NIL, the AD, and where does the line get drawn (Hoosier Hysterics)

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

….But they wouldn’t win with average players. 

@HoosierDom said it in the most simple way:

Revenue depends on success and success depends on players. 

Good players and good programs go hand in hand. They owe their success to each other. 

 

Why wouldn't they because they would still get the best players available. I am saying that the top players that we are looking talking about with the NIL are no longer in college. The rest of the best would still go to the top programs.  Say if the best players in college use to play for teams like Belmont or Davidson.  If those type of players are on UK and they are still a top team UK fans would still go. You can say that for IU or any other top teams. 

How do you explain AH being full during the first few years under Cream and still had the fan base behind them 

Players come and go but the constant is the name on the front of the jersey 

I can tell you who won all the championships since the early 70's but couldn't tell you their whole rosters.

Edited December 16, 2022 by IU Scott

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, HoosierDom said:

College basketball and football are money making endeavors, not charities, the fact that they aren't taxed accordingly is insane.

I don't understand why competitive sports are something that schools are engaged in. Basketball and football at least bring in money and exposure (mostly positive), so I get why a school would want those things. I see no reason for other sports to exist at the college level. I don't think many here will agree.

 

How it is going I am going to be more interested in the non revenue sports 

[MoyeCowbell]

1 hour ago, HoosierDom said:

I absolutely agree. The thing I don't get about sports, is why spend so much money on them? Why recruit for them, why have student spend so much time doing something that isn't academic? My roommate in school was just stupid good at an online video game. Should schools recruit him for that? Should they pay his coach 500k a year so our team in that game wins? I certainly think they should not. If he wants to play, that's great. If he wanted to form some sort of a school club, that's okay, too. But we shouldn't send him all over the country to play. We shouldn't essentially force him to spend huge amounts of time playing. Video games have nothing to do with the purpose of a university, and neither do sports. 

There are so many elements about sports that have such high merit, I'm not even sure where to begin. And even to say that they [aren't] academic isn't completely true, fair or accurate. In addition to the physical conditioning, the formation and strengthening of habits, the attention to detail in understanding plays/concepts/physiology and the whole psychology of focusing energy to accomplish a singular goal or task, there are the other "soft" skills of leadership, sportsmanship, time management, problem solving, mental endurance and the ability to overcome setbacks and defeats.

Things that people deal with in the real world on a daily basis.

College sports are also a part of a free market and through time have generated interest and a serious following in the form of fans and alumni. Like any "good" business, they have a product that people want to engage with, either in person (at stadiums, arenas, pools, fields, etc.) or via TV. Supply and Demand economics. People are willing to pay to watch, and that money gets funneled back to the school to help it in a positive way.

That doesn't even include the very real sense of community and shared experiences that are important to humans as social beings.

Edited December 16, 2022 by MoyeCowbell

[IU Scott]

Tweet from Fran Frashilla

 I am hearing that some talented college teams are starting to crack because of NIL payments not being made on time, NIL promises not kept or jealousy among teammates. Not a value judgement on NIL. It’s just human nature. The “new normal

[MoyeCowbell]

30 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Why wouldn't they because they would still get the best players available. I am saying that the top players that we are looking talking about with the NIL are no longer in college. The rest of the best would still go to the top programs.  Say if the best players in college use to play for teams like Belmont or Davidson.  If those type of players are on UK and they are still a top team UK fans would still go. You can say that for IU or any other top teams. 

How do you explain AH being full during the first few years under Cream and still had the fan base behind them 

Players come and go but the constant is the name on the front of the jersey 

I can tell you who won all the championships since the early 70's but couldn't tell you their whole rosters.

Yes, Indiana is the constant that transcends players, but it's not built independently from them. They built it, over time. The Indiana that we know and love wouldn't be, if not for the Everett Deans, the Branch McCrackens, the Bill Garretts... Bellamy, the Van Arsdales, May, Benson through to Thomas, Alford, Oladipo and TJD. It was momentum and foundation built over years and years by players that were good.

IU, UK, UNC, Kansas, etc were able to build on their past success and parlay that into getting better recruits for the future.

Belmont or Davidson, Coastal Carolina or Vanderbilt didn't do that (for any number of reasons) but had they given the same institutional attention and resources (and possibly had some different breaks along the way) maybe they are listed as a Blue Blood and IU isn't.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that IU didn't just declare that it was a basketball school and everyone accepted it. The players made it happen.

[NotIThatLives]

16 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Why wouldn't they because they would still get the best players available. I am saying that the top players that we are looking talking about with the NIL are no longer in college. The rest of the best would still go to the top programs.  Say if the best players in college use to play for teams like Belmont or Davidson.  If those type of players are on UK and they are still a top team UK fans would still go. You can say that for IU or any other top teams. 

How do you explain AH being full during the first few years under Cream and still had the fan base behind them 

Players come and go but the constant is the name on the front of the jersey 

I can tell you who won all the championships since the early 70's but couldn't tell you their whole rosters.

Scott, I'm going to ask you to forget the past.  Thank God for it but forget it, just for this question.  

Now that IU athletics is set to bring in in excess of around 50 million over the athletic budget with this new tv deal, where should that money go?  

[IU Scott]

14 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Scott, I'm going to ask you to forget the past.  Thank God for it but forget it, just for this question.  

Now that IU athletics is set to bring in in excess of around 50 million over the athletic budget with this new tv deal, where should that money go?  

According to Dolson that money isn't as much as people think. It also isn't going to be that big ten first few years of the contract.  I am just upset that the thing I love is being ruined and my enjoyment from it is dwindling.  I just think that nobody is making these kids go to college and if they don't like the rules then go somewhere else.

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

According to Dolson that money isn't as much as people think. It also isn't going to be that big ten first few years of the contract.  I am just upset that the thing I love is being ruined and my enjoyment from it is dwindling.  I just think that nobody is making these kids go to college and if they don't like the rules then go somewhere else.

OK.  Let's call it an extra 10 million dollars per year.  Where should that money go?  New geology buildings?

[IU Scott]

Just now, NotIThatLives said:

OK.  Let's call it an extra 10 million dollars per year.  Where should that money go?  New geology buildings?

Maybe  upgrading the facilities in football since everyone think it is way behind the other schools. 

[NotIThatLives]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Maybe  upgrading the facilities in football since everyone think it is way behind the other schools. 

For sure.  Invest in the football facilities until every media outlet in the country has done a story about how we are the best in the country.  

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

For sure.  Invest in the football facilities until every media outlet in the country has done a story about how we are the best in the country.  

We will never agree on this topic so I will bowout. I think the old system is what college sports should be about and won't change my mind.  If these kids want to be paid go pro 

Edited December 16, 2022 by IU Scott

[IU Scott]

If they want free agency then the schools should be able to make trades just like they do in the pros.

[Steubenhoosier]

Why not make NIL $ performance based. Here's a "bonus pool" and depending on how you perform, your share will be in relationship to that performance. Isn't that kinda how real life works?

[Drroogh]

Y’all (20 years in GA) talk like NIL money comes from or is funneled through the school? That’s NOT the case!

[NotIThatLives]

27 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

We will never agree on this topic so I will blowout. I think the old system is what college sports should be about and won't change my mind.  If these kids want to be paid go pro 

I don't understand why you get so defensive.  The old system is now today's high school sports and it's never going back.  Maybe D3 sports should be your thing?

 

[mrflynn03]

1 minute ago, Drroogh said:

Y’all (20 years in GA) talk like NIL money comes from or is funneled through the school? That’s NOT the case!

I was just thinking this. NIL just gives athletes the freedom to make money like every other legal adult is able to do. Theirs just comes in the form of endorsement deals. 

Schools can still make their cheese and keep it. For now. 

[NotIThatLives]

3 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I was just thinking this. NIL just gives athletes the freedom to make money like every other legal adult is able to do. Theirs just comes in the form of endorsement deals. 

Schools can still make their cheese and keep it. For now. 

Which is what I have more of a problem with.  Especially when they send out emails asking for money.  Lol yeah right.  

[mrflynn03]

Just now, NotIThatLives said:

Which is what I have more of a problem with.  Especially when they send out emails asking for money.  Lol yeah right.  

Yeah. This Hoosiers for Good thing is confusing. 

[13th&Jackson]

24 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I was just thinking this. NIL just gives athletes the freedom to make money like every other legal adult is able to do. Theirs just comes in the form of endorsement deals. 

Schools can still make their cheese and keep it. For now. 

But that is unlikely to last without Congressional action and even that will need to pass Supreme Court scrutiny (which already slapped the NCAA once). There is a pending case that makes it clear where this is going. The athletes (and their lawyers) want revenue sharing:

The House v. NCAA case focuses on missed opportunities for college athletes to profit off their name, image, and likeness (NIL) prior to the NCAA’s rule change last July. It also seeks injunctive relief for current NIL policies that attorneys argue still limit the full scope of athletes’ publicity rights. 

“The interim NIL rules do not permit direct NIL payments to athletes from the NCAA, conferences, or schools,” the brief said. “In essence, after arguing for years that NIL compensation would be the death knell of college sports, Defendants have now embraced NIL compensation, but only insofar as it is paid for by third parties and not out of their own pocketbooks.” These third-party deals, the brief claims, “do not come close to restoring to college athletes the full value of their NILs.” 

“It’s not as though Defendants do not have the means to share with athletes the billions of dollars in broadcast revenues that their NILs help to generate for Defendants,” the brief adds. College players “play in stadiums and arenas that are filled with logos—endorsements of companies that compensate their colleges—and they compete on national television in uniforms and shoes licensed by their schools.”

[IU Scott]

31 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I don't understand why you get so defensive.  The old system is now today's high school sports and it's never going back.  Maybe D3 sports should be your thing?

 

Might be because the way things are headed a lot of of fans will be turned off by college sports.

[NotIThatLives]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Might be because the way things are headed a lot of of fans will be turned off by college sports.

I don't disagree.  The hey day in the 70's and even 80's looks amazing, pure for the most part.  Made this state legendary.  

Now going forward.  It's an arms race.  OSU will still out spend us in NIL but we can spend all of our extra money in facilities and all the other legal extras instead of 25.5 million of athletic money going towards flipping geology buildings.  

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I don't disagree.  The hey day in the 70's and even 80's looks amazing, pure for the most part.  Made this state legendary.  

Now going forward.  It's an arms race.  OSU will still out spend us in NIL but we can spend all of our extra money in facilities and all the other legal extras instead of 25.5 million of athletic money going towards flipping geology buildings.  

In the long run Indiana University or any other school is supposed to be an educational institution first 

[NotIThatLives]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

In the long run Indiana University or any other school is supposed to be an educational institution first 

They have plenty of money for those operations as well.  Which is another topic on how out of control the high ed academic side is, sitting on multi billion dollar endowments, still begging people for money, still taking tax breaks, and still taking huge amounts of tax payer money.  Waste, waste, waste, waste.  

[mrflynn03]

31 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

But that is unlikely to last without Congressional action and even that will need to pass Supreme Court scrutiny (which already slapped the NCAA once). There is a pending case that makes it clear where this is going. The athletes (and their lawyers) want revenue sharing:

The House v. NCAA case focuses on missed opportunities for college athletes to profit off their name, image, and likeness (NIL) prior to the NCAA’s rule change last July. It also seeks injunctive relief for current NIL policies that attorneys argue still limit the full scope of athletes’ publicity rights. 

“The interim NIL rules do not permit direct NIL payments to athletes from the NCAA, conferences, or schools,” the brief said. “In essence, after arguing for years that NIL compensation would be the death knell of college sports, Defendants have now embraced NIL compensation, but only insofar as it is paid for by third parties and not out of their own pocketbooks.” These third-party deals, the brief claims, “do not come close to restoring to college athletes the full value of their NILs.” 

“It’s not as though Defendants do not have the means to share with athletes the billions of dollars in broadcast revenues that their NILs help to generate for Defendants,” the brief adds. College players “play in stadiums and arenas that are filled with logos—endorsements of companies that compensate their colleges—and they compete on national television in uniforms and shoes licensed by their schools.”

Reads to me they left this NIL language intentionally ambiguous to get to the end result they really want. 

[NotIThatLives]

2 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Reads to me they left this NIL language intentionally ambiguous to get to the end result they really want. 

These third-party deals, the brief claims, “do not come close to restoring to college athletes the full value of their NILs.” It’s not as though Defendants do not have the means to share with athletes the billions of dollars in broadcast revenues."

Translation= it's eventually going to get blown up.