Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: So MSU who went to the final four is not good since Archie beat them twice last year. Tom Crean could win big games too. Didn’t mean he was the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Bennetts results his first two seasons were remarkably similar to Archie's. Did Bennett have Juwan Morgan and Romeo Langford his second season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, IU Scott said: You said he could not recruit and he showed you that he can and nothing about players staying. He hasn’t sustained the recruiting. No longer getting the benefit from that class and don’t have continued recruiting success to fall back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, BobSaccamanno said: I think players--and their parents--have changed, but I don't think they are as delicate as Leary is saying. Players want to get better and many know if they are coached hard, they benefit in the end. He was just stating you can't do things to players like you once could. He was going by what some of his friends who are AAU coaches are telling him about how you can't really coach players hard any longer. You also really wouldn't like what he said about Green because he thinks that Green is the only real scorer so he is not upset with his shot selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Did Bennett have Juwan Morgan and Romeo Langford his second season? I thought Bennett developed guys. What difference does it make what he started with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Tom Crean could win big games too. Didn’t mean he was the guy I am saying it is to early to say whether Arche is the guy or not and we have shown many top coaches who took awhile to establish their program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUfan93 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said: There is over-reaction, and I admittedly put myself at the top of the list. We are all in the IU "family" and occasionally we can go off the rails like happens within all families. I don't react well to some losses. Having said that, and we are all friends here, I wouldn't go overboard defending the coaches right now. This isn't a one-game thing. We also have data from last year and other issues. In the end, Archie was up something like 11 with 7 minutes to go. The first or second idiotic play after that, it's his job to get the players' attention. Remind them in a not so subtle way what the situation is and what we are trying to do. Did Archie tell Green to launch a wild three early in the shot clock or try an ill-advised bounce pass in heavy traffic when the recipient had a considerable height advantage? No, but it is his job to school his team on how to play smart ball. This type of thing needs to be ingrained. If you use Coach Knight as a reference point, he'd have Chuck Franz or Luke Jiminez or some walkon out there over the more ballyhooed talent because those guys would make the right plays. They wouldn't wow you, but do the right thing. It might befuddle fans but you'd walk away with a W. The method made perfectly clear what smart basketball was supposed to be and what was acceptable. I like Archie in terms of attitude and what he's trying to do. I am on board with his goals in terms of scheme and approach. There have been things I have liked. But, for two years now, we are seeing his players not execute what Archie wants. He can't throw his hands up and say "I didn't tell him to throw it away." He needs to demand proper execution or you don't play. The reason for the uproar is that the game last night was on the coaching staff. A light was shining brightly on the poor way the game was handled. I am not trying to ruffle anybody's feathers. As I hope, we are all friends here. But its not like I am taking personal potshots. I am staying on specific issues. Great post!! Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Zlinedavid said: I thought Bennett developed guys. What difference does it make what he started with? No use to arguing with some on here because they don't want to listen to common sense. In their minds they have already made up their minds and nothing will change their point of view no matter how many facts they are shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, Zlinedavid said: I thought Bennett developed guys. What difference does it make what he started with? Exactly my point. Archie has guys in year two that we’re good to go and he misused them. Bennett didn’t have that luxury and had to develop them. He made the tourney in year 3 also. Something Archie is going to struggle to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: No use to arguing with some on here because they don't want to listen to common sense. In their minds they have already made up their minds and nothing will change their point of view no matter how many facts they are shown. Nah. This is fun. Text based tennis. I'm not out to change anyone's mind, I just enjoy debating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: No use to arguing with some on here because they don't want to listen to common sense. In their minds they have already made up their minds and nothing will change their point of view no matter how many facts they are shown. Better than being the people with their head in the sand. You fans are the reason we kept Tom Crean for 9 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said: Exactly my point. Archie has guys in year two that we’re good to go and he misused them. Bennett didn’t have that luxury and had to develop them. He made the tourney in year 3 also. Something Archie is going to struggle to do. Actually he had a burger boy his first year there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, Brass Cannon said: Better than being the people with their head in the sand. You fans are the reason we kept Tom Crean for 9 years Whatever but I bet you did not e-mail the AD like I did to voice my displeasure with Crean. Also it would have been hard to fire a coach after he won two out right big ten championships and made it to the sweet 16 3 times in 5 years. Those are not elite things but it is to much to fire a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, Brass Cannon said: Exactly my point. Archie has guys in year two that we’re good to go and he misused them. Bennett didn’t have that luxury and had to develop them. He made the tourney in year 3 also. Something Archie is going to struggle to do. Romeo wasn't totally good to go for most of the year. Still had a great season by all accounts, but it's a different process coaching around an injury vs someone that is totally healthy. And Morgan was a good senior leader, and he's a great foundational player, but he's not a difference maker. That role was supposed to be Romeo's, but see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Chris Beard is 9-3 against the 289th ranked schedule in KenPom John Calipari is 9-3 against the 252nd ranked schedule in KenPom Chris Mack is 11-2 against the 177th ranked schedule in KenPom Tony Bennett is 10-2 against the 176th ranked schedule in KenPom Archie Miller is 11-2 against the 168th ranked schedule in KenPom Remind me again what the hell we're upset about? I'll play. Calipari and Bennett have won titles and, therefore, have longer leashes, and Beard just went to a FF. Point taken on Mack, but you're then going to have to explain why OSU is 11-2 against the 63rd ranked schedule then, and why IU isn't in a similar position. Some fans are upset because they're seeing some of the same issues as the last two years - lack of outside shooting, inconsistent guard play, defensive lapses, long stretches of inconsistent to poor production, to name a few. In a vacuum, that's a problem in itself, but when there are programs near you with coaches who were hired around the same time as Archie and are (seemingly) not having those issues, it's a bigger issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, IUskim said: Actually he had a burger boy his first year there who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, IU Scott said: So MSU who went to the final four is not good since Archie beat them twice last year. That is an outlier...Last years team’s entire body of work proves that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Whatever but I bet you did not e-mail the AD like I did to voice my displeasure with Crean. Also it would have been hard to fire a coach after he won two out right big ten championships and made it to the sweet 16 3 times in 5 years. Those are not elite things but it is to much to fire a coach. I most certainly did email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said: who? Sylven Landesberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, IUskim said: Sylven Landesberg Fair enough he played one year for Bennett and improved dramatically. He still didn’t get to pair him with his own recruits like Archie did with Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: who? Wasn't a McDAA, but Mike Scott wound up as a 1st team all ACC and 3rd team AA. Probably would have been a bigger help in Bennetts second year, but he was injured. But of course, that doesn't count and the coach should overcome that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Wasn't a McDAA, but Mike Scott wound up as a 1st team all ACC and 3rd team AA. Probably would have been a bigger help in Bennetts second year, but he was injured. But of course, that doesn't count and the coach should overcome that, right? Actually yeah. Granted Bennett was in his 5th year of coaching. Archie is in his 9th and his successor at Dayton is doing so well that miss his about as much as Marquette missed Crean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 What are the odds that Durham isn't running steps literally right now? Hopefully to the point a trash can is nearby. What a selfish act that cannot be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Actually yeah. Granted Bennett was in his 5th year of coaching. Archie is in his 9th and his successor at Dayton is doing so well that miss his about as much as Marquette missed Crean. You mean a team that has 14-17 and 21-12 with no NCAA tournament appearance and are 10-2 this year since Archie left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said: What are the odds that Durham isn't running steps literally right now? Hopefully to the point a trash can is nearby. What a selfish act that cannot be tolerated. I’m not convinced Archie holds players accountable. If so I think Greens legs would have fallen off by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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