Arkansas post game

[HoosierDom]

6 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

In games against ‘decent’ competition this year, this team is 4-2.  The other 7 wins are absolute garbage.  I am including Nebraska as decent even though they only had 7 or 8 scholarship players available.  UConn and Notre Dame were included as well.  As the season progresses, I think we will see that the wins over those three teams weren’t all that impressive.  Pounding your chest for this team being 11-2 is for fans that don’t deal in reality.

Are you suggesting that the above mentioned coaches didn't play cupcakes? The disparity between the power conferences and small schools was even greater the further back you go.

[Zlinedavid]

7 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said:

In games against ‘decent’ competition this year, this team is 4-2.  The other 7 wins are absolute garbage.  I am including Nebraska as decent even though they only had 7 or 8 scholarship players available.  UConn and Notre Dame were included as well.  As the season progresses, I think we will see that the wins over those three teams weren’t all that impressive.  Pounding your chest for this team being 11-2 is for fans that don’t deal in reality.

Scott and I are about as similar as oil and a pineapple, but I didn't see any chest beating. Saying we're 11-2 is a factual statement.

[iufaninand]

12 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

He did call timeouts and he did yank him out of the game but when you only had two other guards you had to put him back in.  Also in the press conference Archie said that the players just did not move or run the plays the way they were suppose to do.

I remember one point late he pulled Devonte to put Rob in, who made a couple bad plays and seemed actually worse than having Devonte in...

 

[Zlinedavid]

7 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

That's all good but there are plenty of other coaches that failed their 1st three years and ended up getting canned later.

And I bet none of the coaches on your list were getting paid a top 10 salary starting out.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

What would you like to bet on that?

Edit: Semi-retraction. Didn't see "started". I don't have rankings going that far back, but as of the beginning of the 2018-19 season (last season) there were 6 coaches on that list that make as much or more as Archie does now.

[rico]

Breaking News:

I went outside on the porch and looked up, the sky is not falling.

[IU878176]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

“Patience is not something a lot of fans have,” Knight said. “But this kid (Miller) is going to do a good job. Why? Because he can coach. Most of the coaches I’ve known, can’t coach."

I'll take this opinion over all others...I've always wondered what Tom Crean thought when he read that...

I consider Knight to be one of the three best (if not best) college coaches ever but that quote does nothing to make me feel better. He also thought Pat Knight was a good successor :).

[5fouls]

11-2 and a large portion of the fan base is in panic mode.  And, here is the really funny thing.  If we were 12-0 going into yesterday and lost, the reaction would be the same. We would be overreacting to every thing that went wrong.   On the flip side, if we were 9-3 going into yesterday and won, we would all be happy campers today.  This has to be one of the few fan bases that could find a way to be happier with a 10-3 record than we would be if we were 12-1.

 

 

[BobSaccamanno]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

“Patience is not something a lot of fans have,” Knight said. “But this kid (Miller) is going to do a good job. Why? Because he can coach. Most of the coaches I’ve known, can’t coach."

I'll take this opinion over all others...I've always wondered what Tom Crean thought when he read that...

That's a good quote.  I agree with you on wanting Archie to do well.  There have been times this year where I loved our ball movement in the half court.  I think I posted that it was the best we had seen in 15 years.  

We have the whole rest of the year to play well.  Hopefully we have an above .500 B1G record and get in the tourney.  That would be a step forward.  We have the players to get that done.  

[IU878176]

6 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Are you suggesting that the above mentioned coaches didn't play cupcakes? The disparity between the power conferences and small schools was even greater the further back you go.

After 7 games our SOS was roughly 345 out of 353 schools. I realize that we have one of the toughest schedules in the NCAA, if not toughest, in front of us but yes.....our cupcakes were sweeter cupcakes than nearly every other school.

[IU878176]

5 minutes ago, rico said:

Breaking News:

I went outside on the porch and looked up, the sky is not falling.

Did you also check the back porch

[Proud2BAHoosier]

16 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Like I have said that some very good coaches took more than 3 years to get established so why not let it play out to see if Archie can do it.  Our fans turning on the program after 2.5 years does nothing but hurt the program.

Yeah...… After all, we gave FCTC like what 10 years? So what's a few more years to wallow in?

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, BobSaccamanno said:

There is over-reaction, and I admittedly put myself at the top of the list.  We are all in the IU "family" and occasionally we can go off the rails like happens within all families.  I don't react well to some losses.

Having said that, and we are all friends here, I wouldn't go overboard defending the coaches right now.  This isn't a one-game thing.  We also have data from last year and other issues.

In the end, Archie was up something like 11 with 7 minutes to go.  The first or second idiotic play after that, it's his job to get the players' attention.  Remind them in a not so subtle way what the situation is and what we are trying to do.

Did Archie tell Green to launch a wild three early in the shot clock or try an ill-advised bounce pass in heavy traffic when the recipient had a considerable height advantage?  No, but it is his job to school his team on how to play smart ball.  This type of thing needs to be ingrained.

If you use Coach Knight as a reference point, he'd have Chuck Franz or Luke Jiminez or some walkon out there over the more ballyhooed talent because those guys would make the right plays.  They wouldn't wow you, but do the right thing.  It might befuddle fans but you'd walk away with a W.  The method made perfectly clear what smart basketball was supposed to be and what was acceptable. 

I like Archie in terms of attitude and what he's trying to do.  I am on board with his goals in terms of scheme and approach.  There have been things I have liked.  But, for two years now, we are seeing his players not execute what Archie wants.  He can't throw his hands up and say "I didn't tell him to throw it away."  He needs to demand proper execution or you don't play.  

The reason for the uproar is that the game last night was on the coaching staff.  A light was shining brightly on the poor way the game was handled.  I am not trying to ruffle anybody's feathers.  As I hope, we are all friends here.  But its not like I am taking personal potshots.  I am staying on specific issues.

Like I heard Leary talking about this morning is that the players today are not like the players of the past.  They seem to not handle criticism or handle tough love and will just shut down so more than likely benching them won't change a thing.

[Zlinedavid]

2 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Yeah...… After all, we gave FCTC like what 10 years? So what's a few more years to wallow in?

What does the prior coach's administration have to do with the evaluation of the current coach?

[3Ballin]

3 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

true, but if they are Hulls and Zeisloft and we have no TJD, how good will we be?  love to have Hulls and Zeisloft when we have Watford, Dipo, Zeller, and Yogi.  not sure how much difference Hulls and Zeisloft would make alongside Smith, Brunk, and RP? 

If i had to pick i would take hulls-like, ziesloft-like, smith, brunk and rp.  I know thats off in fantasy land somewhere....but that would give size and athleticism in the post, spread the floor with 2 shooters and give rp room to drive as opposed to TJD (super stud) and 4 mason's laying bricks for 40 minutes.

Dont take that as me saying i dont appreciate TJD.  Not sure theres a starting 5 i wouldnt put him on out of college players right now personally.

[HoosierDom]

18 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

So, I ask you what is wrong with 4-2?  Extrapolate that over a 30 game season and you get 20-10.  Not elite, but not 'Fire the Coach' either.  

You're under selling us. Everyone has a half dozen cupcakes. Maybe ours were easier than the norm, but they're all easy. We've played like a solid, well above the bubble team over those 6 games.

[5fouls]

Chris Beard is 9-3 against the 289th ranked schedule in KenPom

John Calipari is 9-3 against the 252nd ranked schedule in KenPom

Chris Mack is 11-2 against the 177th ranked schedule in KenPom

Tony Bennett is 10-2 against the 176th ranked schedule in KenPom

Archie Miller is 11-2 against the 168th ranked schedule in KenPom

 

Remind me again what the hell we're upset about?

[IU Scott]

54 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Thanks for the response.  I don't agree with your take on the game, but we can agree to disagree.  We would just get repetitive at this point.

I do take issue with you muddling and twisting two of my points, though.  I illustrated what Knight did over the years in terms of the bench and you know darn well that it worked for decades.  That was a broader point.  Archie was not able to stabilize the team and get them on message down the stretch which was a failure in a specific situation, which was on the coach.  

You talk about 1:35 but the critical part was when we were up double digits and squandered it in an instant with ill-advised shots and erratic decision-making.  They didn't value the ball at all.  That was the point where the coach needs to see what is crumbling and get to the bottom of it.  1:35 was after the critical segment of the game.  Beyond that, it is alarming how mentally out of touch the guards are as if they have had no training in how to handle the situation you are in.  That's coaching, preparation, film study, etc.  Our guys should not be so out of touch or should at least be able to be reigned in quickly because they are so well schooled.  

I am not sure how people think it is defensible to think that it's not on a coach to get his team to play smarter basketball.  There's hardly anything more fundamental in a coach's job. 

Let say Archie benches the whole starting lineup but 1 like RMK did in 84 and lose would you not be criticizing him.

[Brass Cannon]

4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Didn't we have scholarship offers out to Quinones and Carton? They would have helped, undoubtedly. We were in the race for both, and lost out. It happens...

Not sure who else you would suggest, unless you're going the Crean route and the only condition is their breath can fog a mirror...

It happens. But it’s still on Archie for not getting them 

[Zlinedavid]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Remind me again what the hell we're upset about?

The fact that Archie hasn't won enough to make us feel superior to Ohio State and Louisville.

[IU Scott]

45 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

What the first five guys did has literally no bearing on what Miller will do.  If you want to play that game, you could point to 1,000 coaches who started poorly, were poor in the middle, and ended poorly.  More correctly, statistics actually show that if you don't get good results, that will remain the case.  Picture the bell curve.  The vast majority will be in the middle and there will be a few on the edges who out-perform.  Based on this statistical approach, Miller would be doomed other than "so, you're saying there is a chance," Jim Carrey style.

All I am saying is that some of you just want to cut bait because you don't think it will turn around.  I am showing you even if you start out slow in your first few years it does not mean you can't turn it around.

[Brass Cannon]

22 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

I consider Knight to be one of the three best (if not best) college coaches ever but that quote does nothing to make me feel better. He also thought Pat Knight was a good successor :).

The game also passed him by. Won the conference 11 of 22 years and then 14 straight years at IU and Tech without a conference title

[Indy1987]

16 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

What would you like to bet on that?

Edit: Semi-retraction. Didn't see "started". I don't have rankings going that far back, but as of the beginning of the 2018-19 season (last season) there were 6 coaches on that list that make as much or more as Archie does now.

Yes that's why I said "started".  Sean Miller might have been top 10 at the time.  I dunno.  But most I'm sure got raises after the fact.   IU invested a lot in Archie from the get go and the jury is still out.

Go Hoosiers!!!

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Zlinedavid said:

The fact that Archie hasn't won enough to make us feel superior to Ohio State and Louisville.

I think people are angry because those teams hired new coaches and are already right back in the thick of things and better off in some ways. While we are staring down a coach that needs more time than Crean to build a decent team 

[3Ballin]

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

To be 100 percent honest I don't care if a shooter can stay with their own shadow if he can shoot.  No one ever confused Alford Roth or Leary as great defenders. I am so sick and tired of hearing we dont recruit kids that dont play hard on defensive end.  For 3 years I have not seen many on our team that do. 

Or Edwards or Blackmon. 

If we are guna play our games in the 60's, we had better have guys that can hit open shots!  But at the same time, if we had anyone that could hit a bear in the @$$ with a bass fiddle we'd be scoring close to 100 a game, even against teams that werent topped with frosting.  Our offense gets open looks, we just cant take advantage of them often.

[Zlinedavid]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

It happens. But it’s still on Archie for not getting them 

This is something that really gets to me. This isn't a pure sales situation. It's a kid's college decision. The salesperson (coach) can only do so much. Like with Garcia.....kid valued going to a Catholic university. There's no hardball, softball or screwball tactic that can overcome that. Maybe Carton felt more comfortable personality wise with Holtman. What's Archie supposed to do? Fake it until he signs the LOI, then watch him transfer in a year because they can't get along?