him so out of his element.  Remember those days of wild man?  Diving for loose balls with an almost recklessness.  Effecting the game with sheer effort.  

 

[NCHoosier32]

So...just to pile on the doom and gloom...I'll start with XJ...we didn't look good before his injury and he didn't look good before his injury.  Back it up to last year and consider this - many say we would have been better with him and I say not so fast.  JHS had always been a PG and was preparing to play off the ball because of XJ.  I'll argue we were as good as we were because JHS played PG last season and it would have never happened had XJ not gotten injured.  Next, I totally agree with the program being in purgatory with Woodson comment made previously.  We could have done worse.  I like the excitement he has created and some of the recruiting he has done.  Don't think we can fire him any time in the near future, but also don't think he is going to get us to the level we want before he retires.  So...we wait.  I said coming into the season that the key would be Mgbako being good enough immediately as a college 3 that he would lead us in scoring.  I said that because I knew playing the 3 would be a tough adjustment, but that that is where he'd play on top of us really having no other 3 on this roster.  Well, we clearly see he would be better as a 4, but we just don't have the personnel to even consider that.  Also, still trying to figure out why in 2024 we have an open scholarship.  I'll keep watching every game and getting excited when we win home games.  Just mark my words... we'll turn around and win Sat and half the people on here will say we made adjustments and all is good.  Then we'll lose at Rutgers and we'll have another thread like this, then repeat...All right, I guess that's about it.  

[BobSaccamanno]

We need wings who are legitimately wings, guys who can move laterally, help handle the ball, shoot and slash with regularity, etc. 

We need shooting guards who can actually shoot especially with volume, defend the three and help rebound.  

We need point guards who can initiate the action, be playmakers and also square up and shoot.  

I honestly don’t think we have any of that.  So it’s not quite right to say that we have talent.  The upside for this team isn’t very high.  Would love to see an NCAA tourney bid, even if it’s a first round loss.  I’m not holding my breath though.  

At this point I just don’t want IU to go off the rails like with Archie.   

The offseason is huge.  Hopefully the staff learned a lesson last offseason.  The concern is that the staff expresses stubbornness publicly.   I think you’ve got to land half a dozen new players next year.  

 

Edited January 4 by BobSaccamanno

[BobSaccamanno]

2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I was pessimistic 5 minutes into the game.  5 minutes into the second half I was so uninterested in what I was watching, I turned it off.  It's not that they were losing, it's that they were playing a form of basketball that is just not enjoyable to watch. 

Yeah I think as the years go by, we have more and more apathy in the fan base.  

[tdhoosier]

9 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

The offseason is huge.  Hopefully the staff learned a lesson last offseason.   

 

That's what I thought last season. We were essentially missing the same pieces minus JHS....and we needed to replace him. 

This offseason, I'll just say the whole 'fool me once' idiom.

.....Please don't fool me twice. 

[NotIThatLives]

8 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

So...just to pile on the doom and gloom...I'll start with XJ...we didn't look good before his injury and he didn't look good before his injury.  Back it up to last year and consider this - many say we would have been better with him and I say not so fast.  JHS had always been a PG and was preparing to play off the ball because of XJ.  I'll argue we were as good as we were because JHS played PG last season and it would have never happened had XJ not gotten injured.  Next, I totally agree with the program being in purgatory with Woodson comment made previously.  We could have done worse.  I like the excitement he has created and some of the recruiting he has done.  Don't think we can fire him any time in the near future, but also don't think he is going to get us to the level we want before he retires.  So...we wait.  I said coming into the season that the key would be Mgbako being good enough immediately as a college 3 that he would lead us in scoring.  I said that because I knew playing the 3 would be a tough adjustment, but that that is where he'd play on top of us really having no other 3 on this roster.  Well, we clearly see he would be better as a 4, but we just don't have the personnel to even consider that.  Also, still trying to figure out why in 2024 we have an open scholarship.  I'll keep watching every game and getting excited when we win home games.  Just mark my words... we'll turn around and win Sat and half the people on here will say we made adjustments and all is good.  Then we'll lose at Rutgers and we'll have another thread like this, then repeat...All right, I guess that's about it.  

I'm not a huge X fan, never have been.  I won't miss his facial expression after every single turnover he attempts to claim he was fouled.  I want smart floor general point guard.  We don't have it.  I'm not sure the win loss would have been different but he used to flat out be able to shut a guy down.  Haven't seen it in a while.  Who knows.  

I'm trying to find a positive.  I guess the team still has time to get in sync together.  Hopefully getting humiliated causes a fire to be lit.  I don't see us having the resume, but I can see us jelling over the last 10 games of the season and maybe we can finally win the ugly B1G tourney.  Lots of new pieces playing together.  Not having a really good shooter hurts, and the guard depth is a deadhorse.  And Mbako totally disappears for hours of games.  I'll have to check his minutes.   But again, disappointing. 

Summary.  I agree, this version of X isn't likely to lead to any wins.  Is the show guys named Rafael Davis?  He said X and Trey should be the best defensive backcourt in the conference and it's about want to.  🤷‍♂️ 

Other off points.  I'd put Ware equal to Jr year Trayce and Malik sophomore without the ability to effect the defensive end of the court in any positive way.  

[NotIThatLives]

21 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

So...just to pile on the doom and gloom...I'll start with XJ...we didn't look good before his injury and he didn't look good before his injury.  Back it up to last year and consider this - many say we would have been better with him and I say not so fast.  JHS had always been a PG and was preparing to play off the ball because of XJ.  I'll argue we were as good as we were because JHS played PG last season and it would have never happened had XJ not gotten injured. 

Not to turn this into last year but we really had no point guard.  Trey probably brought the ball up the floor as much as JHS.  Shoot.  Race and Trayce would even bring it up.  Another flawed roster that didn't capitalize on once a decade or 2 talent.  

[Southern IN Hoosier]

I don't post often but I think some of you may remember how I defended Archie until the very end. I though Archie was going to be a fantastic coach and just needed time, granted he had time. 

I have made a couple posts about CMW and defended him to an extent. But I am tired of seeing this poorly constructed roster try and compete in a basketball game. It's terrible from top to bottom and no signs of it getting better. With all the NIL we have and we couldn't get a single guard in the portal that would be a difference maker. 

I believe it is time to move on and go get Dusty May or Chris Beard and be done with it.

[Courtsensetwo]

21 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

We need wings who are legitimately wings, guys who can move laterally, help handle the ball, shoot and slash with regularity, etc. 

We need shooting guards who can actually shoot especially with volume, defend the three and help rebound.  

We need point guards who can initiate the action, be playmakers and also square up and shoot.  

I honestly don’t think we have any of that.  So it’s not quite right to say that we have talent.  The upside for this team isn’t very high.  Would love to see an NCAA tourney bid, even if it’s a first round loss.  I’m not holding my breath though.  

At this point I just don’t want IU to go off the rails like with Archie.   

The offseason is huge.  Hopefully the staff learned a lesson last offseason.  The concern is that the staff expresses stubbornness publicly.   I think you’ve got to land half a dozen new players next year.  

 

As someone with an extensive coaching background, I can tell you and others here that our issues are largely at the other end of the floor. I know Scott, like Fred, is deeply involved in all aspects of the program and is regularly working with CMW to improve the team. 

Edited January 4 by Courtsensetwo

[5fouls]

51 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We'll see. While Nebraska is good, there's still a lot of people that don't think they're a tournament lock or anything. 

I looked up Miles record at Nebraska.  He had what could be called one 'good' conference season in '17-'18 when they went 13-5.  They also won 11 conference games in '13-'14, which may be good by Nebraska standards, but average by most teams.

 

[BGleas]

Just now, 5fouls said:

I looked up Miles record at Nebraska.  He had what could be called one 'good' conference season in '17-'18 when they went 13-5.  They also won 11 conference games in '13-'14, which may be good by Nebraska standards, but average by most teams.

 

Right, but still better than anything Hoiberg had done at Nebraska. 

You're talking single seasons, 13-5 in the Big Ten for Nebraska is pretty darn good. 

Just saying, Hoiberg hasn't done anything at Nebraska that is so much better than the Nebraska Crean or Archie had to contend with. 

[5fouls]

51 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I mean it isn’t like they never made the tournament under Miles. But if you prefer this instead:

 

They made the tournament exactly ONCE under Miles while the program was in the Big Ten.  That was in '13-'14.  Didnt even make it the year they went 13-5 in conference.  And, there were only 3 winning seasons during his tenure.

This will be a silly discussion 5 years from now if Hoiberg stays.  He will easily surpass Miles success.

[Parakeet Jones]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, agree. Some may compare this to the at PSU loss last year, but the difference this year is we have no elite guard like JHS. 

Last year we had an elite big and an elite guard. We don't have that guard this year and the sum of the guard parts don't make up for not having a JHS type player. 

You know I kind of thought at some point some might try to make a comparison to last year's PSU game and I already had this great Rick Pitino inspired TJD and JHS aren't walking through that door post ready to go.  With your preemptive strike, you have robbed me of what could have been my finest hour on HSN.  Thanks a lot.  

[5fouls]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

 

Just saying, Hoiberg hasn't done anything at Nebraska that is so much better than the Nebraska Crean or Archie had to contend with. 

Your discounting this year.  I'll go on record and say this year's Nebraska team will equal or exceed Miles best team.  

And, when we're comparing a single game to another era like we are trying to do here, things like where the game was played makes a difference.  

Last night was ugly.  But, it's a good Nebraska team, played on the road, and making Woodson to Archie comparisons based on one game is foolish.

[NCHoosier32]

20 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Not to turn this into last year but we really had no point guard.  Trey probably brought the ball up the floor as much as JHS.  Shoot.  Race and Trayce would even bring it up.  Another flawed roster that didn't capitalize on once a decade or 2 talent.  

i disagree.  i think JHS always has been a PG and played as well as he did because he got to play PG.  he was able to create for others or create his own scores.

[NCHoosier32]

20 minutes ago, Southern IN Hoosier said:

I don't post often but I think some of you may remember how I defended Archie until the very end. I though Archie was going to be a fantastic coach and just needed time, granted he had time. 

I have made a couple posts about CMW and defended him to an extent. But I am tired of seeing this poorly constructed roster try and compete in a basketball game. It's terrible from top to bottom and no signs of it getting better. With all the NIL we have and we couldn't get a single guard in the portal that would be a difference maker. 

I believe it is time to move on and go get Dusty May or Chris Beard and be done with it.

not going to see a coaching change for at least a couple more years, but Beard is a dude.  look at Ole Miss.  

[Artesian_86]

10 hours ago, SawatchHoosier said:

It's great to see all these news faces in the post game thread tonight. 

....lol, You caught that too? 😉

[EvilleHoosier]

The only hope for the season to overcome the roster construction issues is to get the team locked in on defense.   Abandon the scheme and let X and Trey go straight up against the other teams best guards.  They are capable high level defenders.  We all have seen it.  Defense is killing us.  Quit letting teams drop 80 plus night after night. 

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Maybe, probably.   Idk, that looked like a very good team to me.  Very balanced.  Just a togetherness we clearly don't have.  Allick is what Trey would be if we weren't trying to play him so out of his element.  Remember those days of wild man?  Diving for loose balls with an almost recklessness.  Effecting the game with sheer effort.  

 

They are a pretty good team, that’s why it’s a Quad 1 win. But do we really think beating Purdue, Sparty, Illinois or Wisconsin is a better chance for a Quad 1 than that team is?

[KoB2011]

13 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Your discounting this year.  I'll go on record and say this year's Nebraska team will equal or exceed Miles best team.  

And, when we're comparing a single game to another era like we are trying to do here, things like where the game was played makes a difference.  

Last night was ugly.  But, it's a good Nebraska team, played on the road, and making Woodson to Archie comparisons based on one game is foolish.

I get what you’re saying, but I think it’s fair to question how much things have really been raised 2.5 years into Woodson.

Was Woodson’s first year really better than Archie’s last non-Covid season? I’m going to say no, it was not.

Last year was a mixed bag. I know some folks like to kill me for that, but it’s the truth. The notable from that season is that we swept a really good Purdue team that happened to have a roster that ours matched up perfectly to expose. Sans those two games, we got embarrassed in just about every major game we played last year.

This year, more of the same. I’m not necessarily calling for any changes, but I am openly questioning Mike Woodson. He hasn’t really done that much and he’s incredibly stubborn for what little he has actually accomplished as a head coach, which I think is an incredibly poor trait in a leader. I think you’d find most coaches that are great and stay great are the opposite of stubborn in how they do things.

Does anyone expect an old man to really become open minded when he never has been before? Washington is littered with examples of that never happening.