2023 NFL Discussion

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

So who out there would you spend that 19 million on? That Patriot team was loaded and had difficult decisions to make on who to pay and keep and who to move on from. The Colts have no such problem. They have a ton of young guys at the more expensive positions….and have one of the most expensive lines in the league. Yet they have plenty of cap space. They have the money. He is arguably their best player..yet you don’t want to pay him. While running backs are undervalued, running the ball is not. It’s still VERY important to winning football. Do you try to build your team around a running back, no. But do you just toss one of the best in the game aside when you have no quality replacement and he is your only big play threat? I won’t want to draft one in the first rd. I don’t want to go into free agency spending a bunch on one…but if I have one..and he is my best player and my roster is set the way ours is with a young qb and I have no one else to pay…I’ll pay him and keep him. The option is do nothing with that cap space or pay your best player. Front load it…be creative. You don’t have to lock up your future to take care of your players. IT would be a huge statement in a league where teams are undervaluing their rb if you are creative and find a way to pay a deserving player. The Giants figured it out because they knew they weren’t going anywhere without Barkley…same applies for Colts.

You know @BGleas is an Eagles fan.  What are the Eagles doing while they have Hurts on a rookie deal?  Loading up on all the other positions that affect winning the most.  This is their time and chance.  Not by throwing a crap ton on a rb.  Its a wild world but its a fact you only have 1 rb on the field at a time and you usually have 4 receivers and a tight end that hopefully catches like a receiver.  You gotta spread that money around and get a guy that can get you pressure on a qb.  Corners that lock down.  A lt that protects your qb back.  Is AR a lefty?  

And these dudes are still available.  

1) Dalvin Cook
2) Kareem Hunt
3) Ezekiel Elliott
4) Leonard Fournette
5) Kenyan Drake

And you can draft another stud in the 2nd or 3rd round next year.  

I'm down for paying him.  Just don't overpay as some form of compassionate statement to the NFL.  No offense but that's just dumb business. 

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

So who out there would you spend that 19 million on? That Patriot team was loaded and had difficult decisions to make on who to pay and keep and who to move on from. The Colts have no such problem. They have a ton of young guys at the more expensive positions….and have one of the most expensive lines in the league. Yet they have plenty of cap space. They have the money. He is arguably their best player..yet you don’t want to pay him. While running backs are undervalued, running the ball is not. It’s still VERY important to winning football. Do you try to build your team around a running back, no. But do you just toss one of the best in the game aside when you have no quality replacement and he is your only big play threat? I won’t want to draft one in the first rd. I don’t want to go into free agency spending a bunch on one…but if I have one..and he is my best player and my roster is set the way ours is with a young qb and I have no one else to pay…I’ll pay him and keep him. The option is do nothing with that cap space or pay your best player. Front load it…be creative. You don’t have to lock up your future to take care of your players. IT would be a huge statement in a league where teams are undervaluing their rb if you are creative and find a way to pay a deserving player. The Giants figured it out because they knew they weren’t going anywhere without Barkley…same applies for Colts.

You keep using the word "undervalued". They're not really undervalued, they're being valued properly. 

The reality is that it's a fairly replaceable position. It's a position with a shorter shelf life. It's a position where it's more valuable to have depth versus one overpaid players. 

Every team has $X million allocated to spend against the cap at each position. The good to great organizations don't compromise on that number at positions that aren't as crucial (running back). 

There's a reason the Patriots, Eagles, Chiefs, Packers, Steelers, etc., rarely give big contracts to running backs. 

Having a strong run game is very important, but you get that with a great offensive line, a mobile quarterback and depth at the RB position. 

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

You know @BGleas is an Eagles fan.  What are the Eagles doing while they have Hurts on a rookie deal?  Loading up on all the other positions that affect winning the most.  This is their time and chance.  Not by throwing a crap ton on a rb.  Its a wild world but its a fact you only have 1 rb on the field at a time and you usually have 4 receivers and a tight end that hopefully catches like a receiver.  You gotta spread that money around and get a guy that can get you pressure on a qb.  Corners that lock down.  A lt that protects your qb back.  Is AR a lefty?  

And these dudes are still available.  

1) Dalvin Cook
2) Kareem Hunt
3) Ezekiel Elliott
4) Leonard Fournette
5) Kenyan Drake

And you can draft another stud in the 2nd or 3rd round next year.  

I'm down for paying him.  Just don't overpay as some form of compassionate statement to the NFL.  No offense but that's just dumb business. 

To add to that, Miles Sanders was 5th in the NFL in rushing yards last season and the Eagles literally just let him walk out of the building for nothing. 

[dgambill]

9 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

What was the Giants compromise?

And to the rest of your post… we’ve been bad since JT got here. We missed the playoffs twice and haven’t won a division. JT had a historically good year on a team that led the league in Pro Bowlers and we missed the playoffs… that’s like a case study on why you don’t pay running backs long term. 

They paid him more this year even without locking him up long term.
 

Bad qb play. We absolutely could have been a playoff team with even mediocre qb play that year and been a tough out.
 

So what qb do you go out and get? we have a rookie…what takes pressure of a young qb? You play to your strengths. We can’t just become this amazing passing offense by wishing it so. You play with the guys you got. We have a top running back. We can play with him or we can not. We are choosing not to…and we didn’t bolster our passing game. Did we use our cap to go out and get a top flight pass rusher, a top wr, a top corner. We did none of those things. The whole point I’m making is while we hsce the cap space and a young qb that needs help why not support him with a running back that just so happens to be all pro level and already on our team? This is a case study in not doing you build your team around a top paid running back…and not in do you pay them….but if EVER pay them. Are there a scenario in which you pay one. I think there are scenarios…and unfortunately the construction and quality of our team we should do it.

Edited August 1, 2023 by dgambill

[NotIThatLives]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

To add to that, Miles Sanders was 5th in the NFL in rushing yards last season and the Eagles literally just let him walk out of the building for nothing. 

And yet somehow the eagles are in everyone's projected top 3 or 4 teams.  

Edited August 1, 2023 by NotIThatLives

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

They paid him more this year even without locking him up long term.
 

Bad qb play. We absolutely could have been a playoff team with even mediocre qb play that year and been a tough out.
 

So what qb do you go out and get? we have a rookie…what takes pressure of a young qb? You play to your strengths. We can’t just become this amazing passing offense by wishing it so. You play with the guys you got. We have a top running back. We can play with him or we can not. We are choosing not to…and we didn’t bolster our passing game. Did we use our cap to go out and get a top flight pass rusher, a top wr, a top corner. We did none of those things. The whole point I’m making is while we hsce the cap space and a young qb that needs help why not support him with a running back that just so happens to be all pro level and already on our team? This is a case study in not doing you build your team around a top paid running back…and not in do you pay them….but if EVER pay them. Are there a scenario in which you pay one. I think there are scenarios…and unfortunately the construction and quality of our team we should do it.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you just let Taylor walk. But you definitely don't overpay for him on a long term deal. 

That would be a huge mistake. Franchise him like the Giants did with Barkley. Fairly big money on short deals with flexibility. 

But, I would definitely let him walk or trade him over committing big money over several years to that position. 

It's just so easy to find replacements at that spot. 

[NotIThatLives]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

They paid him more this year even without locking him up long term.
 

Bad qb play. We absolutely could have been a playoff team with even mediocre qb play that year and been a tough out.
 

So what qb do you go out and get? we have a rookie…what takes pressure of a young qb? You play to your strengths. We can’t just become this amazing passing offense by wishing it so. You play with the guys you got. We have a top running back. We can play with him or we can not. We are choosing not to…and we didn’t bolster our passing game. Did we use our cap to go out and get a top flight pass rusher, a top wr, a top corner. We did none of those things. The whole point I’m making is while we hsce the cap space and a young qb that needs help why not support him with a running back that just so happens to be all pro level and already on our team? This is a case study in not doing you build your team around a top paid running back…and not in do you pay them….but if EVER pay them. Are there a scenario in which you pay one. I think there are scenarios…and unfortunately the construction and quality of our team we should do it.

He's real good.  But why pay him more than a guy like saquon when there is still a really nice list of free agents sitting there and a bunch of studs you can draft and pay rookie contracts on the next 4 years.  It's just not good business.   It's not good business.   It's not personal.  

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/saquon-barkley-25097/

[Steubenhoosier]

Forgotten in this Taylor discussion is that he averaged almost 309 carries a year in college, the one big year he had with the Colts he had 332, and he was well on his way to another 300 carry season before getting hurt last year. This was one of the concerns about him prior to being drafted--how long was his body going to hold up to all those hits. I'm with paying him fairly. I am not interested in making him one of the highest paid rbs in the league. If last year is an indication, all those collisions might finally be catching up to him

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

To add to that, Miles Sanders was 5th in the NFL in rushing yards last season and the Eagles literally just let him walk out of the building for nothing. 

They also have an mvp caliber qb and perhaps the best wr in the NFC. We have neither. We have neither. If we had gone out and invested in all those positions count me in…we didn’t. This isn’t about the Eagles because we don’t hsce their roster. If we are 3 years into AR should we be spending on a rb. No. You can’t compare the Colts to the Eagles. You look at the team you have….the options you have…and make the decision. If I’m the Eagles I let Samders go to…but I’m the Colts…and I have constructed a bad roster. Im not getting rid of my most talented offensive player just because other teams do. 
 

Are we a better team with or without Taylor? Would figuring a way to keep him under contract the next 3 years (perhaps front loading his contract and using more cap this year that won’t effect how we are able to build the team moving forward) be possible. How does letting him sit out help us? Forget the tired wide sweeping arguements about not paying rbs. Be specific how do you make this team better by not having him on the roster. That’s the reality. Don’t just say well you pay other players. What other players? Who did we go out and sign if that was the plan all along? I think we have bungled this whole thing all offseason and alienated a guy we need this year if we want to be competitive and try to win our division.

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting you just let Taylor walk. But you definitely don't overpay for him on a long term deal. 

That would be a huge mistake. Franchise him like the Giants did with Barkley. Fairly big money on short deals with flexibility. 

But, I would definitely let him walk or trade him over committing big money over several years to that position. 

It's just so easy to find replacements at that spot. 

How did the Giants handle Barkley? The negotiated in good faith…they didn’t just say we aren’t going to engage until it’s your time. Communication is key. How we have communicated with Taylor has changed this. Now you got a guy that wants traded or sit out with injury instead of a guy that understands you are willing to engage and even if you don’t agree you even throw him some extra money this year to bring him into camp. Heck maybe you double JT salary just this year…get him into camp and build good will towards next contract…we have the money this year. There are other options than just long term deal or nothing. That has been my whole point all along. We aren’t all these other teams. You have the roster you have. I’d love to be the Eagles…we ARENT. We don’t have the luxury to make that decision. Make a good will gesture..negotiate and engage…maybe pay him more this year and then tell him we will see at the end of the year what a long term deal looks like. We haven’t done that.

[NotIThatLives]

14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

They also have an mvp caliber qb and perhaps the best wr in the NFC. We have neither. We have neither. If we had gone out and invested in all those positions count me in…we didn’t. This isn’t about the Eagles because we don’t hsce their roster. If we are 3 years into AR should we be spending on a rb. No. You can’t compare the Colts to the Eagles. You look at the team you have….the options you have…and make the decision. If I’m the Eagles I let Samders go to…but I’m the Colts…and I have constructed a bad roster. Im not getting rid of my most talented offensive player just because other teams do. 
 

Are we a better team with or without Taylor? Would figuring a way to keep him under contract the next 3 years (perhaps front loading his contract and using more cap this year that won’t effect how we are able to build the team moving forward) be possible. How does letting him sit out help us? Forget the tired wide sweeping arguements about not paying rbs. Be specific how do you make this team better by not having him on the roster. That’s the reality. Don’t just say well you pay other players. What other players? Who did we go out and sign if that was the plan all along? I think we have bungled this whole thing all offseason and alienated a guy we need this year if we want to be competitive and try to win our division.

And maybe this is all smoke and mirrors and they still will.  They have 19 million on cap this year.  

[NotIThatLives]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

How did the Giants handle Barkley? The negotiated in good faith…they didn’t just say we aren’t going to engage until it’s your time. Communication is key. How we have communicated with Taylor has changed this. Now you got a guy that wants traded or sit out with injury instead of a guy that understands you are willing to engage and even if you don’t agree you even throw him some extra money this year to bring him into camp. Heck maybe you double JT salary just this year…get him into camp and build good will towards next contract…we have the money this year. There are other options than just long term deal or nothing. That has been my whole point all along. We aren’t all these other teams. You have the roster you have. I’d love to be the Eagles…we ARENT. We don’t have the luxury to make that decision. Make a good will gesture..negotiate and engage…maybe pay him more this year and then tell him we will see at the end of the year what a long term deal looks like. We haven’t done that.

He did sit in Irsay's luxury bus just the other day at training camp for one hour.  He must not have liked the way it went as he publicly requested a trade right after.  Irsay probably told him the truth.   "Young man, we can still get Dalvin Cook or Elliot for 10 or less.  Your agent is not correctly assessing your value." 

[dgambill]

22 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

And maybe this is all smoke and mirrors and they still will.  They have 19 million on cap this year.  

Still give Taylor an extension or bump up…hopefully. Still go out and sign meaningful free agents? Not really anything on the market.

[dgambill]

24 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

He did sit in Irsay's luxury bus just the other day at training camp for one hour.  He must not have liked the way it went as he publicly requested a trade right after.  Irsay probably told him the truth.   "Young man, we can still get Dalvin Cook or Elliot for 10 or less.  Your agent is not correctly assessing your value." 

Taylor is like 4 years younger than all those guys. He is in his prime. He is a much better back than them. Even after an injury filled season he avg more yards per carry than all of them. I think there is a compromise to be had…I just think the build up to this was not handled very well and now things are at an impass. Irsay said they aren’t negotiating (as no contract numbers have been offered by Colts) when it’s your time it’s your time and it isn’t now..so if that’s the truth yeah. If you won’t negotiate then I want traded.

Edited August 1, 2023 by dgambill

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

How did the Giants handle Barkley? The negotiated in good faith…they didn’t just say we aren’t going to engage until it’s your time. Communication is key. How we have communicated with Taylor has changed this. Now you got a guy that wants traded or sit out with injury instead of a guy that understands you are willing to engage and even if you don’t agree you even throw him some extra money this year to bring him into camp. Heck maybe you double JT salary just this year…get him into camp and build good will towards next contract…we have the money this year. There are other options than just long term deal or nothing. That has been my whole point all along. We aren’t all these other teams. You have the roster you have. I’d love to be the Eagles…we ARENT. We don’t have the luxury to make that decision. Make a good will gesture..negotiate and engage…maybe pay him more this year and then tell him we will see at the end of the year what a long term deal looks like. We haven’t done that.

I think the Colts are willing to negotiate in good faith, it’s the JT camp that isn’t doing that right now.

He is injured and coming off of a bad year, in a new system. He needs to get healthy and perform, not demand a contract based on something he did two years ago that we don’t know he can replicate.

The only unreasonable, bad faith side currently is the JT side. 

[rico]

25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think the Colts are willing to negotiate in good faith, it’s the JT camp that isn’t doing that right now.

He is injured and coming off of a bad year, in a new system. He needs to get healthy and perform, not demand a contract based on something he did two years ago that we don’t know he can replicate.

The only unreasonable, bad faith side currently is the JT side. 

Trade Taylor.  Sign Cook or Hunt.  

[thirdgenhoosier]

3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

He did sit in Irsay's luxury bus just the other day at training camp for one hour.  He must not have liked the way it went as he publicly requested a trade right after.  Irsay probably told him the truth.   "Young man, we can still get Dalvin Cook or Elliot for 10 or less.  Your agent is not correctly assessing your value." 

I'd need to check this, but pretty sure it was announced that the request for a trade came BEFORE the sit down with Irsay.

 

[IU Scott]

4 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

He's real good.  But why pay him more than a guy like saquon when there is still a really nice list of free agents sitting there and a bunch of studs you can draft and pay rookie contracts on the next 4 years.  It's just not good business.   It's not good business.   It's not personal.  

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/saquon-barkley-25097/

The thing is if you are looking at RB's to just get you those 5 yard runs then yes a lot of them to that. What JT does that most can't is take any run and take it 80 yards. To me he is the only play maker on this offense who can score from anywhere on the field.

I would have offer a 3 year 39/42M contract 

[NotIThatLives]

46 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The thing is if you are looking at RB's to just get you those 5 yard runs then yes a lot of them to that. What JT does that most can't is take any run and take it 80 yards. To me he is the only play maker on this offense who can score from anywhere on the field.

I would have offer a 3 year 39/42M contract 

I just don't see the point of paying him more than a guy like saquon.  That's the market for top 3 rbs.  Why go higher?

[IU Scott]

17 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I just don't see the point of paying him more than a guy like saquon.  That's the market for top 3 rbs.  Why go higher?

Because we have to be cap room and we have a QB in a rookie contract. If I were a Giants fan I would say Barkley should get the same amount. The Giants last year wouldn't have made the playoffs without Barkley but they gave 40 Million to an average at best QB

[NotIThatLives]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Because we have to be cap room and we have a QB in a rookie contract. If I were a Giants fan I would say Barkley should get the same amount. The Giants last year wouldn't have made the playoffs without Barkley but they gave 40 Million to an average at best QB

Why overpay one position?  What about the rest of team?  

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Why overpay one position?  What about the rest of team?  

To me it isn't an over pay. When I see third receivers getting 14-15M that is an overpay.  Like I said we have the cap room and a rookie QB so you pay your top player on the team.

Edited August 1, 2023 by IU Scott

[NotIThatLives]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me it isn't an over pay. When I see third receivers getting 14-15M that is an overpay

I don't think think anyone is talking about receivers pay.  

Anyways.  Cook and Elliott aren't even on the list or on a roster yet.  3 and 37 seems to be about the rate.  And the doggone franchise tag is only 10.091.  

Here's the top 10 highest paid this year

• 1. 49ers RB Christian McCaffrey: $16 million

• 2. Saints RB Alvin Kamara: $15 million

• 3. Titans RB Derrick Henry: $12.5 million

• 4. Browns RB Nick Chubb: $12.2 million

• 5. Packers RB Aaron Jones: $11.5 million

• 6. Giants RB Saquon Barkley $10.1 million

• 6. Cowboys RB Tony Pollard: $10.1 million

• 6. Raiders RB Josh Jacobs: $10.1 million

• 9. Cardinals RB James: $7 million

• 10. Panthers RB Miles Sanders: $6.4 million

Edited August 1, 2023 by NotIThatLives

[IU Scott]

42 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I don't think think anyone is talking about receivers pay.  

Anyways.  Cook and Elliott aren't even on the list or on a roster yet.  3 and 37 seems to be about the rate.  And the doggone franchise tag is only 10.091.  

Here's the top 10 highest paid this year

• 1. 49ers RB Christian McCaffrey: $16 million

• 2. Saints RB Alvin Kamara: $15 million

• 3. Titans RB Derrick Henry: $12.5 million

• 4. Browns RB Nick Chubb: $12.2 million

• 5. Packers RB Aaron Jones: $11.5 million

• 6. Giants RB Saquon Barkley $10.1 million

• 6. Cowboys RB Tony Pollard: $10.1 million

• 6. Raiders RB Josh Jacobs: $10.1 million

• 9. Cardinals RB James: $7 million

• 10. Panthers RB Miles Sanders: $6.4 million

To me giving JT 13M a year isn't an overpay because I think he deserves more than Henry at this time.  He is younger and as explosive if not more than Henry.

[rico]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me giving JT 13M a year isn't an overpay because I think he deserves more than Henry at this time.  He is younger and as explosive if not more than Henry.

To me I am giving JT his walking papers.