IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, CTrojan88 said: In games against ‘decent’ competition this year, this team is 4-2. The other 7 wins are absolute garbage. I am including Nebraska as decent even though they only had 7 or 8 scholarship players available. UConn and Notre Dame were included as well. As the season progresses, I think we will see that the wins over those three teams weren’t all that impressive. Pounding your chest for this team being 11-2 is for fans that don’t deal in reality. Do you go to every coach who won against cupcakes and take those wins away from those coaches. I am sure every HOF coach has plenty of wins against so called cupcakes. I remember watching RMK teams playing plenty of cupcakes and saw some in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Indy1987 said: Yes that's why I said "started". Sean Miller might have been top 10 at the time. I dunno. But most I'm sure got raises after the fact. IU invested a lot in Archie from the get go and the jury is still out. Go Hoosiers!!! Flip side.....if he didn't have a top 10 salary, there'd be cries that we're being too cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: This is something that really gets to me. This isn't a pure sales situation. It's a kid's college decision. The salesperson (coach) can only do so much. Like with Garcia.....kid valued going to a Catholic university. There's no hardball, softball or screwball tactic that can overcome that. Maybe Carton felt more comfortable personality wise with Holtman. What's Archie supposed to do? Fake it until he signs the LOI, then watch him transfer in a year because they can't get along? If he can’t recruit he’s not the guy. He’s in a Job that requires him to recruit simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Zlinedavid said: Flip side.....if he didn't have a top 10 salary, there'd be cries that we're being too cheap. True but also moot because it doesn’t match reality. He’s paid to win games and he can’t do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: The fact that Archie hasn't won enough to make us feel superior to Ohio State and Louisville. Does my comparison not show that we have the same record as Louisville against a tougher schedule?. Doesn't that mean that we have had a superior season so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: I think people are angry because those teams hired new coaches and are already right back in the thick of things and better off in some ways. While we are staring down a coach that needs more time than Crean to build a decent team Exactly. I'm all for giving Archie more time, but I'm certainly not going to call people idiots for wondering why this program continues to spin wheels while two programs almost in our back yard are thriving with coaches who have been on the job for similar lengths of time. As for RMK's opinion on Archie's coaching ability, while I'm a big supporter of Knight, he's not infallible when it comes to opinions on basketball. It's possible that Archie could be a phenomenal X's and O's coach, but can't get the intricacies of roster construction right at a P5 school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Do you go to every coach who won against cupcakes and take those wins away from those coaches. I am sure every HOF coach has plenty of wins against so called cupcakes. I remember watching RMK teams playing plenty of cupcakes and saw some in person. The difference is....those coaches beat plenty of good teams on a consistent basis, in addition to the cupcakes. I was simply saying that 11-2 for this team is fools gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Chris Beard is 9-3 against the 289th ranked schedule in KenPom John Calipari is 9-3 against the 252nd ranked schedule in KenPom Chris Mack is 11-2 against the 177th ranked schedule in KenPom Tony Bennett is 10-2 against the 176th ranked schedule in KenPom Archie Miller is 11-2 against the 168th ranked schedule in KenPom Remind me again what the hell we're upset about? 7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: I think people are angry because those teams hired new coaches and are already right back in the thick of things and better off in some ways. While we are staring down a coach that needs more time than Crean to build a decent team Please look at my comparison post and explain to me how Chris Mack has UL more 'in the thick of things' than Archie has IU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: Does my comparison not show that we have the same record as Louisville against a tougher schedule?. Doesn't that mean that we have had a superior season so far? Your words fall on deaf ears my friend. The "wolves" are smelling blood and attacking. TBH, I am somewhat embarrassed by some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: If he can’t recruit he’s not the guy. He’s in a Job that requires him to recruit simple as that. So a top 10 (nationally) class in 2018 and TJD and Franklin last year says he can't recruit? Oh, brother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: Please look at my comparison post and explain to me how Chris Mack has UL more 'in the thick of things' than Archie has IU? Kenpom has them as the number 4 team in the country. We are 40th. Since your using kenpom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Does my comparison not show that we have the same record as Louisville against a tougher schedule?. Doesn't that mean that we have had a superior season so far? Nope. It's that tiny little number to the left of the name that people can or can't see on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: So a top 10 (nationally) class in 2018 and TJD and Franklin last year says he can't recruit? Oh, brother... Well the crown jewel of the 2018 class is gone.... and like Crean was mostly achieved by numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: If he can’t recruit he’s not the guy. He’s in a Job that requires him to recruit simple as that. Well I would say losing a guy to UL or Memphis there is probably more to the story like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Chris Beard is 9-3 against the 289th ranked schedule in KenPom John Calipari is 9-3 against the 252nd ranked schedule in KenPom Chris Mack is 11-2 against the 177th ranked schedule in KenPom Tony Bennett is 10-2 against the 176th ranked schedule in KenPom Archie Miller is 11-2 against the 168th ranked schedule in KenPom Remind me again what the hell we're upset about? @CTrojan88 Please look at the comparison above and explain to me why Archie's 11-2 record is 'fool's gold' (your words) and the records for these other coaches is not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: Well I would say losing a guy to UL or Memphis there is probably more to the story like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Other coaches succeed without 5 stars. You either recruit well like Cal or you develop talent and coach well in game like Bennett. Archie isn’t doing either thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, 5fouls said: So, I ask you what is wrong with 4-2? Extrapolate that over a 30 game season and you get 20-10. Not elite, but not 'Fire the Coach' either. That’s against decent competition which is being generous. Let’s see what happens now that the quality of the competition goes up a notch or two. Based on the past 2 seasons with this coach, I’m. It real confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: True but also moot because it doesn’t match reality. He’s paid to win games and he can’t do it Every coach is paid to win games. Again, no stats to back it up, but I'd guarantee that Beilien, Sean Miller and Bennett were in the top 20 salary-wise. And if you applied the same judgements to them as you're doing to Archie, you'd have fired them after their third season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Well the crown jewel of the 2018 class is gone.... and like Crean was mostly achieved by numbers You said he could not recruit and he showed you that he can and nothing about players staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, 5fouls said: @CTrojan88 Please look at the comparison above and explain to me why Archie's 11-2 record is 'fool's gold' (your words) and the records for these other coaches is not? Because those coaches consistently beat good teams too...in Archie’s first two years at IU, his teams have fallen flat after the first of the year...am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Other coaches succeed without 5 stars. You either recruit well like Cal or you develop talent and coach well in game like Bennett. Archie isn’t doing either thing. Bennetts results his first two seasons were remarkably similar to Archie's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Other coaches succeed without 5 stars. You either recruit well like Cal or you develop talent and coach well in game like Bennett. Archie isn’t doing either thing. It is obvious you can't be objective on Archie and can't see anything but your dislike for him. You can't totally judge any coach on just 2.5 years but you have obviously already made up your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, CTrojan88 said: Because those coaches consistently beat good teams too...in Archie’s first two years at IU, his teams have fallen flat after the first of the year...am I wrong? So MSU who went to the final four is not good since Archie beat them twice last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: It is obvious you can't be objective on Archie and can't see anything but your dislike for him. You can't totally judge any coach on just 2.5 years but you have obviously already made up your mind. I take it you don’t manage people. If people are making the same mistakes time and time again they likely aren’t going to change. Archie’s struggles are the same from two years ago. Unfixed. He recognizes the issues he says the same stupid stuff every postgame. He clearly is at a loss on how to fix them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted December 30, 2019 Report Share Posted December 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Like I heard Leary talking about this morning is that the players today are not like the players of the past. They seem to not handle criticism or handle tough love and will just shut down so more than likely benching them won't change a thing. I think players--and their parents--have changed, but I don't think they are as delicate as Leary is saying. Players want to get better and many know if they are coached hard, they benefit in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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