Texas Postgame Thread

[IU Scott]

Just now, IUCrazy2 said:

Yeah, yeah...terrible fanbase that keeps coming out and caring at an elite level even though there are maybe 6 seasons that have I better than average since RMK was fired 20, let me repeat that, 20 years ago.

The only thing elite about this program anymore is the fanbase.  And it wasn't the fanbase that chased off our two most recent recruiting misses, it was offensive games like this.  

I didn't say solely responsible but i believe we are part of the problem with recruiting.  we have even seen a couple of recruits family and come out and talk about the fans.

[5fouls]

10 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

It seems Brad Stevens signed a contract extension in August. Couldn't find dollar amount.

Look. Stevens is not coming to IU at this point.  I get that.  It does not change the fact that IU screwed the pooch when they didn't jump on him BEFORE he went to the Celtics.  

[madmax]

A few thoughts from me:

1. Said it already here, but I see little point in taking this game as some sort of sign one way or another, just the same as it would have been foolish to do so after Providence. The performance sucked, and it of course was frustrating because we saw a lot of the same issues that we have over the past 3 years. Maybe its a sign of the same old problems that will be here for the rest of the year, but maybe it is not. I, for one, believe that our team is far better then the one that showed up today. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.

2. Neither Billy Donovan or Brad Stephens is walking through the door anytime soon. For those who wish Archie's tenure would end already, who exactly do you think that we will get? I genuinely mean that because I do not see any "sure fire" coaches coming here currently. And I think we should all remember that there are actually very few "sure fire" coaches in existence. Some coaches may excel at one place and do poorly elsewhere. Countless times schools get rid of a coach because they think that they deserve better and end up in a far worse situation. We are in 3 games in to year four-CAM is not getting fired this year barring extreme circumstances.

3. I think this was one of those types of games that if someone early could have knocked down a few shots the outcome could have been much different. Not necessarily a win, but at least competitive. It felt like after the first several minutes of bricks the team collectively lost its assertiveness and confidence.

4. The best part about all of this is that we get to play tomorrow. Nothing worse in sports(for fans or players) then to sit and think about a loss. Somehow I imagine things around here might not be so doom and gloom if we win, and honestly, I think if we're being honest if you told most people before the tournament started that we went 2-1 with two resume building wins, I think that they would be happy.

[Artesian_86]

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

Not just tomorrow but next week, next month,etc....I know some live in a 24 hour world but each season is it's own mechanism it's own living being. Now the season has started I'll judge the season as it goes on and evaluate the program at the end. We've got a very, very good group of players who just got beat today. Onto the next and we can discuss the state of the program talk at end of year.

Of course I view things a little different than most. What Archie did in game 14 of year 2 has no bearing on today. Each season is it's own entity. 

Well said sir. You and I think a lot alike on this board. I’ll admit I’ve always been an optimist.....always try to find the good in everything.  There are fewer and fewer of us it seems. I will say....I didn’t find ANYTHING about this game to merit optimism. That’s why I said flush it.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I didn't say solely responsible but i believe we are part of the problem with recruiting.  we have even seen a couple of recruits family and come out and talk about the fans.

Yep it's always the bad fans....  sheeesh

[PhinithreeMagic]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Our talent includes the #1 ranked point guard in his class, and an absolute stud in TJD who will likely be drafted in the first round, among others, including some very good frosh. Our talent is fine.

Not sure I would agree with that. Our top end talent is fine. The problem is we don't have anything between Burger Boy and 100-200 ranked recruits. Texas has 12 players that were ranked in the Top 100 with a majority of those being Top 50. IU has 4 top 100 recruits on the roster and 2 of them are Freshmen. 

The last time we brought in more than 2 top 100 guys was 7 years ago and included Vonleh, Troy, Stanford Robinson, and Luke Fischer. Year before that was Yogi, Hollowell, and Hanner. We don't consistently bring these guys in and when we do, they haven't stuck around.

[IUCrazy2]

6 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I often refer to emotional intelligence with people. Some have it. Some don't. As I mentioned earlier and you said the same...each season is it's own deal. These 3 game in and I'm out guys?? I don't know. Just really surprising at the reaction to a loss vs a top 20 team. 

I'm more concerned about Al's ankle right now. Not the "State of the Program" posts that apparently in the year 2020 need to be said after 3 games....and for those who say or suggest that posters like me or others have our heads in the sand? I'm pissed but it's game 3. Again. Emotional Intelligence gang. Shoot Knight would have been fired after NYC tourney in 89 season with some of you guys/gals....and that was after 3 titles in 13 years.

Hey, if everytime a bell has rung in the past 3 years I got kicked in the nuts thereafter, I am getting mighty defensive whenever I hear a bell ring.

That game was a bell ringing.  Does it mean a nut punch is coming?  Not necessarily, but it does set off the alarm bells.  Nobody here is jumping ship on the season yet, what some are saying is that this game is something we have seen far too often the past 3 years and in each of those 3 years we got our a$$ kicked early in the year, just like in this game, and the same things were said, "It is early and just a loss..."

Hopefully past is finally not prologue this year.

[Seeking6]

2 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Well said sir. You and I think a lot alike on this board. I’ll admit I’ve always been an optimist.....always try to find the good in everything.  There are fewer and fewer of us it seems. I will say....I didn’t find ANYTHING about this game to merit optimism. That’s why I said flush it.

We sucked today. Nothing good about it except for our defense for the most part. Lose for 30 minutes and we move on. 

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, madmax said:

3. I think this was one of those types of games that if someone early could have knocked down a few shots the outcome could have been much different. Not necessarily a win, but at least competitive. It felt like after the first several minutes of bricks the team collectively lost its assertiveness and confidence.

I keep thinking about early in the2nd half when twice we had a chance to get their lead down to single digits, and both times we missed shots...open shots as I remember...Huge momentum swings there...

[Seeking6]

Just now, IUFLA said:

I keep thinking about early in the2nd half when twice we had a chance to get their lead down to single digits, and both times we missed shots///open shots as I remember...Huge momentum swings there...

Additionally when we failed to show up today and it was 8-6 at the 13 minute mark..haha......if we just get a couple shots or put backs to go down. Who knows? But it's one game. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

Just now, PhinithreeMagic said:

Not sure I would agree with that. Our top end talent is fine. The problem is we don't have anything between Burger Boy and 100-200 ranked recruits. Texas has 12 players that were ranked in the Top 100 with a majority of those being Top 50. IU has 4 top 100 recruits on the roster and 2 of them are Freshmen. 

The last time we brought in more than 2 top 100 guys was 7 years ago and included Vonleh, Troy, Stanford Robinson, and Luke Fischer. Year before that was Yogi, Hollowell, and Hanner. We don't consistently bring these guys in and when we do, they haven't stuck around.

First, you're just going on recruiting service rankings -- they ignore, for example, OG, a first - round draft pick and an extremely good player for IU, among others, Vic, etc. I really don't care whether we have 3 or 4 top 100 recruits in a class -- what you want is class depth with some top flight guys (whether they're ranked in the top 100 by recruiting services or not), surrounded by talented 3-4 year players. That is exactly what CAM is building, and he brought in 3 straight IN Mr. Basketballs including the #1 ranked PG. In contrast, Crean would land several top 100 guys but failed to build depth. I can give you all kinds of examples of top college team that win this way but I'm sure you can pull them up.

[Indykev]

28 minutes ago, BDB said:

The IU admin is black and white.  They won’t pay that type of money. 

New Admin coming

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Additionally when we failed to show up today and it was 8-6 at the 13 minute mark..haha......if we just get a couple shots or put backs to go down. Who knows? But it's one game. 

Wed made 5 field goals in the first half.  That's not showing up to play when you're playing Texas.  We should have more than that against the Lakers.

[OGIUAndy]

10 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Well said sir. You and I think a lot alike on this board. I’ll admit I’ve always been an optimist.....always try to find the good in everything.  There are fewer and fewer of us it seems. I will say....I didn’t find ANYTHING about this game to merit optimism. That’s why I said flush it.

I really, really like this team. Am I disappointed in this game? Oh yeah. But early games do not make a season as we've seen in the past few years with big wins.This team has a different vibe to it than the past few years and I think that will show. Maybe not tomorrow, but I think we have a good team and exciting pieces for this year and the next few. Let's just see how it plays out. 

[Indy1987]

15 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I didn't say solely responsible but i believe we are part of the problem with recruiting.  we have even seen a couple of recruits family and come out and talk about the fans.

You give our fans way too much credit.   

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IU Scott]

Just now, Indy1987 said:

You give our fans way too much credit.   

Go Hoosiers!!!

I am not talking just about this board because it is pretty mild compared to some other sites of social media outlets.

[Artesian_86]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I keep thinking about early in the2nd half when twice we had a chance to get their lead down to single digits, and both times we missed shots///open shots as I remember...Huge momentum swings there...

This is my take in a nutshell....

Momentums are huge in any sport....Like IUFLA said above, when I thought IU had chances to cut into the lead, we missed point blank, layup after layup. Often, Franklin, TJD and Durham would easily get to the hole and the ball was shot but was shot a little too hard or bounced right back to a Texas player.
As a player this effects your confidence then you begin to tighten up and frustration set in. It’s infectious and every single player on the floor and bench feels it too. Momentum, you alway want to be on the good side. Good momentum can move mountains.

[Sea Turtle]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Can anyone deny that Texas was ready to play today from the opening tip and IU was not?

To me, that is the most disappointing thing of all.  

 

The program has bad culture, for sure.

[slojoe]

Yes, UT is very talented, but they exposed our weaknesses.  They made us play half court to get our points.  Our half court offense wasn't up to it.   True most teams won't be able to pressure our guards beyond the 3 point line and have the height and flexibility to guard our bigs, but we are in a world of hurt if we half to get most of our points from our half court offense.

[PhinithreeMagic]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

First, you're just going on recruiting service rankings -- they ignore, for example, OG, a first - round draft pick and an extremely good player for IU, among others, Vic, etc. I really don't care whether we have 3 or 4 top 100 recruits in a class -- what you want is class depth with some top flight guys (whether they're ranked in the top 100 by recruiting services or not), surrounded by talented 3-4 year players. That is exactly what CAM is building, and he brought in 3 straight IN Mr. Basketballs including the #1 ranked PG. In contrast, Crean would land several top 100 guys but failed to build depth. I can give you all kinds of examples of top college team that win this way but I'm sure you can pull them up.

There are always outliers and outliers alone don't deliver sustained success. I do think recruiting services tend to average out over time and are a good indicator of program success/sustainability. The problem with this roster is we are counting on half the team to be outliers like OG or Vic. Don't get me wrong, I really like this freshman class. It's just a lot of pressure to put on lower ranked kids that have a lot of developing to do. 

Our inability to consistently recruit in the 25-75 range class to class is driving a lot of our pain right now and I'm not sure how that can be ignored.

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

This is my take in a nutshell....

Momentums are huge in any sport....Like IUFLA said above, when I thought IU had chances to cut into the lead, we missed point blank, layup after layup. Often, Franklin, TJD and Durham would easily get to the hole and the ball was shot but was shot a little too hard or bounced right back to a Texas player.
As a player this effects your confidence then you begin to tighten up and frustration set in. It’s infectious and every single player on the floor and bench feels it too. Momentum, you alway want to be on the good side. Good momentum can move mountains.

I agree and if we could hit some of those close in shots early we would have gotten the lead.  If that happened the game could have been different.

[Drroogh]

2 hours ago, Indykev said:

There are rules.. .

Rules, no rules in a knife fight

[Steubenhoosier]

Lots of overreacting about one game. What stood out to me was that neither Trayce or Race were strong enough to handle the length and strength of the Texas bigs. This was a game where Brunk would have helped out... if for no other reason, he would have occupied the UT 5 and given the other two better matchups.

On to the next one. The season is long, and certainly not measured by one game 

[dgambill]

31 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

One of those Mr Basketballs in in the NBA, another has had 2 subpar games but was our best player as a freshman, and the 3rd IS a freshman...

Indiana just doesn't have the "brand" yet to go out and pick up a roster full of top 100 kids. Our growth needs to be derived from the talent that Indiana is turning out for now, and in that aspect I think Archie has been quite good. Missed on Kaufman, but has gotten a lot of the in state talent so far. If Archie shows some success, the 5 star out of state kids will start considering us. If not, he'll be let go.

I just shake my head at the people who say "same old stuff" 3 games into the season. That's the great thing about sports to me. Each season is different. Each TEAM is different. The growth throughout the year is different. I personally think we'll improve a lot during the year simply because I think the on the court leadership is much better. 

I get as frustrated as anybody with IU losing, especially like they did today. But, I always try to see the bright side. I think our defense played pretty well. I saw defense from Kristian Lander that I was surprised about...I also saw some lapses, but he'll learn...

 

Still early in the season and it’s just one game...but by the end of the year either the talent is here and he isn’t getting the coaching done or the talent isn’t and the recruiting isn’t good enough. I’ve heard both sides of the arguement from people (not you) that he hasn’t had the talent to win or he is doing a great job with bringing in talent and give him more time. I think he is running out of time though...he needs to be careful...you have a bad season and then you have a one man recruiting class and people will think now is as good as any to replace him because he has no help on the way or no class to worry about decommitting. I have been good today...I didn’t say a thing negative in the game thread and really I am not here...just raising the point we got people moving the goal post already and speaking out of both sides of an arguement. Either we don’t have talent to compete against Texas (that’s Archies job for 3 years to bring in) or we have great talent because we are landing all these Indiana kids and Archie isn’t coaching them up. To hear we don’t have a “brand” and need to rebuild...just hogwash...Texas has a basketball brand??!!! And yet they have a whole roster of top 100 kids. I don’t even think Shaka has done a great job there but people can’t say we need more time to bring in better talent when schools like Texas and others are landing top talent in the country. They don’t have to settle for just in-state talent....why is that ok for a national blue blood like IU. Kids all over the country know about IU...they just don’t want to play here because of our style.

[FWIUFan]

Just my 2 cents:

Very disappointed by outcome just as everyone else.

Not ready to give up on CAM or this team yet.  This team gives me better vibes than any prior to this.

D has looked good

O is poor but more complex.  There are definitely open shots being created but FAR TOO MANY ARE MISSED even when wide open.  Many of them seemed rushed.  I'm just not sure if it was due to the defense or the various players pushing too hard not to make an error or a combination.  Just seemed not to be in rhythm.

FT avg.  If CAM is expecting a lot of dribble/drive then this Definitely needs to be worked on

CAM as coach is a puzzle.  He seems to be be demanding and intense.  However, I still don't see him holding players accountable.  With the slow start and unemotional play, bench the upper classmen ala RMK.  Lose with the players that at least are doing what is wanted and showing some emotion, heart, intensity, and grit.  

I'm not going to come to a conclusion on this years team until mid season.