BobSaccamanno Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) 5 hours ago, IUFLA said: Mike Woodson is NOT going to quit, or retire for that matter. I think some of you overlook that the guy got off of back surgery and 6 weeks later led IU to a Big 10 championship and was the Big 10 PoY. That's not to say, as @Artesian_86 iterated, that because he's "IU Royalty" he shouldn't be canned if the situation warrants (it doesn't), but it does show a toughness that you can't overlook. He's mentally tough and he's a competitor...Quitting isn't in him Why did we fire Archie Miller? Because he could not beat Purdue or get to the NCAA tournament. Yet we get a guy who accomplishes both of those tasks in his first two years, and because we have one down year, we're ready for Dolson to go back to the donors, ask for another $12.5 million dollars to cover what would be essentially admitting he made a mistake. He's not going to do that. You know I have the highest respect for you and I think it’s 100% right for you to represent the other side of the argument. Rather have that than an echo chamber. I say it all the time, but I think each poster here represents a certain percentage of fans. There are people who think like Scott does, you do, analytics guys, or the most negative fan does. But we can all discuss here and have that give and take. I think it’s good that we have all views healthily represented. Just my two cents. Regarding Dolson, hypothetically I don’t know how people would change their views on him if it were clear that the chair of the Board of Trustees inserted himself into the decision to hire Woody. I deduce that from a variety of factors that would take too long for me to write up. But I base it on Dolson’s decision making in general, Woody’s actions, and guard rails that were initially implemented. Edited February 23 by BobSaccamanno 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawatchHoosier Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, IUFLA said: On average, it takes 10.5 years for a coach to reach the Final 4... Hire me. I’m 39 and guaranteed a final four by 50. Edited February 23 by SawatchHoosier 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGIUAndy Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) 44 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: You know I have the highest respect for you and I think it’s 100% right for you to represent the other side of the argument. Rather have that than an echo chamber. I say it all the time, but I think each poster here represents a certain percentage of fans. There are people who think like Scott does, you do, analytics guys, or the most negative fan does. But we can all discuss here and have that give and take. I think it’s good that we have all views healthily represented. Just my two cents. Regarding Dolson, hypothetically I don’t know how people would change their views on him if it were clear that the chair of the Board of Trustees inserted himself into the decision to hire Woody. I deduce that from a variety of factors that would take too long for me to write up. But I base it on Dolson’s decision making in general, Woody’s actions, and guard rails that were initially implemented. I agree. Bringing in Matta and even Fife (not Woody's guys) indicated it was Woody's job BUT with conditions. Regardless, Dolson has to think about that when setting up the buyout amounts and the extension. He's the AD. Edited February 23 by OGIUAndy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 27 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said: Regarding Dolson, hypothetically I don’t know how people would change their views on him if it were clear that the chair of the Board of Trustees inserted himself into the decision to hire Woody. I deduce that from a variety of factors that would take too long for me to write up. But I base it on Dolson’s decision making in general, Woody’s actions, and guard rails that were initially implemented. There lies the rub... If the story that Buckner inserted himself is true, then I view Dolson in the same light I do Greenspan when he allegedly gave into Adam Herbert in the Sampson hire. Ultimately no matter what happens, the results lie at your feet.. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 One thing that sucks to think about is that for us to objectively have as many coaching candidates as possible, we would basically need Ohio St and Michigan to finish strong to complicate things for them and hopefully force them to keep Howard and Diebler. Which essentially means we would have to hope IU can finish in the bottom 4, or more specifically, the bottom 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 32 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said: I agree. Bringing in Matta and even Fife (not Woody's guys) indicated it was Woody's job BUT with conditions. Regardless, Dolson has to think about that when setting up the buyout amounts and the extension. He's the AD. Right. Dolson lost me with the $1M pay raise last summer making CMW the third highest paid coach in the B1G. Totally unnecessary and foolish. No one was going to hire him away. He was already well compensated. No need to put him in top 10 in CBB, based on the results and circumstances. A good AD would have just added to incentive bonuses. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 16 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said: One thing that sucks to think about is that for us to objectively have as many coaching candidates as possible, we would basically need Ohio St and Michigan to finish strong to complicate things for them and hopefully force them to keep Howard and Diebler. Which essentially means we would have to hope IU can finish in the bottom 4, or more specifically, the bottom 2. See? I don't get this line of thinking at all... I mean, @Hoosierdave I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think, but #1 you're kicking dirt on the "corpse" before it stops breathing, and #2 I would never, under any circumstances, root for IU to tank or lose to achieve some sort of perceived advantage in what may or may not be a coaching search... I really just don't get it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 4 hours ago, IUFLA said: I thought we were better off without 2 bigs on the floor? If you had 3 great guards/wings it wouldn’t matter MR at the 5 is a mess on defense/rebounding What are the positives in bringing back CMW? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, Purdue7 said: If you had 3 great guards/wings it wouldn’t matter MR at the 5 is a mess on defense/rebounding What are the positives in bringing back CMW? "Best team money can buy" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 25 minutes ago, IUFLA said: See? I don't get this line of thinking at all... I mean, @Hoosierdave I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think, but #1 you're kicking dirt on the "corpse" before it stops breathing, and #2 I would never, under any circumstances, root for IU to tank or lose to achieve some sort of perceived advantage in what may or may not be a coaching search... I really just don't get it... That’s fine, never thought in my life I would be rooting against my own team either lol. As the saying goes, “drastic times call for drastic measures.” Let’s apply the same scenario with football-do you think it would have benefited our football program in the long run for Allen to win a couple more games this season and get another year? No, him losing embarrassingly and losing the confidence from his players + fans made the decision very easy for Dolson and company to move on. The result? A coach who in the span of less than 3 months completely flipping the culture and trajectory. So yes, while it pains me to say that, I think ultimately us continuing to lose would result in the same scenario. I’ll gladly take the temporary pain and suffering if it results in long term happiness. Friendly reminder Ohio St is already talking to May and us delaying the inevitable with letting Woody go could result in Ohio St applying pressure and forcing May to go there because IU dragged their feet and kept May waiting too long. I can’t imagine what this board would be like if May went elsewhere and we swing and miss on the other targets (Pearl etc) and have to scramble to find the next coach. Fans would pack it in and say this program is officially dead. I would much rather have a situation where Dolson can look Buckner and friends in the face and say “we tried it your way, I gave it as much time and patience as I could, but it’s time to move forward and save this program before it’s too late.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: "Best team money can buy" Actually a bad investment You are saying it’s about player development? Maybe check how WBB or football do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 23 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said: That’s fine, never thought in my life I would be rooting against my own team either lol. As the saying goes, “drastic times call for drastic measures.” Let’s apply the same scenario with football-do you think it would have benefited our football program in the long run for Allen to win a couple more games this season and get another year? No, him losing embarrassingly and losing the confidence from his players + fans made the decision very easy for Dolson and company to move on. The result? A coach who in the span of less than 3 months completely flipping the culture and trajectory. So yes, while it pains me to say that, I think ultimately us continuing to lose would result in the same scenario. I’ll gladly take the temporary pain and suffering if it results in long term happiness. Friendly reminder Ohio St is already talking to May and us delaying the inevitable with letting Woody go could result in Ohio St applying pressure and forcing May to go there because IU dragged their feet and kept May waiting too long. I can’t imagine what this board would be like if May went elsewhere and we swing and miss on the other targets (Pearl etc) and have to scramble to find the next coach. Fans would pack it in and say this program is officially dead. I would much rather have a situation where Dolson can look Buckner and friends in the face and say “we tried it your way, I gave it as much time and patience as I could, but it’s time to move forward and save this program before it’s too late.” The difference is that Tom Allen has a full 7 years to perform, was 2 years removed from his high water season (and one of two where he had a winning record)... One or two more games weren't going to save him... Like I say, I'm not going to belabor it, but I can't imagine myself rooting for IU or any IU coach or team to fail... I just don't have that in me... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: See? I don't get this line of thinking at all... I mean, @Hoosierdave I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think, but #1 you're kicking dirt on the "corpse" before it stops breathing, and #2 I would never, under any circumstances, root for IU to tank or lose to achieve some sort of perceived advantage in what may or may not be a coaching search... I really just don't get it... I get the logic, I just don't support the idea. Play, fight, win. Show some friggin pride. Edited February 24 by NotIThatLives 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 33 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said: That’s fine, never thought in my life I would be rooting against my own team either lol. As the saying goes, “drastic times call for drastic measures.” Let’s apply the same scenario with football-do you think it would have benefited our football program in the long run for Allen to win a couple more games this season and get another year? No, him losing embarrassingly and losing the confidence from his players + fans made the decision very easy for Dolson and company to move on. The result? A coach who in the span of less than 3 months completely flipping the culture and trajectory. So yes, while it pains me to say that, I think ultimately us continuing to lose would result in the same scenario. I’ll gladly take the temporary pain and suffering if it results in long term happiness. Friendly reminder Ohio St is already talking to May and us delaying the inevitable with letting Woody go could result in Ohio St applying pressure and forcing May to go there because IU dragged their feet and kept May waiting too long. I can’t imagine what this board would be like if May went elsewhere and we swing and miss on the other targets (Pearl etc) and have to scramble to find the next coach. Fans would pack it in and say this program is officially dead. I would much rather have a situation where Dolson can look Buckner and friends in the face and say “we tried it your way, I gave it as much time and patience as I could, but it’s time to move forward and save this program before it’s too late.” I won't openly root for us to lose but if we lose it won't bother me that much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Hoosierdave said: One thing that sucks to think about is that for us to objectively have as many coaching candidates as possible, we would basically need Ohio St and Michigan to finish strong to complicate things for them and hopefully force them to keep Howard and Diebler. Which essentially means we would have to hope IU can finish in the bottom 4, or more specifically, the bottom 2. There will always be other programs hiring coaches, it doesn’t matter if it’s this year or a future one. There will also be brand new coaches who pop up as popular candidates every year (Dusty May was just starting to pop up as a hot coaching name this time last year). What Michigan and Ohio State do doesn’t concern me in the slightest, and should have very little if any impact on what IU does IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 Buckner is in a tough spot as chair of the BoT with Woodson. He loves the university and can’t be giving the impression of being a part of a cabal who got his buddy a job and kept him there. Buckner may also be the chair but he has to answer to the other trustees. The other trustees may have deferred to QB as a former player but now the results are there. So that friendship might actually cut against Woody where all benefits of the doubt are removed because QB can’t give the appearance of bias or being compromised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 3 hours ago, IUFLA said: See? I don't get this line of thinking at all... I mean, @Hoosierdave I'm not trying to tell anyone how to think, but #1 you're kicking dirt on the "corpse" before it stops breathing, and #2 I would never, under any circumstances, root for IU to tank or lose to achieve some sort of perceived advantage in what may or may not be a coaching search... I really just don't get it... Woodson is a dead man walking. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: The difference is that Tom Allen has a full 7 years to perform, was 2 years removed from his high water season (and one of two where he had a winning record)... One or two more games weren't going to save him... Like I say, I'm not going to belabor it, but I can't imagine myself rooting for IU or any IU coach or team to fail... I just don't have that in me... no worries, it’s not like I don’t understand or respect your perspective. Not expecting everyone to agree with me. I personally think message boards filled with a variety of opinions and perspectives is healthier than everyone enabling the same belief. Like I said, happy to acknowledge it makes me feel bad and gross saying it. I would much rather prefer knowing that Woody is gone regardless after the season but we finish strong and the players/staff bust ass so Woody can walk out on a high note with this head held high. But based on his recent comments about not going anywhere and those in his corner, I just don’t see that happening. To be clear, I very much like Mike Woodson the person. Seems like a contagious personality with a good sense of humor and confidence/swagger. Would be fun to have some drinks with and talk basketball and life. Quality family man too who genuinely cares about his staff and players. Additionally, I have tremendous respect for Woodson leaving his NBA gig to take on a task that was doomed to fail from the start (not his fault). It was a high risk/high reward scenario and it’s admirable that he bet on himself. While it would have been the perfect story for him to return IU to greatness, it unfortunately didn’t happen. I do want to note I don’t condone a lot of the other actions people have taken. I don’t agree with going to a game to boo players and coaches. If you’re that upset, do something constructive and donate your tickets to a local boys and girls club and give some kids some chance to have fun and grow their IU fandom. I also don’t respect people heading to social media to voice their frustrations. You can look in another thread and see I screenshotted a long time ago a tweet trill Donovan made about asking IU fans how they felt about Woodson so far. I felt it was cringeworthy and only made matters worse. I just simply want to move on from Woodson and feel that losing results in the most amicable situation for him and Dolson. Edited February 24 by Hoosierdave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 12 hours ago, IUFLA said: Y'all have short memories...Miller had the "generational player" and finished 12-17 and 7-12 in the Big 10 in his last year... who was that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 7 hours ago, SawatchHoosier said: Hire me. I’m 39 and guaranteed a final four by 50. no, not fast enough.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 On 2/22/2024 at 11:47 PM, Indykev said: After watching the girls play, it got me thinking. maybe we hire Dawn Staley the womens coach of the #1 team in the country to replace Woody. Man that would check a lot of boxes. Sorry for this post, i was totally kidding...i dont want to hear a womens voice calling a mens game, i sure dont want to see one coaching a mens game. If i wanted to be annoyed by a women a couple of nights a week i would have stayed married to one of them..... 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 7 hours ago, Indykev said: who was that? this is what i was wondering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 7 hours ago, Indykev said: who was that? clearly no one as good as JHS or TJD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 8 hours ago, Indykev said: who was that? You're not worth the time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUDan93 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 8 hours ago, Indykev said: Sorry for this post, i was totally kidding...i dont want to hear a womens voice calling a mens game, i sure dont want to see one coaching a mens game. If i wanted to be annoyed by a women a couple of nights a week i would have stayed married to one of them..... I sense a lot of anger and hate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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