Fiveoutofsix Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: So I question this statement... If you think Underwood saying to Ayo "Go take over the game" is him "outcoaching" Archie, I don't know what to say... We had our opportunities to win the games against both Northwestern and Illinois...They had guys like Audige and Ayo that performed down the stretch, and we didn't...A coach can draw up a game plan all day and twice on Sunday, but if the ball doesn't go in the basket on a play where the offense produces a good shot, that's not on the coach... Get what you are saying..but, one has to ask themselves why do other programs have players that are doing that and IU is not? The coaches put the best players in position to win games. Those other teams down the stretch got to the 50/50 balls and didn't have wild drives to the basket, and silly turnovers. I supported Archie, and hope this year after seeing what Allen is able to do and Underwood....got to ask what is going on? Lost three games that could of been won. That is where coaching comes in. It's time to see some creativity, some change in approach. Recruiting is going poor...get out there on the media circuit and start out working others. Suck it up and go on the Dakitch show (this is symbolism) That is IU basketball, a grinder that knows this job is bigger than the individual. Out work others and be innovative. This program is on sleep walk. There is no inside access, etc. All the top coaches have personality, amd access. Look at Coach K, Cal, Izzo, etc. IU basketball is IU basketball and you are loosing the younger fans, and once you loose fans, program becomes irrelevant. If Gonzaga can do it, so can IU. What is really getting me - My high school son won't watch any basketball games with me the past two years (he was raised to love IU). He did warch wvery football game. He asked how did IU fo against Illinois? I told them....he said I don't watch because I know the outcome. This is sad and true, younger fan base is loosing attention- Assembly Hall wasn't selling out. The proud tradition is disappearing. And we don't have a coach that has a personality. Give me a guy like Allen to lead this program. And not someone who by the looks of things does not outwork others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowhunter Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 I’ve been a Bruce Pearl guy. He can flat out coach. I usually bring him up every time there is a new coach discussion. I am not sure if Archie will be the guy going forward. He will probably get 5-8 years to get it figured out. More than enough time. I do like his defense but cringe at our guard play other than Franklin for the most part. Archie needs are support and fans need to see improvement. Something has to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Get what you are saying..but, one has to ask themselves why do other programs have players that are doing that and IU is not? We lost our Ayo (and probably an even better version) in the 2019 NBA draft... We lost our inside depth when Forrester and Moore transferred for playing time and Justin Smith went somewhere they'd let him launch 3s... 5 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Those other teams down the stretch got to the 50/50 balls and didn't have wild drives to the basket, and silly turnovers. Those other teams had kids that didn't miss a single shot down the stretch...And Archie can't dive out there after loose balls...I will say, if it was me, I'd ask both Durham and Phinisee if they ever considered passing on the dribble drive...I'd ask everybody on the team beside Armaan if they ever took a charge...It wasn't Archie who dribbled the ball off his leg during a crucial possession in the Northwestern game...I'm sure those things have been asked before...the only issue I have is that I think he should use the bench more as a motivator...I think he has with Rob (I mentioned the time disparity between he and Al in another thread) and I do think part of the reason TJD was on the bench up until the 8 minute mark of the 2nd was because of the lack of hustle that @coachadragnapointed out in this video... 11 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Recruiting is going poor...get out there on the media circuit and start out working others. This year...but didn't we address 2 concerns that other have had...inside depth (Duncomb) and shooting (Stewart)...did we miss on Kaufman and Miller? Yes, but I don't think either one of those kids is a program changer on their own... 14 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: This program is on sleep walk. There is no inside access, etc. All the top coaches have personality, amd access. Look at Coach K, Cal, Izzo, etc. Bob Knight didn't exactly open the door and hold daily press conferences... 16 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: This is sad and true, younger fan base is loosing attention- Assembly Hall wasn't selling out. The proud tradition is disappearing. And we don't have a coach that has a personality. Yet we were 10th in the nation in attendance last year... Coach Krzyzewski has "personality?" He's as dry as toast most of the time. Neither he nor Coach Wright (although he's a nice dresser) or Coach Bennett have ever won a game by their personality... I suggest some of you go on YouTube and watch some of Archie's instructional videos like this one and see if you think he can teach basketball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: I think the thing that galls me the most is the insinuation that Archie just can't coach... Christ, his pedigree looks like Mona Lisa Vito's for car mechanics...Dad a very successful high school coach...brother a successful high major college coach...played as an undersized guard in an ACC program and held his own...Served apprenticeships at Western Kentucky, Arizona State, Ohio State...Had a very successful run at Dayton... Bottom line, the guy knows how to coach basketball...As I pointed out in another thread, I wish they had a stat for missing open shots that the offense generated...Bet we'd lead the B1G...and we know about the defense... Then we get "the sky is falling" on the recruiting front because we missed out on a couple this year...as I said, just ignore Romero Langford, TJD, and Khristian Lander, along with glue guys like Race Thompson, Anthony Leal, and Trey Galloway... I'm behind Archie 100%...I think we got a brilliant young coach that is still on the ascent in his career...Might not be right on the timetable of the more restless people on this or any other forum, but good things come to those who wait... Archie's recruiting has yet to translate into TEAM success on the court. Romeo's gone, that team accomplished nothing. TJD is projected to be gone after this season, and at current trajectory team success will be minimal for his time here as well. Lander TBD. Race, Galloway, and Leal are probably role players on a good team, not 1st or 2nd option. So I'd say the misses in 2021 are very significant because we aren't building or amassing higher end talent, just revolving door of 1 guy without much support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said: Romeo's gone So should Archie have not recruited Romeo and went for someone who would have probably stayed longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, IUFLA said: So should Archie have not recruited Romeo and went for someone who would have probably stayed longer? If there was more support on that team Romeo could have been a special player. And I'm not blaming Archie for that year so much as expressing concern for similar problems over the next couple years. One caveat, IF Lander develops as some expect over the next year to become our next all-BIG 10 type guy AND Franklin keeps up his recent play to become a consistent 15+ ppg scorer, next year could be a significant step up from the last 3. College basketball is a guard driven sport and our guard play under Archie has been pretty poor. If those 2 develop into what they could be we may be in business with or without TJD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said: If there was more support on that team Romeo could have been a special player. And I'm not blaming Archie for that year so much as expressing concern for similar problems over the next couple years. One caveat, IF Lander develops as some expect over the next year to become our next all-BIG 10 type guy AND Franklin keeps up his recent play to become a consistent 15+ ppg scorer, next year could be a significant step up from the last 3. College basketball is a guard driven sport and our guard play under Archie has been pretty poor. If those 2 develop into what they could be we may be in business with or without TJD. Well, Romeo had an injury too... I asked the question because, and I've said this before, Romeo was a very important recruit, not only for what he brought to the basketball court, but the appearance...If Archie had whiffed on him, people would still be howling...And the appearance to other prospective recruits, both from Indiana and nation wide was invaluable... And next year the Stewart kid should make our shooting better, along with Armaan maintaining consistency...And I agree, next year could be a special one...consider that we could have a starting 5 of TJD Race Armaan Stewart Lander with possibly Joey and Duncomb for the frontcourt, Jerome splitting time, and Rob, Trey, Geronimo, and Leal vying for significant minutes in the backcourt... And I agree...even without TJD we'd be in good shape...But with him I think we can be B1G title contenders and have an impact on the tournament... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, IUFLA said: We lost our Ayo (and probably an even better version) in the 2019 NBA draft... We lost our inside depth when Forrester and Moore transferred for playing time and Justin Smith went somewhere they'd let him launch 3s... Those other teams had kids that didn't miss a single shot down the stretch...And Archie can't dive out there after loose balls...I will say, if it was me, I'd ask both Durham and Phinisee if they ever considered passing on the dribble drive...I'd ask everybody on the team beside Armaan if they ever took a charge...It wasn't Archie who dribbled the ball off his leg during a crucial possession in the Northwestern game...I'm sure those things have been asked before...the only issue I have is that I think he should use the bench more as a motivator...I think he has with Rob (I mentioned the time disparity between he and Al in another thread) and I do think part of the reason TJD was on the bench up until the 8 minute mark of the 2nd was because of the lack of hustle that @coachadragnapointed out in this video... This year...but didn't we address 2 concerns that other have had...inside depth (Duncomb) and shooting (Stewart)...did we miss on Kaufman and Miller? Yes, but I don't think either one of those kids is a program changer on their own... Bob Knight didn't exactly open the door and hold daily press conferences... Yet we were 10th in the nation in attendance last year... Coach Krzyzewski has "personality?" He's as dry as toast most of the time. Neither he nor Coach Wright (although he's a nice dresser) or Coach Bennett have ever won a game by their personality... I suggest some of you go on YouTube and watch some of Archie's instructional videos like this one and see if you think he can teach basketball... Archie could demand a charge, plain and simple ...and have it part of his philosophy or culture. Or, bring in a Shur like player to do it. There is a reason why some programs are known for it and some are not. Knight had TV shows, golf shows, etc. He had charisma and many of his antics were purposeful. He went iut of his way to bring donkeys on shows, and whips to press conferences. Coach K, the same, he is all over the media and ESPN and even has his own radio show that coach Allen visited. He is interviewed all the time. He hosts non stop clinics, Duke has a marketing team that always is giving access to practice, etc. As a basketball coach, I own Archies Championship clinic videos and 100s others. My bins are filled with vhs tapes through digital. They are okay and honestly just goes through the motions. I hope Archie becomes the guy, I really do. I just want to see something change and adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Knight had TV shows, golf shows, etc. Yes, he always looked so pleased to be sitting there with poor Chuck Marlowe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, IUFLA said: Yes, he always looked so pleased to be sitting there with poor Chuck Marlowe... Ha! That's funny, but I do think that was part of his humor. I do think he liked getting the cash for those more than taking away from watching game tape and hunting trips.....but he still did it. That is what an IU coach should do...be the face, be all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 37 minutes ago, Bowhunter said: I’ve been a Bruce Pearl guy. He can flat out coach. I usually bring him up every time there is a new coach discussion. I am not sure if Archie will be the guy going forward. He will probably get 5-8 years to get it figured out. More than enough time. I do like his defense but cringe at our guard play other than Franklin for the most part. Archie needs are support and fans need to see improvement. Something has to give. No way in Hell Pearl should ever be the coach at IU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiveoutofsix Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yes, he always looked so pleased to be sitting there with poor Chuck Marlowe... Oh, David Kaplan, Chicago ESPN radio, confirmed a few weeks ago that he use to do radio shows from the toliet and they would provide long cords for him. Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said: Oh, David Kaplan, Chicago ESPN radio, confirmed a few weeks ago that he use to do radio shows from the toliet and they would provide long cords for him. Ha! No wonder I always thought "this interview stinks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDIUFAN Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, IU Scott said: No way in Hell Pearl should ever be the coach at IU I think, Bruce Pearl, has been in NCAA trouble at every school he’s coached at! Why would we want that at IU. Hell let’s bring Sampson back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: So should Archie have not recruited Romeo and went for someone who would have probably stayed longer? No...but out of Al, Smith, Moore and Romeo, Rob, Anderson, Hunter, Forrester and Race we got one real good player still on the roster. Just like the nfl it’s about building a roster. You miss on a couple drafts then you are going to suffer. It gets covered up because Romeo and Morgan helped us win right away and then so has Trayce but once they are gone you are left with those surrounding foundational players...and most are gone or underperforming. I think last years class will have more impact on our success then Archies first two. The question then becomes...since he basically muffed the 21 class what will happen in 23-24 when that class was suppose to lead us?? Hope we can land some good kids in the 22 class to help supplement us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Bob said: I think, Bruce Pearl, has been in NCAA trouble at every school he’s coached at! Why would we want that at IU. Hell let’s bring Sampson back! Such egregious bbq's. What else? An assistant arranging a 10k payment? Would you want the holy saint Coach K instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 5 hours ago, IUFLA said: So I question this statement... If you think Underwood saying to Ayo "Go take over the game" is him "outcoaching" Archie, I don't know what to say... We had our opportunities to win the games against both Northwestern and Illinois...They had guys like Audige and Ayo that performed down the stretch, and we didn't...A coach can draw up a game plan all day and twice on Sunday, but if the ball doesn't go in the basket on a play where the offense produces a good shot, that's not on the coach... My problem is the personnel he utilizes and the lack of creativity on offense. If I had the time I would do film breakdowns but I don’t. It reminds me of the vanilla offense McMillan ran with the Pacers last year. Guys standing and watching the ball. Yes good teams have players that make plays Dow the stretch but do something to get the ball out of that players hands. Double them, switch all guard to guard screens, or something. Also the fact that TJD still can’t do anything except finish with his left hand is a problem and teams with good bigs will continue to make for very inefficient nights for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just now, DC2345 said: My problem is the personnel he utilizes and the lack of creativity on offense. If I had the time I would do film breakdowns but I don’t. It reminds me of the vanilla offense McMillan ran with the Pacers last year. Guys standing and watching the ball. Yes good teams have players that make plays Dow the stretch but do something to get the ball out of that players hands. Double them, switch all guard to guard screens, or something. Also the fact that TJD still can’t do anything except finish with his left hand is a problem and teams with good bigs will continue to make for very inefficient nights for him. @BGleas and I pointed out in the game thread, 2nd half. We had all 5 guys standing, no movement, no cutting, no nothing. Just standing for at least 5 solid seconds. Maybe we need a receivers coach to come in and teach them cutting angles or how to cut when a play breaks down. The concept isn't too far off. Play breaks down. Time winding down before 5 second call is made. Move move move so your qb(guy with the ball) can find you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: @BGleas and I pointed out in the game thread, 2nd half. We had all 5 guys standing, no movement, no cutting, no nothing. Just standing for at least 5 solid seconds. Maybe we need a receivers coach to come in and teach them cutting angles or how to cut when a play breaks down. The concept isn't too far off. Play breaks down. Time winding down before 5 second call is made. Move move move so your qb(guy with the ball) can find you. That’s a creative idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 hours ago, IUFLA said: Well, Romeo had an injury too... I asked the question because, and I've said this before, Romeo was a very important recruit, not only for what he brought to the basketball court, but the appearance...If Archie had whiffed on him, people would still be howling...And the appearance to other prospective recruits, both from Indiana and nation wide was invaluable... And next year the Stewart kid should make our shooting better, along with Armaan maintaining consistency...And I agree, next year could be a special one...consider that we could have a starting 5 of TJD Race Armaan Stewart Lander with possibly Joey and Duncomb for the frontcourt, Jerome splitting time, and Rob, Trey, Geronimo, and Leal vying for significant minutes in the backcourt... And I agree...even without TJD we'd be in good shape...But with him I think we can be B1G title contenders and have an impact on the tournament... Probably not the thread for debating lineups, but I think Galloway is here to stay, at least he would be if I was the coach. I think he's going to be a really important player over the next 3.5 years. One of those guys that everything just looks and works better when he's on the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, BGleas said: Probably not the thread for debating lineups, but I think Galloway is here to stay, at least he would be if I was the coach. I think he's going to be a really important player over the next 3.5 years. One of those guys that everything just looks and works better when he's on the court. I agree...a Zach McRoberts with more basketball skills... And I didn't mean to be dismissive of Trey in the post you quoted...Trey may start and he may not...but he'll get significant minutes either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I agree...a Zach McRoberts with more basketball skills... And I didn't mean to be dismissive of Trey in the post you quoted...Trey may start and he may not...but he'll get significant minutes either way... Semantics, but I'm not sure about the McRoberts comparison, I think that's a disservice to Galloway (and I don't mean that as a shot at McRoberts). I'd more call Galloway a poor man's Ty Jerome from UVA. Galloway is a playmaker that is just scratching the surface. Agree with you though, either way he's going to get significant minutes going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, BGleas said: Probably not the thread for debating lineups, but I think Galloway is here to stay, at least he would be if I was the coach. I think he's going to be a really important player over the next 3.5 years. One of those guys that everything just looks and works better when he's on the court. I like Galloway and thought he has played well. When I was listening to Leary after the game he was not real kind toward Galloway. He said he wouldn't have him in the lineup if he keeps turning down open looks. He said by not taking open shots he is hurting the offense. Him and Evans were pretty hard on the players for their lack of offensive mentality. They day you can't be afraid to miss shots and you have to.dhoot when open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I like Galloway and thought he has played well. When I was listening to Leary after the game he was not real kind toward Galloway. He said he wouldn't have him in the lineup if he keeps turning down open looks. He said by not taking open shots he is hurting the offense. Him and Evans were pretty hard on the players for their lack of offensive mentality. They day you can't be afraid to miss shots and you have to.dhoot when open I don't disagree with that assessment, but he's a freshmen that's still figuring out the game. He had a couple times where he drove and should have gone up strong instead of looking to pass, but he'll figure that out. But again him being a freshmen is why I can overlook those things as he develops, as opposed to being harder on a junior Phinisee or senior Durham. Those guys should have their issues figured out. I think it's pretty clear that the pace and ball movement are much better with Galloway in the game. He's a creative and high level passer and he is aggressive getting into the lane to make things happen. I'll take that as he develops more confidence in his scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, BGleas said: I don't disagree with that assessment, but he's a freshmen that's still figuring out the game. He had a couple times where he drove and should have gone up strong instead of looking to pass, but he'll figure that out. But again him being a freshmen is why I can overlook those things as he develops, as opposed to being harder on a junior Phinisee or senior Durham. Those guys should have their issues figured out. I think it's pretty clear that the pace and ball movement are much better with Galloway in the game. He's a creative and high level passer and he is aggressive getting into the lane to make things happen. I'll take that as he develops more confidence in his scoring. I agree and Leary was not real happy with any of the guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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