btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Then bust. We have a window and need to shoot our shot, if it doesn't work out then take a rebuilding year. But the reality is if you cut Wentz and strikeout on Rodgers and Russ, Wentz didn't exactly do anything you can't find at a replacement level on the open market. Even @btownqb thinks we are overrating what impact QBs have, so if that's the case you don't lose much by rolling the dice on getting an elite guy and replacing Wentz with just an average guy and saving money. So you agree he's above average? He's certainly not below average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Sure, but if your worst case scenario if you move on from Wentz and you can get a guy like Cousins as a fallback then you do it, even if the fallback costs more. Colts are in a position to win now, sans the QB and HC. I'm saying Cousins isn't any better then Wentz, so it's not worth the trouble. If he is better, it's marginal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, btownqb said: So you agree he's above average? He's certainly not below average. The last half of the year, crunch time so to speak, he was average at best. To me, it appeared that the last two weeks were too big for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, Steubenhoosier said: The last half of the year, crunch time so to speak, he was average at best. To me, it appeared that the last two weeks were too big for him. Christmas night, on the road, with all his dudes out.... wasn't too big!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, btownqb said: How is 27/7, 2nd in INT rate, top 10 in QBR and top 15 in passer rating mediocre? I would categorize it as exactly what you should expect or hope for with a WR core like that. He was damn near the bottom in his PFF grade, which is probably a better metric than what you're citing. He was also pretty much worse across the board than Rivers was the year before, and everyone said Rivers looked washed up. The only area he beat him was INT, but then he got absolutely smoked in fumbles to make up for it. Not to mention, you brought it up earlier in the thread about Hines, but he got substantially less touches this year. Part of that is because Wentz refused to use him in an offense heavily dependent on the QB reading if the RB gets the ball either on an RPO or a quick pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Then bust. We have a window and need to shoot our shot, if it doesn't work out then take a rebuilding year. But the reality is if you cut Wentz and strikeout on Rodgers and Russ, Wentz didn't exactly do anything you can't find at a replacement level on the open market. Even @btownqb thinks we are overrating what impact QBs have, so if that's the case you don't lose much by rolling the dice on getting an elite guy and replacing Wentz with just an average guy and saving money. So who is the QB that you suggest? I think if they were out there the Colts would have kicked the tires on them Itsay and Ballard had to be sold on Wentz by Frank. I really was hoping it would have been Carr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'm saying Cousins isn't any better then Wentz, so it's not worth the trouble. If he is better, it's marginal. Sure, but if that's your fallback because you strike out on Russ or Rodgers then you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, btownqb said: So you agree he's above average? He's certainly not below average. The mental gymnastics you must go through to knock a guy like Tom Brady and defend Wentz is truly remarkable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: So who is the QB that you suggest? I think if they were out there the Colts would have kicked the tires on them Itsay and Ballard had to be sold on Wentz by Frank. I really was hoping it would have been Carr Rodgers and Russ could both be available this offseason and weren't last offseason. We should go after them, but you can't do that unless you say Wentz isn't the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: He was damn near the bottom in his PFF grade, which is probably a better metric than what you're citing. He was also pretty much worse across the board than Rivers was the year before, and everyone said Rivers looked washed up. The only area he beat him was INT, but then he got absolutely smoked in fumbles to make up for it. Not to mention, you brought it up earlier in the thread about Hines, but he got substantially less touches this year. Part of that is because Wentz refused to use him in an offense heavily dependent on the QB reading if the RB gets the ball either on an RPO or a quick pass. I don't think Wentz made Hines fumbe two punt returns, nor did he make him dance on 2nd and 9 when we need 4 or 5 yards vs. Oakland. Look... you want to move on from Reich and Wentz, I don't. I am more than fine with watching how next season goes. Edited January 11, 2022 by btownqb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, KoB2011 said: Rodgers and Russ could both be available this offseason and weren't last offseason. We should go after them, but you can't do that unless you say Wentz isn't the guy. That isn't ground breaking stuff. We are just going to pick them up in FA without giving any picks? sounds like a great time lol sign me up. You act like I don't think those two are better than Wentz. Duh they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: The mental gymnastics you must go through to knock a guy like Tom Brady and defend Wentz is truly remarkable. A cheater, yes. But, your opinion of Reich and Wentz is absolutely outlandish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Rodgers and Russ could both be available this offseason and weren't last offseason. We should go after them, but you can't do that unless you say Wentz isn't the guy. After we fail at those who is up next? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: So who is the QB that you suggest? I think if they were out there the Colts would have kicked the tires on them Itsay and Ballard had to be sold on Wentz by Frank. I really was hoping it would have been Carr The only difference between Carr and Wentz..... Hunter Renfrow. 3rd and 2-5 it might as well be a first down because they know exactly where the ball is going. Wentz needs that. Pittman is NOT that by a mile. Ertz seems like he could fit that role, well. Who could Carson throw to in those situations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, btownqb said: A cheater, yes. But, your opinion of Reich and Wentz is absolutely outlandish. How do you see through all of the clown makeup you wear, bro? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: How do you see through all of the clown makeup you wear, bro? I have no idea what that means. Edited January 11, 2022 by btownqb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, btownqb said: I don't think Wentz made Hines fumbe two punt returns, nor did he make him dance on 2nd and 9 when we need 4 or 5 yards vs. Oakland. Look... you want to move on from Reich and Wentz, I don't. I am more than fine with watching how next season goes. If that makes me a clown then.... ok. I don't think that's an egregious opinion, and I don't have some love affair with Wentz. I wanted Stafford over him, but if I were Stafford, I would have chosen LAR too. Who wouldn't want to throw to Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods and McVay as your coach!?! I just don't think our roster is complete, and I believe if we get WR2, and slight upgrade at LT, and the two rookie DEs progress.... we are going to be in a really good spot, assuming Wentz is a little more consistent. If it doesn't work, you move on. I guess I don't understand why that's so dumb? Maybe it is. Wentz QBR was literally the exact week 17, as Carr's was week 18. No one remembers Carr's though because his TEAM won the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: He did, but Luck isn't the same kind of QB as Fields is...Not sure how well Harbaugh would coach one of the new "hybrid" QBs like Murray or Jackson... Maybe some of my thinking on Harbaugh is clouded by my hope that he would stay at Michigan...I always like seeing guys return to their roots...I thought he was in it for the long haul... Didn't Harbaugh coach the original hybrid qb Kapernick??? Heck he even coached a very mobile Alex Smith. I think Harbaugh's biggest issue was his relationships both with management/ownership and with his veteran players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, btownqb said: Christmas night, on the road, with all his dudes out.... wasn't too big!? Wasn't the last two weeks. His decision making at critical times suggests that he gets overwhelmed. The left handed attempt to pass out of the end zone that was intercepted, comes to mind. Unfortunately, he didn't learn from that mistake and continued to attempt that move when pressured. The interception he threw v Jacksonville killed any momentum we had, and was one of the worst throws I have seen a pro quarterback make. He was under no pressure, but threw the ball right to the defender. I mentioned previously that his passing accuracy rating ranked him 30th. That's not all on him, but I've seen enough that he is to blame for a fair amount of that....too much for a team that needs solid quarterback play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: After we fail at those who is up next? Does it matter? Wentz graded out towards the bottom in PFF for starting quarterbacks, he is easily replaceable and if we can't find a guy of his caliber we are better off tanking. Wentz lowers this teams ceiling considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, Steubenhoosier said: Wasn't the last two weeks. His decision making at critical times suggests that he gets overwhelmed. The left handed attempt to pass out of the end zone that was intercepted, comes to mind. Unfortunately, he didn't learn from that mistake and continued to attempt that move when pressured. The interception he threw v Jacksonville killed any momentum we had, and was one of the worst throws I have seen a pro quarterback make. He was under no pressure, but threw the ball right to the defender. I mentioned previously that his passing accuracy rating ranked him 30th. That's not all on him, but I've seen enough that he is to blame for a fair amount of that....too much for a team that needs solid quarterback play. But, it was a good thing he threw the left handed pick. If he takes a safety, the game is over. The TD TEN scored there gave us a chance. We weren't getting the ball back, having them punt, THEN going to score a TD. We had zero momentum vs. JAX at that point, but yes 100% an awful, awful pick. I've given you stats that show he was a solid QB for 17 games. I know the Cards game wasn't in the last two weeks... you said the last two were too big and I'm saying if that game isn't too big... how could the other two have been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, btownqb said: If that makes me a clown then.... ok. I don't think that's an egregious opinion, and I don't have some love affair with Wentz. I wanted Stafford over him, but if I were Stafford, I would have chosen LAR too. Who wouldn't want to throw to Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods and McVay as your coach!?! I just don't think our roster is complete, and I believe if we get WR2, and slight upgrade at LT, and the two rookie DEs progress.... we are going to be in a really good spot, assuming Wentz is a little more consistent. If it doesn't work, you move on. I guess I don't understand why that's so dumb? Maybe it is. Wentz QBR was literally the exact week 17, as Carr's was week 18. No one remembers Carr's though because his TEAM won the game. You're right, Carr made winning plays when he had to in Week 18. He drove his team down the field twice in overtime for scores, and he's also been playing without a lot of offensive weapons all year just like Wentz. The reason it's a clown move to hang on is it's demoralizing to a team and a fanbase when you watch a guy choke away a season where the AFC was wide open and the Colts were as dangerous as anyone. This is an offseason with potentially two (maybe even three) franchise changing QBs available when some off seasons don't even have one known commodity at that position available. So yeah, you put all your chips on the table and go get a damn QB when you have a top 5 offensive line, top 2 running back, and a top 10 defense built for playing with leads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, dgambill said: Didn't Harbaugh coach the original hybrid qb Kapernick??? Heck he even coached a very mobile Alex Smith. I think Harbaugh's biggest issue was his relationships both with management/ownership and with his veteran players. I'm not sure Kaepernick was the original "hybrid" (I'd go with Michael Vick) but yeah, Harbaugh did coach him in SF... Not sure what that relationship was like though, because it kinda went south in a hurry... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Does it matter? Wentz graded out towards the bottom in PFF for starting quarterbacks, he is easily replaceable and if we can't find a guy of his caliber we are better off tanking. Wentz lowers this teams ceiling considerably. If it's so easy then tell us who it is. Yes it matters. I personally do not see many options that will give the Colts any more than what Wentz is giving and to get another guy similar what do you have to give up to get him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 11, 2022 Report Share Posted January 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: After we fail at those who is up next? Annnnnnndy Daltonnnnnnnn! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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